By chance anyone built the top in Frid’s book #3? They look tricky, but it is a solution for me.
Don
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
Shameless bump here. Has no one here made a Dutch sliding table top before?
Don
I don't know.
What is a Dutch Table top?
I don't have any of Tage's books either.
Lee
Lee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Prospero has so screwed my account that the e-mail at the top will not work. If you need to e-mail me go through my website.
Lee,
A Dutch Table Top is a table that has two leafs under the main table top. They rest on angled stretchers that allow you to pull the leaves out to extend the table.
I have a customer that quit work to babysit her new grandaughter. She is going to start working at home, and wants to turn the dining room into an office, but her husband does not want to lose a big dining room table. My idea was to build a large writing desk with a Dutch Pullout to turn the desk into a table. Tage makes these things sound pretty straight forward to build, but I've learned he makes everything sound easier then they actually are. I figured to build a tabletop model, but was just wondering if anyone had suggestions or advice to offer.
Thanks for replying.
Don
Yeah, now I know what you're takilng about. It seems like I've seen the hardware for that leaf in Rockler or another of the major catalogs. Are you looking to make the mechanism yourself or are you looking for a cheaper alternative like purchased hardware?
LeeLee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Prospero has so screwed my account that the e-mail at the top will not work. If you need to e-mail me go through my website.
Lee,
Not sure we are thinking of the same thing. The stretchers are specific to the table, and I doubt something that would be premade. Rockler does have the stretchers for the drop in leaf tables. For a dutch table top, the leafs are always on the table. To look at the table while the leafs are closed, the table looks like it has a very thick top, or 2 stacked tops if there is any kind of edge treatment.
Don
I think what you are describing Don, is what everyone else knows as a draw-leaf table. If I'm reading you correctly, a typical configuration is a table about 44"square when closed with a leaf at either end about 14" to 17" wide which pulls out and rises as it pulls. The style was popular around the second world war, and most British examples are in oak with oak veneered plywood or blockboard for the top and leaves, usually stained pretty dark.
Anyway, I'm almost certain this is the pattern you're describing, and you'll find a first rate description of the construction in that trusty old standby, The Technique (US Dictionary) of Furniture Making by Ernest Joyce. Slainte.
Website
Edited 9/25/2003 7:10:00 PM ET by Sgian Dubh
Well, Holy Sh*t!!!
Richard, it's good to see you again. I'm crackin' another beer in your name.
How's life in the old country? You need to send me your new e-mail and phone # again.
Don here's what I was thinking about... http://www.selbyhardware.com/t5.htm ,top of the page. Obviously i have not built one of these...it's a bit country-ish for my style.
LeeLee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Prospero has so screwed my account that the e-mail at the top will not work. If you need to e-mail me go through my website.
Lee,
Nope, still don't think that's it. Here's a link to one now that I have a new name for it from Richard.
http://www.global-teak.com/teak-furniture/item_details/item/Lambourne%20Draw%20Leaf%20Table%20105x150-250cm.html
Don
My wife and I had a table similar to this once, except it expanded in width instead of length. It was an old rickety thing with a tressle base. The main top sort of floated vertically in some raceways, and the expanding leafs had pseudo out-riggers on them such that when they were drawn out, the main top floated down to rest on the outriggers... wish I had a picture or could draw one up for you.
good luck,
mike.
Gee Don, it appears to me that the hardware from Selby is designed to do exactly what a draw leaf table does.
I guess I'm missing something.
LeeLee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Prospero has so screwed my account that the e-mail at the top will not work. Use this one... [email protected] but be patient.
Lee,
You're right. I first read it to mean it was a hinge type mechanism where the leaf flipped up rather then slide out. Thank you for the link.
Don
I think what you linked us to, Lee will do a similar job to the traditional construction method.
Life in the old country means re-introducing myself to copious quantities of beer, and rugby, and rugby clubs on a Saturday afternoon---- and the World Cup is looming for practising mild forms of debauchery.-----Er, in that case, nothing's changed with me, ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha. Just a different geographical location.
