Hello Knots Community
Looking for experience with eastern red cedar, a patchy white and red wood.
I have access to free rough cut 4/4 stock that has been air drying for two years. I am considering using it an outdoor furniture project. Has anybody got experience using this specie outdoors and does it need to be sealed?
Thanks for your help.
Edited 5/22/2006 6:12 am ET by RonT
Replies
Ron,
Eastern red cedar is very rot resistant. Used extensively for fence posts by farmers here in Va, where it grows like a weed.
Regards,
Ray Pine
Ron - I used old red cedar for an outdoor Adirondack chair and left it unfinished and it is still fine after 4 years, winter and summer in Massachusetts. I did not seal the ends as I did not know that I needed to. It is still fine. Weathers to a nice gray.
Thanks guys
You precisley answered my question. I'm going to go forward with the project using red cedar.
For the romantic, I'm building two modified adirondack chairs that will sit facing each other but offset on a glider frame. I think this will be a sharp project.
Thanks again.
Edited 5/23/2006 5:52 am ET by RonT
Edited 5/23/2006 5:55 am ET by RonT
Ralph4
Thanks for your feedback.
You said you didn't seal the endgrain because you didn't know you had to. Have you had any board checking because you didn't seal?
Thanks
I have had no board checking.
The red is the heart wood and will last for many years even in the ground as was mentioned for fence posts. The white is sap wood and is not very rot resistant in my experience. The sap wood of cedar fence posts (usually a thin outer band) doesn't last long.
Is this wood similar, same or related to what I call Juniper? If it is, it very resistant to rot. My grandfather put some large posts in the ground almost 100 years ago in western Nebraska and as far as I know, they are still sound.
Eastern red cedar is a species of juniper. Only slightly related to western red cedar. You were probably using eastern red cedar as it is the dominant juniper species in the midwestern areas.
Thanks, A botanist once told me that there were no true native cedars to the North American continent. For fifty some years, I've wondered about the accuracy of that statement.
The botanist was right. There are no true cedars native to North America. In fact, I seem to recall there are only 4 true cedars: the Atlas Cedar, The Himalayan Cedar, Cedar of Lebanon, and Deodar Cedar, all of which are old world species.
Cedar Trees.
Thank you, That solves a long, long question. Now if I could remember those old world species. Are you a botanist, yourself?
No I'm not a botanist, I'm a woodworker who is also interested in tree species. As I study trees more, I discover that their common names often have little to do with their true botanical classifications. Like a douglas 'fir'isn't a fir a at all, it is a false hemlock "pseudotsuga" (hemlock being "tsuga". I find that sort of thing interesting and tend to make an effort to learn the Latin names for the wood I use - it seems like a more accurate way to describe things. For instance, I have just learned that the West Coast Species of Western Red Cedar (thuja plicata) and Alaskan Yellow Cedar (chamaecyparus nootkatensis - the "Nootka Sound False Cypress would be a more precise name) both have relatives on the East coast of North America. There is the Western Red cedar relative of Northern White Cedar (thuja occidentalis) and the Alaskan relative is Atlantic White Cedar (chamaecyparus thyoides). I wonder at what point did they diverge from each other?
You should compile all this and write a book. I can see why you are interested in it.
Hey Sparrow, that was a fine post, I hope you will jump back in here and share some more of what know. Three post since 03, what are you holding back for? You obviously retain lots of nebulous information that won't earn you any income, but makes for good conversation.The cedar that started this thread is Juniperus Virginiana. Lots of the botanical names have the state where they were first observed, Virginia is pretty common. Didelphis Virginiana, for instance is the possum.Another of of the pseudo's that I like is Robinia Pseudoacacia, or Black Locust....... Seems I remember reading that the fellow who classified it was reminded of the acacia trees from the Savannas of Africa. Back to the red cedar, or juniper, Here is n the E. it is quite capable of growing fast under favorable conditions. It is not unusual to see 1/2" thick growth rings. But it is one of the oldest living trees E of the Rockies. It is also capable of growing out of a crack in a rock, and becoming one of the oldest around here, with 50 - 80 yr. per inch.I happened to have found and made something from the oldest one in Arkansas. It only has about 500 rings,* that is not old for out West, but from around here, the only thing older are the Cypress trees. Most of them were logged out about a hundred years ago. There are still a few around that are much older, but the oldest ones still standing were hollow, which conceals their true age, so they were left because they were deemed worthless. I still like to seek the company of these Old Giants, and try to imagine what it would have been like to have stood there among them before their healthier kin were all cut and taken away. I as a matter-of-fact plan to to place myself in the company of one of my favorite groves this weekend.* I met and made friends with a dendrochronologist, a tree-ring scientist, who has studied this species extensively through this region. He had a student who did his masters-thesis based on this tree that I found. It was 150 older than anything else around.Edit; When viewing a cross-section of this wood, you can see that it was only growing on one side. Fire probably killed the up-hill side, so the bark was missing for the last 400 years. For any wood to last that long unprotected for that long around here awesome.
Edited 5/26/2006 9:05 am by KeithNewton
I just finished some raised panel doors for my woodshop cabinets. I used maple for the rails and stiles, and something called "Spanish Cedar" for the panels. They milled up beautifully, exhibiting some wonderful grain patterns upon completion. If there are only 4 cedars, what is the true essence of "Spanish Cedar"???"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Well, Spanish Cedar is another misnamed cedar: its latin name is cedrela odonata, and it is actually a member of the mahogany family. It's a dry-season deciduous tree (it drops its leaves at the hottest and driest time of the year), not a conifer like a true cedar.Here is a link to s bit of information on this tree:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedrela
Hi sparrow. Thanks for posting that, I always like to get that kind of information. I have a suggestion. I think the name should be changed to "Nolickumlips" just as a warning to anyone working it that you should not lick your lips while working with it.
Thanks for the tip.
Don't know the ramifications of this dust but, it sounds like precaution is in order.
I'm going to have to plane all of my boards for this future project.
Ron, Just so you know, my last post was in reference to spanish cedar, not juniper.Every time I have used it, at some point I end up licking my lips, and the dust seems to find its way even around my mask, and I am here to tell you, it is bitter.
For those of you having used various "cedars" for furniture, how have you found it to be regarding durability? Western and eastern reds are pretty light woods and I've always wondered if it is sturdy enough?
I've used western red for shutters and it is very easy to work and stable. I use eastern red (since I'm right in the heart of Virginia) for kindling, and that stuff can have knotty, twisted grain. But it makes awesome kindling. I'd like to hear how it is to work given that attribute.
Jake
Jake,
I'd design for eastern red cedar as if it were white pine, strengthwise. Its main advantage outside of bug repellancy, is rot resistance. Not strength. It will be relatively weak, and somewhat brittle.
Where in Va are you? (I'm in Shenandoah Valley.)
Regards,
Ray Pine
no wonder it acts more like Mahogany than cedar!! thanks."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
I have twenty Eastern Red Cedar fence posts that I harvested from a friends property. They have been in the ground for 6 years and are still solid.
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