Why are miter saws so inefficient with dust collection? I built this base for my mitersaw with a trough and a 4″ dust collection port. A small diameter hose runs from the saw’s dust port into the trough, but even with the dust collector running, a lot of dust still gets in the air. Has anyone got a better solution? Or perhaps a better question is why haven’t manufacturers solved this porblem?
Chris @ www.flairwoodworks.com
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
– Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. – Albert Schweitzer
Replies
I've asked the same question.
The short answer is because the blade is so exposed and because it moves (for a sliding saw like your Makita). My LS1013 easily makes the most dust in my shop, and it really annoys me - having invested in a 2HP dust collector which captures 99% of the dust from my planer/thicknesser and my Euro slider.
Malcolm
This has worked surprisingly well for years. I have a shop vac hose connected on the other end. The cardboard lasts from an hour to a couple of months.
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Oh, that's so simple. Does it get in the way of any cuts, Knuts?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Only time it's been ineffective is when cutting wood so thick that the cardboard gets mushed. But anything up to 2" thick has not been a problem. I leave a section of hose connected and at times when I forget to attach the vac, I get dust streaming out of the hose.
Great!I'm going to try this. If I step down my dust extractor and attach it to the Makita port I'll get serious suck.Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Malcolm,Actually, my saw is the 1012 (12", no slide). I wonder if dust collection would be a lot better if there were a shroud directly behind the fence?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
The short answer is that you're asking your DC to draw air from the entire shop. It's trying, but because there's no enclosure around your SCMS, there's nowhere near enough air velocity to move the sawdust into the DC.
I built this enclosure for my LS1013 and it at least manages to contain most of the dust. It's sized and shaped to allow full travel in and out and swing 45* in either direction. It has a 4" gated DC port in the bottom with a foundation screen over it to keep the "chunks" out of the DC line. In use, there's noticeable air flow around the saw, but the area of the opening doesn't allow much velocity, so most of the dust collects on the bottom of the enclosure.
I'm working on a plan for something better (this one is a prototype) that will replace the saws dust bag with a small hose tied into the DC line. I'm not sure if it's possible to get really good effeciency, but I'll settle for decent containment. - lol
Dave
I have a similar box to the one that you built, much smaller though. I made my box with a few angled sections in the back so the back is roughly rounded (matching the side to side swing of the saw. The saw really sits in front of the box and the box kinda wraps around the rear of the saw. I also had the inlet in the bottom of the box. I realized that my saw ejects most of the sawdust at an upward angle. I moved the inlet to the top of my box added a HVAC round to rectangular fitting and got much better results. I do not have a slider so it was easy to position the inlet where the stream of dust is headed. I do get some accumulation in the bottom of the box, but for the most part I just leave it there. It is hooked to an 2hp Oneida Cyclone with a 6" pipe, it sucks good.
SAM
Chris I have tried to collect more of the saw dust from my miter saw without to much success, until recently I made the bench that it sits on into kind of a downdraft table, much like you have done, that didn't work all that well as allot of the dust still blew all over the place, then I built kind of a box around the saw out of scrap plywood, this works the best so far I would say that it collects about 50%-60% and the rest ends up around the saw at the end of the day I use a brush and sweep the dust to the slots I cut in the counter top behind the saw, hardly any dust gets on the bench on either side of the saw. Here are a few pics' I took. Its not perfect but it works better than what the saw came with as far as dust collection. I like Knuts idea with the cardboard shroud too, very simple and replacement parts would always be available.
Mike
Mike,I think that the sides and back are what is missing from my setup. The slots in your setup are reminiscent of the recent tablesaw dust collection article, regarding velocity and air flow. From what I recall from the article, slots, as opposed to an open space, creates increased velocity and a more powerful suction, making for more effective dust collection. And the sides and back focus the suction too.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Got one similar to Mike's but a bit wider and the top comes out all the way to the top of the handle when in the most up-right position. 4" dedicated DC line split so 2 1/2" is hooked directly to the SCMS port and another 2 1/2" hose comes up beside the saw blade on the left side.
How does it do? It catches about 75% either in the vac hoses or in the shroud box to be vacuumed with a Shop Vac when the day is done. I have tried about everything and this is about as good as it gets as I personally don't believe anyone is going to tame dust control completely on a miter or SCMS due to the nature of the beast.
Good luck..Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Chris
Glad we could give you some different ideas, I think if you put sides and a back on your set up it will work for you, I think the way you have your suction mounted directly underneath the saw will probably capture more sawdust than behind the saw like mine is. As for a top for your bench I was thinking after I built mine that 1/4" peg board might work quite well for a grill so to say, but the holes might be to small just a thought. I agree totally with the other posters here that if you can collect 75%-80% of the sawdust that your miter saw is throwing around your doing pretty good, I've spent quite a bit of spare time trying to get some better dust collection results from my miter saw, it's definitely one of the most dirty woodworking tools in my shop, now how about a freehand router set up and dust control, dust control the never ending job. Have a good day Chris.
Mike
festool's miter saw is the best I have of 4 others. Dewalt is the worst and delta is the best except festool. I don't have a Makita but I am ordering the new LS1016L. i have adapted a plastic hose connection like the cardboard piece to extend the suction closer to the blade. This works quite well. Whenever I buy tools I bring some wood with to test drive the tool in the store. Some stores won't let you do this as they expect you to buy based on claims by salesmen etc.. I was in Wood Carves Supply when I asked who made the best blade for a miter box. We went in the back shop and tested every blade in the store. We saved the wood samples and the owner left them out for others to see. This is what we need is to see for ourselves, without advertisers influence.
My Delta (out of production) has a stock "chute" pretty much identical to the cardboard version in the photo. I bet it picks up 40-50%. 4"outlet hood picks up a little bit. I have a 1/4" ply enclosure all around it. Doesn't collect so much as contains, and then bench brush as noted above. Dedicated noisy-as-heck shop vac. I wired the CMS and shop vac thru a switched outlet, so I am forced to turn on vac if I want to make sawdust.
In a previous life asked a personal favor/design from a dust engineering firm that did $500k and up dust systems designs for lumber reman plants (cad.dwg is buried here somewehre). Basic points were compilation of ideas discussed above: collect from the port; enclose to trap; floor-sweep type hood at the back of the saw; the blade throws a LOT under the saw frame in downward cut, so the downdraft design needs to be there; shop vac - "you must be kidding, right?" It works good enough that I never bothered to plumb to main DC.
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