Dust can be deadly, causing everything from explosions, contamination, cancer, etc. I’ve read literally thousands of articles on how to stop it, prevent it, collect it, protect yourself from it, etc. In all of these readings, and as often as I’ve asked the questions – what size dust particles do saw blades produce, what size particles do protective breathing masks filter, what size particles cause the most dangerous threat to the lungs, and related issues – all remain unanswered. In virtually every woodworking magazine on the market today, thousands of dust collector manufacturers talk about dust particle size but NONE can tell you what size particles are hazardous, either from a fire hazard standpoint or from a lung contamination standpoint. Black lung disease is the most notorius lung affliction because so many miners have died, and the rate has started to increase again after a decade of decline, which could make one wonder if the newer methods of coal mining produces finer dust particles which breathing masks are unable to filter out. There so many saw blades on the market now that are capable of producing such fine cuts – and correspondingly fine dust particles – you need no further preparation before simply glueing them together. Obviously the finer the teeth, the finer the dust. Could it be that dust is one of those issues we do not want to hear about because our love of this craft turns our blind eye towards it, or is this one of those issues we will not face until, like black lung disease, many of us suffer needlessly. I’ve spent my life in the aviation industry around “big” airplanes and used methyl ethyl keytone and trichloroethane like bathing water. Little did I know that both can turn your liver to a prune and cause lung cancer; it has now been banned in most states. If there is someone out there who can intelligently discuss dust particle size, what size dust particles a saw blade produces, and what masks – by brand name or similar guidance – can provide the best protection, please share; I’m sure we’ll all learn a great deal. The FWW folks did a test of dust masks a few years back and I’m also wondering if FWW has considered updating their information, and if not, perhaps they could tell me in what issue that article appeared. Many thanks.
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Replies
While I'm sure some risks are there, risks are everywhere. Having previously known and grown up around people in this industry and hobby, they don't seem to me to have had any particularly shorter life spans than those of other trades and professions, and they lived in times when little thought was given to dust and toxins. As for myself, I try not to do the obvioulsy stupid stuff, and use a dust collection system or ventillation wherever I can. And I do think we can get to a point of over-thinking and paranoia over this stuff.
I believe some articles have been written in FWW but I cannot quote you the issues.
Cheers and luck.
Denny
We generate dust through more methods than just sawing. In my shop my worst dust source, and least controllable, is my 6" belt sander.
Then again how about the concentration of dust - the number of particles per cubic meter of air or whatever measure you might prefer? What concentration is toxic to what degree? What is flammable? What is explosive??
And what about the wood itself that is being cut or sanded? Walnut dust and shavings are known to be toxic to a considerable degree - one certainly cannot use it for garden mulch because it kills the plants so mulched - and other woods or the fine particles thereof are, I am sure, toxic in varying degrees.
A comprehensive study of ALL of these aspects of machining wood would be helpful to all concerned. Who is to do it? Who is to lay out the guidelines necessary for a study or studies that will touch on all aspects of the problem?
When we ask about particle size, concentration, material and perhaps even the microscopic particle shape, we have a formidable number of variables.
Ultimately I doubt there is much we can do about the size of wood particles we produce. We do have SOME control, however, over the amount and concentration of those particles in our shop air. I would much like to see a study that targets the in-air results of various machining systems (sawing, sanding, etc.) AND simultaneously reveals the efficacy of on-machine and in-air dust removal systems and on-face filtration systems.
That would still leave open the ultimate questions about toxicity but it would be a start.
Respectfully,
Pete
I can speak only for myself. I own and use two DC's I have two remote control switches. Every tool I have is connected except for my SCMS and mortising machine. I have hand saws including sanders which do not have dc attachments
I have two window fans which move air through my shop quite efficiently. when I'm using something where I do not have DC, I use the fan to move fresh air over me and the dust out. I purchased surgical masks at a local medical supply business. They are quite comfortable and fairly efficient.
IMHO, more than what I am doing personally is a little obsessive. I'll just have to take my chances. Right now, the most I worry about is that the sheets in the coffin will be too tight on my feet and toes. I just hate that.
This is a very interesting topic that I will shed some educational experience because I have a Masters Degree in Industrial Hygiene where I studied under one of the nation's top researchers in respiratory protection and I actually administered the respiratory fit testing for over 200 employees at the university. It was CRUCIAL that the employees were properly fitted because there were some MAJOR asbestos abatements going on, and as an ex-certified asbestos inspector I can tell you what it can do to you.
With that being said, you must remember that dust is something that exist everywhere and in many different forms. The majority of the dust produced in the woodshop is for the most part large particles which are usually non-respirable which is much less dangerous than the respirable dust. This is easy to tell because the majority of the time you can see the dust, or one good blowing of the nose and you see nature's defense system to dust work its wonders. The true question is what size dust is respirable which makes it able to get into your lungs producing different types of lungs problems. However, once this size is determined you must determine if the material inhaled has any threat to the human body that our natural defenses can't overcome. I'm not saying dust isn't a concern, but I think more attention should be paid right now to keeping your fingers together as opposed to getting things like black lung or asbestosis which are not only respirable, but also toxic type material that restricts our lungs from doing what they are supposed to do.
Also, I find it odd that many woodworkers profess to be doing themselves justice by slapping on a dust mask or donning a respirator. The problem with this is the fact that the user has not be fit tested for the respirator and especially not the dust mask. There are tons of particles that can be inhaled through dust mask because they don't provide the proper seal that is required for good respiratory protection. If you don't believe that try this simple test. Put a dust mask on and some safety glasses and run around your shop two times and tell me what you see. Be careful because once you start breathing hard you won't see anything because your safety glasses are fogged up because the dust mask isn't working. If air can get out you must remember that it can't get in too.
