Hello all, and thanks for your advice in advance.
I am making a walnut breakfast bar as part of a kitchen project. It is about 9 feet long and 16″ wide. I have thickness planned down 6/4 rough walnet to about 1-1/4″ thick. I will be using two boards to make up the 16″, but one of them is slightly warped/twisted. Any advice on how to edge join these two pieces, and deal with the twist? Also, should I do anything as far as cross bracing on the underside to prevent long term warping along the width?
Thanks, Rick
Replies
Rick, If only the top is visable, you can use 'Pinch dogs'
to pull the edges to glue up. They leave small
footprints, so do the pinching on the under sides.
If there's noticable twist at one or two points,
by sawing a 'Cross kerf'(Under but not through,)
the twist area, you may coax the boards to comply.
After glueup is set, fill in the kerfs with glued
'Splines' (of matching wood) and plane or sand to level.
Steinmetz
Or as the saying goes,In glue and dust we place our trust:-)
Guys,
I showed my wife the 1-1/4 thick pieces and she said "way to thick". So today I planned them down to 7/8" thick ("just right"). The extra planing made the twist much less pronounced than it was at 1-1/4" thick. I think (help here with your opinions) I can clamp out the twist with bar clamps above and below the two 8" wide by 9' long pieces. The twist is maybe about 3/4" to 1" spread evenly the whole 9' length. Also, at one end I will be gluing a third piece about 2' long (making a short return if you will), my thought is this may help in keeping the board level.
I am also concerned on how to best prepared the edges of the pieces. They are of course not straight, and I am trying to decide if I should try to trim on my table saw, or use my 8' metal straight edge to guide my circular saw......
Thanks again, Rick
Clamped Sraight edge and hand held router with multible passes. If straight edge is too short, add additional straight material so as to overhang each end a few additional inches. Steinmetz.
Personally I think you're really inviting problems by using the twisted piece. My experience is that these problems never disappear - they always resurface somewhere. I'd definitely buy another piece of wood rather than try to compensate for the twist. Woodworking is SOOOO much easier when the wood is flat.
Personally I think you're really inviting problems by using the twisted piece. My experience is that these problems never disappear - they always resurface somewhere. I'd definitely buy another piece of wood rather than try to compensate for the twist. Woodworking is SOOOO much easier when the wood is flat.
I agree 1000% You can't be successful unless you start with straight, square stock. If you have to get another piece, so be it.
BTW, you can't take twist out of a board with a planer. You have to use a jointer, or use a jointing sled as described in FWW. Or use a hand plane.
Edited 3/6/2005 9:39 pm ET by BarryO
Sorry Rick but I don't know how to make anything out of twisted timber.
You have to get it straight,either with a jointer or a #7 hand plane.
If you don't have this kit,find a friendly shop that will straighten for you and you will be off like a robbers dog.
I doubt that you can get the twist out, how thick will the boards be if you joint the twist out? The only remedy I see is to use a different board or joint the board so the top is in plane.
mike
I agree with the others on the "twist". Get another board.
In terms of edge gluing, here's what I do. I do not own a jointer and probably will never get one. I have a very long and straight 2X4 that I use on the saw as a fence extender. I have a piece of hardboard glued on the underside, so this 2X4 is a sled. I place the board I want to straightline on this sled and run it through the saw (cutting oversize). I can then use the straight side to get a parallel side, and I then make a few passes taking off about 1/32nd to get a really clean cut. I use a Freud glue line rip blade and go from there straight to the glueup table.
I also use biscuits ... not for strength, but for alignment purposes. Put one every 6 to 8 inches and it'll make things ever so much easier. Remember to alternate your clamps so that you have some underneath and some on top.
I'd have glued the boards up when they were thicker and taken them down to final thickness as a finished piece. The result is better. But if you use these boards that have already been planed, be very careful to get the boards lined up so that the glue line doesn't need much work. That's why I think the biscuits will help. But it might also make sense to have some cauls ready so that you can use those as well.
John
How much twist are you taking about?
You should have removed the twist before planing, but people work around twist all the time.
In my early days of woodworking I built a small end table of pine. There were some twists in some boards that I edge-glued flat for the top. When I finished construction, I brought it upstairs from the basement and showed it off to some guests. I was so proud :-) About an hour after the guests left, the top cracked (it was so loud I heard it from another room!) A number of factors contributied to the self-destruction. The twist tension, added moisture in the air, and warmer temp upstairs... I "cried" then I laughed and made a new top of walnut veneered popular (stolen from some old furniture)...The table is still in use today... Mark
Guys,
Thanks again,
An update:
I used my Pro 8ft'r guide to run my router down the length of the boards. Edges came out quite well. I definitely want to use biscuits for alignment, and have access to a bunch of clamps.
I couldn't do my planing after glue up because the piece will be about 16" wide and I only have a 12-1/2" thickness planer.
Now back to the "Twist". I clamped down one end of the two boards together, then measured the height difference 9' away at the other end. Max is 3/16". It only took light pressure with my pinky to push down into alignment. This is much less than I originally guessed. Considering I will be fastening the 16" piece onto a 5" wide support, I think I will be OK. But then again, I am an amateur.......
Rick
If you can press the 'twist' out with hand pressure, you'll be able to clamp the two bits together safely. There's not much pressure involved. If you use buscuits to ensure alignment (although if the joint is good, you shouldn't need to), and make sure the glued-up boards are flat and true in the clamps, you'll be fine.
Clamp up dry first to make sure it looks OK and get the process right.
If the glued-up board still has a residual wind or twist, you'll be able to pull that out when you fix it in place. Allow for seasonal movement. You'll be sweet!
MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking
Good idea to make sure the biscuits are as deep as possible.
I made a table and put biscs too close to the surface,you can now see where the biscuits have expanded.
Thats not my pal Malc in Ch Ch?
Malcolm is right, but not in Christchurch. Go to http://www.macpherson.co.nz.New Zealand | New Thinking
Good grief,have lost most of my hair,tugging forelock.
plonker
New Zealand | New Thinking
Edited 3/8/2005 6:10 pm ET by kiwimac
Guys,
Again, good advice. I will definitely clamp up dry, and even though the joint looks good and even and tight, I think I will use biscuits (deep) to aid in alignment when I'm working with the glue.
KiwiMac: My wife and I took our honeymoon in Tasmania and New Zealand, a week each place (1993). Spent some time on the south island, Queenstown, Te Anu, Milford Sound, Christchurch. Can not say I have been to a more beautiful place in the world or met nicer, laid back, helpful people. We came back to the states wishing the atmosphere here was like it is there.....
Rick
Rick,
It's one of the advantages of having nobody here,the downside is,you don't get such a good range of tools.:-)
I live in Christchurch by the way.
If you're thinking about coming my way anytime soon, can you bring my new Minimax under and over?
New Zealand | New Thinking
If it's at Jacks or Samco,leave it to me :-)
Just across the road from Jacks - Gabbett. I fetched my SC3 slider myself, but won't have time for the P/T.New Zealand | New Thinking
Must have a look in there.
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