Can someone give me a recommendation for an entry-level but good quality chisel set? There are two I’ve been looking at: one is a Stanley Fat Max set for about $30 and the other is an Irwin set for about $35. I didn’t know if one of these or another set had a definitive advantage over the others. Also, what are the most important chisel sizes for someone just starting out?
Thanks, Brett
Replies
Either is fine, IMHO, for a "starter" set in your proce range. But after you bring them home, you need to learn to sharpen them. You might want to include a sharpening method in your budget. Probably the cheapest would be the sandpaper method of sharpening. You also need to decide if you're gonna take the plunge and learn how to do it freehand from the git-go, or invest in a guide.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Also, don't get hung up on spending a ton of money on a guide. You can sharpen very quickly and adequately with a cheap $12 guide from Woodcraft. No need to spend 50 bucks or more on a guide. The idea is to get it sharp, and get back to work.
If I were you, I'd take the Irwin's over the Stanley's. Stanley doesn't make very good tools anymore, imho.
As Mike said, learning to sharpen will be the key for you. A chisel is nothing more than a dull screwdriver until you put an edge on it. A dull tool is way more dangerous than a sharp one.
Jeff
I've got the Marples(?) from Home Depot. Wonderful set, and I can't believe I waited so long to pick it up. I haven't used higher end chisels, so I can't speak to the differences. This set has done everything I need. They seem to hold their edge for a reasonable amount of work and they sharpen up easily enough.
I use the Lee Valley Mark II guide to sharpen my chisels. Well worth the money imho. Speeds up the processing of sharpening and allows you to throw a micro-bevel on at the end with the turn of a knob. I think any guide would be better than nothing, although some might disagree with that statement.
Glen
"I haven't used higher end chisels, so I can't speak to the differences." Mostly the durability of the edge, I suspect. I have the Marples also, the edge dulls rather quickly, which supports results from a test FWW did awhile back (I think it was FWW). forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Woo-hoo, now I have ammunition for upgrading to a better set later on! :-) That's the problem when your only reference point is what you've got or nothing at all.Their lesser ability at holding an edge probably explains why the sharpen up so easily -- softer steel. Still better than nothing!Glen
The article I read evaluated the edge-holding when chopped mechanically into hard oak, and some of the comfort issues. I'll see if I can find it again.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Girl,
You are right about the durability of the edge - Marples do dull quicker than Two Cherries, for example. As Mel and others have indicated, this is not a terrible fault as they still work well and "more sharpening" is a relative thang. As a hobbyist I find that even the Marples edge will last me awhile.
Professionals might be frustrated at having to keep stropping at them or removing a nick (the metal of the Marples is a little on the soft side).
One other advantage of upper class chisels is the fit and finish. Boxwood or cocobolo handles with some kind of hand-friendly profile are a lot better to use than the slippery blue plastic with a mould-seam on it of the Marples - if one is chiselling for a while, at least.
Lataxe, who spoils hisself chisel-wise
Bobo,
go with the Irwins. They used to be Marples. Many woodworking schools use them. They are cheap and of very reasonable quality. They take a good edge. The difference between that set and an expensive set is that you'll have to sharpen (hone) yours a little more often. Actually, for a beginner, this is a good thing. It takes a while to learn to sharpen well, and nothing succeeds like practice, practice, practice.
Others advised getting a cheap honing jig. I advise not getting one at all. Sooner or later you will learn to sharpen by hand. Do it now. What's to lose. You will not hurt your Irwins.
You will find that there are lots of ways to sharpen. There is the use of sandpaper (called Scary Sharp). There is the use of oilstones, which is the oldest way. There are waterstones. These are very fast, but in my humble opinion, far too messy for my taste. There are diamond stones. These never wear out! You use water as a lubricant, and I hate to get water on my chisels and gouges, but that is personal taste. A lot of people are using diamond stones. Then there are ceramic stones. These (Spyderco) can be used with water, or dry. You clean them with Bon Ami and a scrubby! If you drop them, they will break. I use two small ones on my chip carving knives, and they do just fine.
So what do I recommend?
I recommend that you go get a book on sharpening. There are a number of them. YOu can go to a library or get one on Amazon. The two best are by Thomas Lie Nielsen and by Leonard Lee. The former is head of Lie Nielsen tools, and the latter is head of Lee Valley Tools. Study the books, and decide which method you want to use.
So what do I really recommend?
Go to
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
and then go to their page on sharpening. It takes you through about eight pages on how to use oilstones to sharpen your chisels. It is one of the best sharpening texts around, and it is FREE. They recommend just two stones: a Medium India stone, and a Hard Arkansas, and then they recommend stropping on plain leather.
Their system is VERY good. I use a small modification of it. First, you can substitute a Soft Arkansas or a #### stone for the Medium Norton. I use a ####. Any of those three will work as the first stone you use (that is, the coarsest one you use). The three are not that different. Finally when I strop, I put green aluminum oxide honing compound on my leather strop. I think it works better than a plain piece of leather. You can make your own strop out of an old belt. Just glue about a 12" piece to a piece of flat wood, and you have a strop. I put the smooth side up. Others put the rough side up.
So why do I like the oilstone approach?
1) I like the old ways, especially the ones that work.
2) I used to use sandpaper, and it works fine, but it is a pain to keep removing used-up sandpaper from glass and gluing a new piece on.
3) I like to put oil on my steel tools, not water. Many say that water will not rust them if you dry them off with a towel and then let them air dry. That may be true, but I am not ready to test that theory with my precious hand tools.
4) I use Norton honing oil, and it is not flammable, and it is safe to use in the kitchen, although it makes a lousy salad dressing. So the Norton oil is not really very messy. I keep a roll of paper towels around for when I sharpen.
5) The two stones and the strop really get my chisels and gouges (I am a carver) sharp enough to do very very well. I know I could get them sharper, but I don't feel the need. The stropping compound is a half a micron. The chisels glisten, and they cut like the wind.
To me sharpening is something that has to be done. I like to focus on making furniture and carvings, not on sharpening.
So why not use a honing jig? I have the Veritas jig. It is a pain to try to get them at the same place on each chisel each time you use it. Besides, once you get hooked on using a jig, you are more afraid to try it yourself. The website I told you about will show you how to do it by hand. It is not brain science. You can't do much damage. You will learn to do it right. So skip the jig, and learn to do it by hand now.
Best advice I can give - join a woodworking club if there is one close by. If not, find a local carpenter who is willing to give you a half hour lesson in sharpening by hand.
Any method of sharpening will work. The only two mistakes you can make are:
1) buying ceramic, diamond, water and diamond stones and sandpaper and a Tormek. Just buy one and do it. They all work.
2) thinking that the more time you spend sharpening, the quicker you will get to Heaven. Just get your tools sharp enough, and get on with the real work.
Finally, REALIZE that you will be better at sharpening the 50th time you do it than the first. There is a learning curve. Accept that. Don't get frustrated. As Nike says, just do it.
And really finally, if someone else gives you advice which is different than mine, take it. Remember, it really doesnt matter which method you use, just pick any one and practice practice practice.
By the way, a study by Fine Woodworking found that sandpaper puts the best edge on. The reason is obvious once you think about it. Sandpaper comes in more grits than any other method, so you can quickly step through a series of small steps and get a wildly sharp edge. But the difference between "wildly sharp" and sharp enough is not a useful thought to me.
If you want to try diamond stones, go to the DMT website and see their tutorial. It is very good. If you go to diamonds, then use DMT and stay away from the cheaper brands. I don't know of anyone who disagrees with that advice, and if I did know them, I'd ignore them.
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There is only one answer to that.
You can believe me.
I hope that helps.
If it does, please let me know.
If you find that anyone gives you too much advice, such as in very long messages, ignore them, except for mine.
Then make a list of the people who say that they agree with me and those who disagree with me. Keep both lists. The former list is a list of very very good woodworkers who have discriminating tastes and who are both highly skilled and very wise (and they are nice people too).
Keep the faith!
(the woodworking faith, that is)
Also, print out a copy of my message to you and keep it in your wallet. Every month take it out, and mail me all of the money that is in your wallet.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
I got the Irwin set at woodcraft and they are fine. I use the scary sharp method and have them sharp enough to shave the hair on my arm, and to me, thats good enough.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Thanks for all of the insight--much appreciated! Actually, I found a hardly used box set (7 chisels) for sale locally made by Bahco/Sandvik for $65 so does this sound like a good deal? Also, how does the quality of these stack up?
See attached photo...
Thanks, Brett
Sandviks are nice tools. Go for it.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
OK, I found the article. It was in FWW 139, so it's not super-current, but still I'm sure the information is useful. For those who have subscribed to the FWW.com site, click here for the on-line PDF version. In the subjective testing, he author "used all 17 chisels as I built a series of white oak desks, WesternCedar cabinets and 10 curly maple chairs. I cut dovetails, cleaned out mortises, corner-chiseled rabbet joints, pared end grain on tenon shoulders and even removed partially cured glue from panels." Several (3 maybe?) of the chisels were Japanese, and they fared well.
Then there was a mechanical test of the edges, both checking for Rockwell hardness, and using a consistent hammered-into-oak test to see how the edges wore, with a toughness ranking offered at the end.
I found the article very interesting. He was able to ferret out some chisels that were sold under different brands but made at the same factory. He discussed the types of handles, the comfort and balance of each (in his hand, of course) and then encouraged the reader to balance the results of the "toughness test" against the feel of the chisel, personal comfort and cost. A very practical approach!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/28/2007 12:00 pm by forestgirl
As a "starter set" why not buy better chisels, or older chisels as you need them, (as in one at a time)? If you buy a whole set of cheap chisels to start with, two things will happen, you will quickly be disappointed because they not only will not hold an edge, the edges will really degrade when used in hardwood, but you will also find that you use one or two sizes all the time and the other 4, 5 or 6 hardly at all. I think (depending on what you do) you can get by on a couple of sizes, and buy others when the need (and cash) arises. The Stanley, Buck Bros. et al. are really better suited to cutting hinge mortises in pine and other construction lumber. Believe me, I have Craftsman, Buck Bros., and Stanley chisels whose edges look more like a crosscut saw than a chisel. Even the Sorby's have edge durability issues. What I have done (and I am certainly not an authority) is start buying Lie-Nielsen chisels one at a time (I only have the 1/8" and the 3/8" because those are the ones I find myself using all the time). Next will be the 1/2". You might start with a 1/2" or 3/8" and find you can do 75% of what you need to do with one chisel. Don't overlook the old ones, which can be found cheaply by the hundreds at swap meets etc. I think that the woodworkers who really "need" all the sizes are few and far between, although a full set is nice to have. All I am saying, is I would rather have a few good chisels that a whole set of garbage.
I'll second that opinion. I recently broke my cheap 1/2" and just replaced it with a Lie-Nielsen ($50). It is so much sweeter of a tool, better performer than I had ever experienced, or really ever imagined prior to reading so much on this site. I am sure I will only use my remaining "beater" chisels for rough work, but any work on hardwoods or any time where details mattter I will reach for my new Lie-Nielsen.
On the other hand, I believe you need a few chisels that you don't mind beating up. If you don't have any, then I agree it makes sense to start with a basic set from your local hardware store.
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