My school has just announced that they need to take down a large old elm tree that is over 100 years old. Despite valiant efforts to save it from Dutch elm disease, this was not possible and to spare the dozens of other healthy elms on the campus this big one must go! As you can imagine this tree was a focal point as it stood prominantly in front of a new international studies building that was constructed a few years. Is really quite a shame that this tree didn’t survive.
Anyway, a suggestion has been made that wood from this tree be saved and made into something for the univeristy. A small group of about a half dozen or so of us here are also amatuer/hobbyest woodworkers and we are thinking about asking for some of the lumber from this tree for project(s) that we might make also possibly to give back to the univeristy.
Our question is what are the properties of elm and is it worth our effort to try to secure some elm wood from this tree?
(Jon Arno – where are you?)
Replies
I cut down the old dead elm next to the barn. I had to split the trunk because it would not fit the saw mills. The wood had some nice suprises for color. The tree was spalted and had some interesting black and purple lines running through the growth rings. The wood is soft and hard so surfacing is difficult. Prone to end checking. A white cotton blanket type mold grew while in storage. Not the easiest to work with, has a rustic quality. There were quite a few knots in what I thought was a clear log. I have heard that it twists and warps when kiln drying. If you are lucky to get some color then it would be worth it, depends on how long it has been dead. The log may be insect damaged or just rotted inside. Handling large logs can be a challenge.
I am in the middle of making some furniture out of American elm (ulmus americana) from a tree that had to be removed due to a municpal library's expansion. The library comissioned me after what seemed to be a mountain of red tape and board meetings that I attended presenting plans.
Anyway, typically, elm is extremely difficult to dry. It will warp, twist, and move in ways that will drive you crazy. Someone that knows what they are doing needs to dry it, whether you air dry it or kiln dry it. I was very angry at the kiln operator that dried my elm, he did not leave enough weight on it. He made alot of firewood, unfortunately. The burls in the elm tree that I had were stunning and warranted the extra work and waste required due to the warpage ( I made alot of veneer instead of the all solid wood that I had hoped for).
The grain of elm also switches direction causing tearout and dulling of blades quickly, even though it isn't that hard of a wood. Internal stresses in the wood caused by its instability can be seen and felt when cutting the wood. All that said, I think it is a very attractive, ring-porous wood that is more elegant than oak, ash, etc. Takes a nice polished finish. I've also used Siberian elm to an extent and as far as I can see, they are similar.
Some people I've heard on this forum say that they think that elm smells like urine, but it smells like arse to me.
I also would like to add to my post that when we initially cut the elm wood, it had red spots all over, particularly concentrated around the burls. I had never seen this before. It looked similar in color to the red that's often on boxelder. These dots went away during the drying process. I would be curious if anyone had a guess on what this was. I would assume that it was a fungus of some sort and wandered if it had anything to do with the large burls on the tree.
About 25 years ago, Manitoba had a big outbreak of Dutch Elm Disease. Somebody decided to salvage all the logs they could & cut them up into 2" planks & sell them for the lumber. Nobody would buy them so they ended up at a provincial job training plant where I worked.
They had air dried for a few years so I sorted through them & rejected about 50% for knots, splitting, & other drying defects. The plan was to use the lumber for a run of simple diningroom chairs for some govt. project. The cutting loss was horrendous. What looked like a clear blank would reveal a large knot or other defect when bandsawn to final shape. We did finally get our batch of chairs, but I'm sure glad I hadn't bought that wood & planned to make a profit on it.
I'm sure Jon Arno will have more info if he posts, but one of elm's characteristics is that a new branch will start growing on the side of the trunk or a large limb. After a couple years, that branch will die & eventually the tree will grow over that spot. That's what gives you a clear plank that will have a knot inside that you won't see until you resaw it.
The grain is also pretty wild & can be hard to plane.
It can finish up quite nicely & make a good solid piece of furniture, just be sure you have lots to start with.
Paul
Jon will tell you that some elm can be very pretty,, I want to warn you of Elm's evil side.
Yes it will warp twist and dance around like a hootcie kootcie dancer. sanding it is an excercise in frustration since it tends to get fuzzy rather than smooth.. a scrapper is a nightmare since the grain likes to change direction as often as my wife changes her mind..
It will split on you when working it and then not split where you want it to.. It's a soft wood that works harder than White oak. (it doesn't evan burn very well giving off little heat and going out very easily) and expose it to any weather and it will quickly decay and turn into mush..
Ever wonder why there aren't any nice old chest of drawers or secrateries made out of Elm? I mean it's every where and it grows like a weed. Some wood just isn't worthsaving and in my humble opinion Elm is the leading candidate for that honor.
ps, splinters from Elm seem particularly nasty and prone to infection.. that plus it's tendancy to split or splinter at the wrong time and your chance of working with elm and escaping unharmed is very remote.
Brill, sorry to be getting to your thread so late (been out partying.)