New email address, etc., sent to you about ten minutes back. Now, I really need to go out for a pint. It is 9 pm here. So, if you'll excuse me. Slainte.Website
Well hi Richard. Good to see you participating again. You nailed it. Did a google search for draw leaf, and it came right up. Tage in his book #3 calls it a Dutch Table top. Have you built one? Tage makes em sound fairly simple and straight forward, but his pedestal buffetsideboard was described by him as straight forward also! hahaha, anything but!
Again, welcome back, and enjoy the change in climate, and don't break no bones playing that, god only understands what is going on game of rugby! ;^)
Don
I've built a few, Don. Basically you need a pair of sleepers or bearers that go under the leaf that are shaped to account for the necessary rise. The rise is specifically the thickness of the main top over the distance required to fully extend the leaf, i.e., if the rise is 3/4", then the sleepers need to be attached to the underside of the top at an appropriate angle to allow this over the extension distance.
The sleeper is screwed to the underside of the leaf, and runs in notches worked in the rail. The far end of the sleepers are held in place by a cross bar of timber fixed horizontally to the rails across the middle.
The image attached should illustrate the principle. There should be a blow up drawing, and the saw shot is the style used as an offcut table for a sliding table saw.
I've never heard of it called a Dutch top before though. It's just a plain old draw-leaf table to me, ha, ha. (Where the hell did that fancy, hifalutin, noncy name come from?) I'd certainly recommend drawing the thing out full-size to get the shape of the sleeper precisely plotted.
Slainte.Website
Richard,
Thanks for the suggestions and the pics. What was the deal with the table in the drawing? 2 legs, and the end skirts are different.
Was going to give you a link to Tage Frid's book where this is a Dutch Table Top, but the book doesn't appear to be available anymore. Frid's books use to be 1, 2 and 3. Now they're just 1 and 2.
Don
edit: here's the book from amazon, but it does say out of print, limited availability:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/091880440X/ref%3Dnosim/hallbook/104-5178241-0378304
Edited 9/28/2003 5:20:39 AM ET by Don C.
Don, the blown up drawing showed the construction of an offcut table for a sliding tablesaw. The second picture showed that table in use, attached to the saw, hence the legs only at one end because the other end is attached to te cast iron top.
It's an adaption of the draw-leaf principle to suit specific circumstances. There are no leaves on one side, and two leaves on the other. In the picture of the table in use attached to the saw the leaves are extended to catch offcuts from ripping operations. You can see a gap under the main top where the leaf sits when closed. Whether one or both leaves are extended depends on how far forward the sliding table is set during ripping operations.
If the saw is used for cross cutting, the leaves slide under the main top so that they are out of the way. Extended, as for ripping, they prevent the sliding table making its full forward travel. I'll have a wee look for Frid's book and the Dutch table reference in a library. I don't think I've ever read any of his published works. Slainte.Website
Richard,
Thanks for the clarification. Lost what you were referring to with the offcut in the pic covering the leafs.
Frid's makes for good reading, and he likes to tell stories which add to the interest. Example, he tells of a shop he worked in as a journeyman. The mastershop owner use to charge 1 krone for every cut a journeyman put in his bench. One Friday at pay time, one journeyman who this was his last day due to mandatory military time, told the master to take 1 krone for a cut. The master thanked him for his honesty. According to Frid though, the one cut was cutting the bench in half!
Don
Don
if you don't mind may I suggest a totally different track. Maybe what your client needs is a side or end table within which she could store a laptop computer. FWW profiled the making of one about two years ago. On the days that my wife works from home, her preferred work space is the kitchen table, which has much the same area as a dining table. In these days of wirelesss networking and cordless phones a home office is really defined by the storage of files and like records, rather than a desk per see. You could potentially build a range of dining room furniture that externally look like conventional side boards and end tables but have concealed within file drawers, a printer and the like.
just a thought
Ian
Ian,
I did suggest other options, but they are set on the one table, and they are not really interested in style. Their idea was to make a separate single top they could store in the garage. I talked em out of that one.
The buffethutch they want is exactly what you are referring to. The hutch will hold the china, but open it up, and it's the home office.