Even with respirators, I see many people wearing them that have beards and other facial hair that significantly decreases the effectiveness of the device. You rarely see woodworkers do positive or negative pressure test on their respirators to check for leaks and other problems associated with improper wear. Lastly, you normally find people over compensating for their lack of knowledge of respirators by over tightening them which is a huge no-no also.
In order for a respirator to do what it is supposed to do it MUST be married to the user by fit testing, proper cartridges being used and knowledge of how to wear it. Remember NIOSH has to certify all of the respirators so there is a certain level of reliability with them all. I don't know if the brands matter much, but MSA has some pretty good ones that we would wear on the asbestos sites.
Best thing to do is try to isolate your sources of dust and then change the air. Be careful in moving air that you don't make it worse by entraining it in your breathing zone. If you want me to provide some more technical type stuff on moving air and such let me know and I'll work up some calculations and provide you with more information on respirable particles. Good luck and breathe.... :)
BioHaz1906: First, thank you for your very informative response. As an asthma sufferer, naturally dust is very high on my "want to know more" list. In all I've read, particle size around one to two microns is very difficult for the natural function of the lungs to eliminate via the mucus and other natural cleansing capabilities. I certainly agree that not only dust particle size is a factor, but the toxic content of the dust is also very significant. When cutting black walnut to make clocks, even wearing a 3M dust mask wasn't enough to keep me from the terrible coughing and gagging after using a 60-tooth finish cut blade for the trim cuts. I've asked several blade manufacturers what particle size their saw blade produces but never did get an answer. I still am convinced that if you can filter out particle sized materials down to a certain dimension, then the amount of toxic substances in the dust would be not as significant. Stated differently, if I could filter ALL of the walnut dust out of the air, I would not be too concerned about the bad chemical it contains. The coal miners union produced a graph which compared particle size to what the lung was able to remove by their natural cleansing capabilities and it showed that one micron particles were going to stay in the lung, and from there on upwards in size, these would be expelled via the mucus and cough activities. You are absolutely correct about mask fit and how important it is. I buy the 3M masks for $150 and still have a few problems but I do ensure it fits about as well as any commercial mask is capable of. Thank you again for your response and any articles or information you can provide on this subject, please don't hesitate to make it available. I hope all who read this rudimentary treatise on dust at least give it some thought. Respectfully.
Waljay,
I'm a bit concerned that you had the mask on and still didn't get results. I think this is an example of not donning the respirator properly. Here are a few things to remember when donning your respirator even if you have not had a fit test that is highly recommended.
First thing you really need to do is be clean shaven or your goatee (sp??) needs to be neat and trim so that your facial hair does not interfere with the seal between your face and the mask. Next, you need to do positive and negative pressure test. This is done by taking your hand and covering where the cartridges are and breathing in extremely hard. Note where you feel air coming in and then tighten your mask accordingly. Then put you hand over the front of your mask and breathe out extremely hard again. Once again note anywhere you feel air going out and tighten accordingly. Remember not to overtighten and also adjust both sides not just one. After making both positive and negative adjustments redo the entire test and see if you feel the difference.
This simple test, a little personal hygiene and correct cartridge selection should eliminate just about all the respirable dust that is produced. Remember to clean your respirator properly and let it air dry so it won't dry rot.
Lastly, the 3m respirator for $150 is a bit pricey. The MSA that i'm speaking of I think is in the area of 30 dollars and like I said I have fit many people on it and they seem to like it because of the lightweight and form fit. For $150 I could outfit you in a full facemask or maybe even a cheap PAPR.
On a side note, you have me tempted to go into the shop and cut some wood and do some dust collection and mail it off to get the particles tested. If this is a HUGE topic of interest for many people here I may just do it and see what we get. Regardless, I think I'm going to checkout NIOSH and see what they have to say about the topic. I actually did some work/studied at the NIOSH in Morgantown, WV.
BioHaz1906:
Your advice is very much appreciated; thanks. Since you are an experienced researcher, your data will be much more meaningful than any I could certainly collect! I can't help thinking that someone actually knows all of this information but since woodworking is such a huge business, the data is closely guarded, in much the same manner that cigarette manufacturers knew the cancer risks from smoking, or asbestos manyfacturers knew the cancer risk of their insulation. We can protect ourselves from most dangers but first we have to know the danger. I applaud your efforts and would be most interested in your data. Respectfully.
Send me some contact info privately and we will discuss this more at length.
Waljay,
This is the second post of yours I've skipped. The reason is that you write in block paragraphs that a lot of people (me included) find difficult to read.
What do you say to hitting the "enter" key once in a while in order to break up the text into more readable chunks?
I'd like to read what you have to say. Make it not so hard and I will..
Thank you,
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
I just read your post again. As an asthma sufferer you may not be able to wear a half mask respirator without gasping for air. Personally I would visit my Doctor and get a pulmonary function test done and see what he says. He may point you to a positive pressure type mask.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I second that, but then again wearing a PAPR in the woodshop would be very interesting. I still stand by the notion of changing the air and simple dust collection. I think your biggest problem will be sanding not necessarily cutting and here is what you can do for that. Setup a sanding booth much like one would setup a spray booth. Enclose your sanding, don the respirator and go at it. This could be achieved with plastic and 2x4's in the corner of your shop.
Well said. I worked in a steam powerhouse for 30 years as a shift engineer and had to take the asbestos inspection course and become certified. That was money well spent. My Plant also made us get a physical that included a pulmonary function test before we were even allowed to be respirator trained and fitted. Ditto your MSA masks. I do not know about these days, but that is what the USN used to use.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
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