You've gotten a lot of good, experience based feedback so far and I was tempted to just let the thread go until I ran into Frenchy's post. When it comes to elm, he's forever mumbling and groaning about the negative features of this wood...and it has a few. But it also has its virtues. I don't use it in large pieces, involving wide edge-glued panels, because it is exceptionally prone to distortion...But it's a very attractive wood for small accent pieces like clock cases, spice racks and small display cases where its instability is a little easier to manage.
Also, despite its moderately low density, American elm is a very rugged wood in the sense that it will take a lot of stress and abuse without failing. For this reason, it has been a favorite wood for chair seats and spindles. Historically, though, it hasn't seen a lot of use in other furniture applications, probably mostly because it is a difficult wood to work with hand tools. Elm has interlocked grain and this not only leads to its tendency to distort, but also makes it tricky to hand plane or otherwise bring down to a smooth surface with scrapers. It's a little more manageable with high speed power tools. In fact, as power tools came into common use, elm was used quite extensively in the early 20th century (along with ash and oak) to make a lot of the mixed species, cheap furniture seen in old Sears catalogs.
As for a potential project for the school, you might consider making a showpiece deacon's bench for the library...it would be a peferct wood for that purpose...but just don't go making any committments for large tables or huge case goods. And don't suggest anything that has an exterior application. Elm has very poor decay resistance.
Jon,
As I said, Elm can be a pretty wood (in the same way a cheap blonde in a short dress can be pretty) I am pleased that you agree with me about it's short comings.
I guess everybody needs to be a bigot about something,, Can I please dislike Elm as mine?
Frenchy, we agree on a lot of things...For instance, I like cheap blondes in short skirts, too.
I especially like cheap blondes in short skirts that show a lot of cleavage...
If they smile in my direction I can have a ship eatin' grin on my face for over a week.. (untill she who must be obeyed see's it and asks me what I'm thinking.......)
I got separated from my wife one time at a big ol' mall, and could NOT find her.
I spotted one of those short/cleavage types standing in front of a shop window, so I walked over and told her I'd lost my wife. I asked her if she could stand there and talk to me for a few minutes. She said, "O.K., I guess, but what will that do ?"
I replied that all our married life, every time I started talking to someone who looked like her, my wife showed up before I'd been able to say a dozen words...
I once told my wife it was silly for me to shop for a birthday present for her since she enjoys shopping and I'd just rather not. She took me up on the offer and said as we walked into the mall, "Remember, we're here to look at women's things." I asked her just exactly what she thought I did all those evenings I waited around for her at the mall.
>>"I especially like cheap blondes in short skirts that show a lot of cleavage..."<<
Now, that explains why you're up there in Minnesota...But I still can't understand why you've developed such an extreme hostility toward elm.
Edited 11/10/2003 8:11:54 AM ET by Jon Arno
What can I say, I'm this boards wood bigot! every group needs it's bigot and I've appointed myself as Elm wood bigot supreme..
PS go over to breaktime and read my piece about the Loons won..
Brill: I have been reading your post and the resulting responses with interest, as I have just finished using up 200 board feet of American (gray) Elm. I can't comment on any possible problems involved with drying this fine wood as I bought it kiln-dryed and jointed and planed to 15/16". I had this done by the mill to save me the work, not because I was trying to head off any problems. Some of the boards were 16" wide. They were dead flat and smooth and stayed that way. I never experienced any wood movement after I got them into my shop. This wood seems to be just as stable as any other wood I have used. Or, perhaps the mill I bought it from really knows how to dry wood!? Anyway, I used this elm mainly for a large bookcase that measures 84" x 84". I had absolutely no trouble sawing, sanding, staining or finishing it. I never had split number one. The remainder of the elm was made into a half dozen small tables with a 15" diameter round top. I give them away to my favorite people and everyone raves about the wonderful figure of the wood.
I will say that I have noticed a tendency for it to burn, similar to maple, but not as bad. It does have a barnyard smell if you get it hot with a dull tool, but the smell doesn't seem to linger. I did notice more slivers while working with elm.
I would recommend you find a good kiln operator and give it a shot.
By the way, elm is the least expensive hardwood listed on my mills price sheet.
Respecfully submitted, Art Heft
>>"...This wood seems to be just as stable as any other wood I have used."<<
Stay tuned, Art.
Kiln drying this wood does seem to help alot in terms of improving its stability in typical household environments...and it will stay flat as long as you keep it within a narrow humidity range...but elm can be a veritable hygrometer as it takes on or gives up moisture.
American elm's average volumetric shrinkage, green to ovendry, of 14.6% is about on a par with sugar maple (14.7%)...which is high, but not outrageous. On the other hand, its T/R ratio of 2.26 : 1 is pretty wicked (for example, sugar maple has a T/R of 2.07 and the more stable woods like cherry, at 1.92, are lower still)...But I suspect what really makes elm a mover & shaker is it's interlocked grain. The alternating direction of its grain forms bands on the radial surface that give it a very attractive (sapele-like), quartersawn, ribbon figure...but these bands, tugging in opposing directions as it shrinks, can make a board twist like a propeller...or, if you're lucky...just develop a corrugated surface across the grain.
Like you, I'm very fond of elm and think its complex, flatsawn figure is among the prettiest of our native hardwoods...but you really have to "read" each board, anticipate movement and pay special attention to the joinery in order to manage potential distortion.
Jon...here is my finishing schedule for the bookcase I built out of Elm:
Sand to 220, stain with Minwax Cherry, spray 3 coats of Zinsser quick-15. Its been a year now and everything looks like the day I completed it. Is it still possible I may have trouble here?
Art Heft
Jon
Does Rock Elm and Slippery Elm have the same properties as American Elm? Do they have the same interlocking grain and tendency to warp? I ask this because in this area all Elm that is sawn is just Elm regardless of which one it really is. Most of the large Elms left in this area are Rock Elm which did not seem to be hit by the blight very hard if at all. Maybe this is why some people seem to have different experiences and opions of Elms workability. Just a thought.
RichThe Professional Termite
Rich, all of the elms (and also their close cousin hackberry) have similar anatomy and interlocked grain. They differ in density and also in color, in that American elm is the softest and lightest colored of the bunch. It tends to be creamy white, with gray highlights in the heartwood. Hackberry and rock elm tend to have a slightly yellower, blondish cast. Rock elm is much denser, while hackberry is closer in density to American elm, but usually is a bit more coarse textured than American elm.
Red elm (AKA slippery elm) stands apart in a couple of important ways. It is only a little bit denser than American elm, but it has a darker, more reddish tan color. Also, its figure isn't quite as fine and intricate. It has the latewood bands of connected pores that give it the partridge feather appearance on the the flatsawn surface, as do all the elms...but it sometimes produces a second row of large, earlywood pores. This opens up the figure just a bit, making it slightly more hickory-like in gross (anatomical) appearance...It also experiences a little less volumetric shrinkage and is therefore a bit more stable...but it's definitely an elm...and the interlocked grain makes all of them especially susceptible to distortion.
Thanks Jon
My only experience with Elm has been using it rough so I never noticed any difference in color or grain pattern. All I remember is it was hard to nail and I didn't care to use any more. Also remember trying to split a bunch of it for firewood when a lot of them were being taken down from the Dutch Elm blight. Learned a few new words from that experience.The Professional Termite
Rich, elm is exceptionally difficult to split. Probably has something to do with it's interlocked grain. It has outstanding integrity in the sense that it stays together even when it is abused to the point that most heavier and otherwise stronger woods would break apart. For this reason (and despite its extremely poor decay resistance) it was a favorite wood for the ribbing in wooden warships. It could take the heavy pounding of cannon fire and not shatter.
Edited 11/10/2003 8:05:14 AM ET by Jon Arno
Art, when it comes to most finishing materials, they tend to slow up the exchange of moisture, but they really don't totally stop it. The good news, though, is that now that you've experienced a complete annual cycle, you've probably taken the wood to the typical extremes it will encounter in the environment it is in...So, if it hasn't experienced any distortion (and you don't change the environment), it sounds like you got away with it this time.
Also, I like your choice of finish. In my experience with American elm, you have two options: Either leave it blond, or if you decide to tint it, lean toward a stain (or preferably a dye) with warm reddish tones. If you try to take elm too dark, or too brown, it picks up a muddy look and the earlywood-latewood contrast becomes too sharp (as is also the case with hickory and ash.)
Jon...on a couple of the small tables I mentioned, I used minwax red mahogany stain. I used two applications and they turned out deeply colored. The wife loved them, probably because they closely matched the color of the throw rugs in one of the bathrooms.
On a slightly different subject - of the 200 bf of elm I bought, there were 3 or 4 boards that were a vivid lemon yellow color thruout. What do you suppose that was all about? They were totally unlike the rest of the load.
Art Heft
Art, I've seen American elm with occasional yellowish streaks, but the predominant heartwood highlights in this species are gray...or sometimes a light tan. I guess my first inclination would be to look at the wood's anatomy very closely. It might be some other species, possibly hackberry or rock elm, if the anatomy clearly identifies it as a member of the elm family. The pore patterns in woods belonging to this family are hard to mistake...Otherwise, it could even be black locust, if its anatomy isn't elm-like and the boards are almost twice as dense and heavy as the rest of the load. The mills sometimes aren't particularly fussy about sorting elm. A lot of it ends up in lifts of "mixed hardwood" typically used for crating and pallets. Depending upon where you're located, this could include any of the locusts, hickories ashes or oaks.
...Also, take a look at the end grain. If the unusual boards contain the pith or have an annual ring pattern suggesting that they came from near the center of the log (and if they are only slightly denser than the other boards) it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that it's just American elm with unusually strong pigmentation.
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