Thanks,
Don
Funny you should ask, Don.....I'm half way thru one right now. I have the legs and skirt boards cut and just took the clamps off parts for the top. I'm fortunate to own one now that I'm basing the new one on. I had a look at Frid's before I started and really does look pretty straight forward. I would definitely draw a full scale drawing of the leaf 'slides' first to determine the width of the centre stretcher as that will also determine your skirt width (I think 4" would be the minimum width). Mine is a little different in a couple of ways....i)slides are slightly different and don't require the centre stretcher (so I can narrow the skirts to 3" for more thigh room), ii)the main top is not one floating piece but 3 pieces with the outer 2 joined to the fixed middle piece with hinges (it's a country style piece with lots of 'character'). The hinged ends are lifted slightly when drawing out the extensions.....unfortunately I don't have a digital camera or I could attach some pics. Also due to the size of the room it's going in, I'm making the leaves rounded (something Frid does not recommend but I think will turn out OK). The legs are ash, skirt boards are maple and top will be butternut. Let me know if you need more info and I can try and sketch something to send to you.
Edited 9/30/2003 3:57:38 PM ET by woodonline
Darn, I wish you did have a digital. I'd love to see everything you have described put together. Sure sounds like you have put together an interesting project, and I'd like to see your none floating main top. I hadn't even thought of considering any other way then the doweled section. I also wondered about the recommendation against round leafs. Seems that the only drawback is with the round leafs sitting under the straight edges of a square or rectangular main top, but some innovative design characteristics could pull off an appealing form imo. I do understand the difficulties you would encounter if you tried pull outs on a round main table unless the leafs were made narrower then the main table, but even then, the symetric, two sided "key hole" look could be appealing also. All in all though, I lack the design experience to pull something like that off though without doing it with the trial and error method. That's not something to consider when the table is for a customer!
Please find someone with a digital. Where are you located?
Don
Regarding the rounded leaves, I'm planning to start with a regular rectangular leaf.....cut the curve I want....take the 'scrap' pieces from the corners and attach them to the underside of the main top. That way when the table's closed, it will still look like uniform thickness. I spent the afternoon fabricating and installing sliding dovetail battens on the underside of the leaf sections to help keep them flat. I hadn't thought of using the same system for extensions coming out the side as in Sgian's drawings.....could be very useful in some situations...basically a variation of Frid's design.
I'll see if I can borrow a camera from work on Monday. I'm in the middle of the bush in Eastern Ontario.
Here you go Don. As I mentioned, it's 'country' style with some nice patina and character to the pine. I've taken a few pics of the table and also included a couple of drawings of the details as well. As you can see, one of the main differences from Frid's design is that the runners are straight along the top, not tapered. This means that there is full support for the leaf and main top along their entire length. It also means that you don't need the centre 'bolster' to limit their travel. The notches in the runners position the leaf properly when open and closed. Hope this helps.
Woodline,
Table looks great. I like the old, distressed boards. What I don't get a good look at though is the leafs and their shape. Any chance you can snap another pic showing the round edge. Hopefully it will help seeing the finished look. Thanks.
Don
Don....I actually haven't got that far yet....the pics I posted are of the table that we currently use as our kitchen table. It's the one I'm basing the new one on. The first task when I get back from holidays is to cut the curves in the currently rectangular extensions. I'll see if I have a pic of the one I'm working on in it's current state.
Don
My dad has a plan and building instructions for one of these. I'm seeing him over the weekend and can copy them if you wish.
Ian
Wow Ian, that would be great! Thank you.
Don
OK. Send me your email address
Don
Sent the plans two nights ago, did you get them?
Ian
Ian,
Sent you an email. Thanks.
Don
I built one out of a woodsmith plan about ten years ago. The plans were excellent and easy to follow. Would be an easy table to midify to suit your taste. Check their website. I know all their backissues are available.
Thank you Tom. How has the table held up?
Don
The table has held up great. Has a few marks on the op but other than that it's a sturdy as the day it was finished.Tom
That's good to hear. I trying to sell this idea to the customer, and I don't want to give them something that will be sagging in 5 years.
Don
Don,
We had one for 25 years in the kitchen raising our three kids. Sagian is correct, they were popular back in the 40's-50's and, at least in NE, Hale was a popular maker using 'Rock Maple' from Maine (I assume 'rock maple' is hard maple). I once tried to refinish the piece with a belt sander and 60 grit...gave up after two hours...it was truly hard and sturdy. I bought the table and chairs for $100 bucks back in 74..and sold it two years ago for $100 to a young couple...
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled