Replies

1. 
   Floss | Jun 14, 2005 04:01am | #1

   Butch,

   Length X Width X Thickness/144 = # Board Feet

   If you have a board that is 5" wide and 10 ' long 12/4, the calculation would be:

   5" X 120" X 3" = 1800/144 = 12.5 board feet.

   If the guy you are buying from sells by the linear foot then that lumber is probably dimensioned s4s(surfaced 4 sides). Or at least straight line ripped and s2s(surfaced 2 sides), also called s2sr1e(surfaced 2 sides ripped 1 edge).

   If he is trying to sell you rough lumber by the linear foot I would try to find out what other yards are charging for similar material and compare prices.

   Sounds like you are wanting to buy finished material, s4s?

   J.P.

   http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
1. 
   SenorDorado | Jun 14, 2005 06:32am | #2

   Thanks J.P. Your assumption is correct, and s4s is what I got. I do understand the calculation for board foot and your example brushes the rust off. I went on a little further and figured out that there seems to be a ratio of 1.5 board feet per 1 linear foot of material. Is this a precise figure that can be used for a conversion when dealing with different dimensional lumber? In any rate wholesale material is much cheaper than retail especially when your dealing with the home improvement centers. Thanks again, work safely!
   Butch

1. 
   lwj2 | Jun 14, 2005 02:11pm | #3

   Your assumption is correct, and s4s is what I got. I do understand the calculation for board foot and your example brushes the rust off. I went on a little further and figured out that there seems to be a ratio of 1.5 board feet per 1 linear foot of material. Is this a precise figure that can be used for a conversion when dealing with different dimensional lumber?

   No, what you noticed is just happenstance. The ratio shifts with the width/thickness of the material.

   Borgs that deal with homeowners frequently find it easier to price things by the linear foot. Lumberyards that deal with pros use bf.Leon Jester

1. 
   SenorDorado | Jun 14, 2005 02:39pm | #4

   Thanks Leon With your comments in mind, when estimating a project it would be smart to figure out the amount of material in board feet instead of square feet or square inches using a common dimensional lumber (i.e. 1"x 8" x 8'). And continuing on with this thought you would still need to know the area in square feet to estimate the amount of finishing products that the project requires. What works best for you? Have you ever heard of a price rate for lumber notated with MLN? I'm thinking per thousand linear feet. Am I correct? Thanks and work safely! Butch

1. 
   lwj2 | Jun 14, 2005 05:59pm | #8

   Butch, I've seen quotes/prices in MBF, but not MLF or MLN.I deal with Steve Wall and on occasion, Plywood & Plastics, they're priced in BF except for plywood.When I buy from the borgs I convert to bf or from bf.Only thing I've seen quoted otherwise is flooring, that's been quoted in square feet.Leon Jester

2. 
   Floss | Jun 14, 2005 03:54pm | #5

   Butch,Whatever you are buying it would not be difficult to figure out a multiplier. If you are dealing with 3/4" material then,1 x 2 = .167 bf
   1 x 3 = .25 bf
   1 x 4 = .333 bf
   and so on...It is rather common to find s4s material for sale by the linear foot. I don't know of any retailer who sells s4s lumber any other way.So I imagine that MLN, 1000 lf, is the smallest amount your dealer will sell. Does that come with free delivery?J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com

   Edited 6/14/2005 8:55 am ET by j.p.

1. 
   SenorDorado | Jun 14, 2005 07:56pm | #9

   Thanks J.P.

        Yes they do offer free delivery, however they will not deliver to private residences because it usually involves ruffled feathers on the part of the local retail lumber yards.

    

                           Work safely!

                               Butch

2. 
   notDusty | Jun 14, 2005 05:13pm | #6

             BUTCH ,

                       Typically hardwoods are sold by random widths and sometimes in various random lengths . You will pay much more per foot when you buy s4s , they account for the milling time and waste to trim it . Most cabinet shops can't afford to give away that much money for s4s , so some either buy rough or s2s or s3s . With s3s many suppliers will take a nominal say 7% and add it to the net tally . So if you need to net 100 bf you may pay for 107 bf , and that will account for the part they ripped off to make one edge straight. The mills often tally the units of hardwoods before they get dried , so the suppliers  will loose a % before they touch it . This gets passed on to us the consumers at various levels , wholesale , retail . Suppliers will usually charge about 10 cents a linear foot for straight line ripping on top of the tally before they SLR , that is also a way some may charge. As far as estimating how much lumber you need for a job , you have to factor in a few details , such as what type of doors and drawer fronts and finished ends and so on . On an average job say raised panel doors a reasonable estimate can be 10 bf per door as a guide line . So if you were doing a small kitchen with 10 doors 100 bf will most likely do the entire job with some to spare.Then factor up or down for the particulars of each job.

                   hope this helps                    dusty

1. 
   wchips | Jun 14, 2005 05:42pm | #7

      I would like to add this ,Sometimes when you have your supplier straight line or rip 1 edge  you  can loose more than 7% sometimes 10 or 15%, depending on how mutch the board is bowed. I usually buy 1000 bf at a time to get a break in the price. Then i will hav them straight line only 10% or 100bf. I might add i usually get12' lenghts. When building cabinets most peces are short,so can joint one edge farley easy on your jointer. thus saving that 7 to15% you would lose if they straight lined it for you. You will lose  a small amount when you joint it but it will be far less than 7 to15%

                         Have a nice day Lee.

2. 
   SenorDorado | Jun 14, 2005 08:05pm | #10

   Thanks Dusty

    I'm trying to absorb as much as possible and any and all inputs are very beneficial. I would tend to say that a great advantage to all this would be to establish a good working relationship with a sawmill or lumber yard and then I would customize my needs.

    In my area there are very few hardwood yards, thus it becomes very difficult to obtain a project's needed materials.

    

                                     Work safely!

                                           Butch

    

3. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 18, 2005 10:40pm | #13

   I agree.. Time in the shop,, YOU PAY FOR.. In YOUR shop or there!

3. 
   frenchy | Jun 14, 2005 10:35pm | #11

   BUTCHNME2

         Ok you have a tiny portion of what you need to know.. what nobody seems to have mentioned is that if you intend to do this on a regular basis you'd better figure out a way to make a profit..  Something to carry you thru periods when you don't have anything sold and don't have anything ordered..

       The profit I speak of is over and above the normal profit..  X dollars of materia,l Y dollars of time, Z dollars of finishing materials, add a little for overhead and shop supplies,......

       For example if you order 165 bd. ft. of wood and use 100% of it you might still come up short.. mistakes happen, wood checks or warps,  etc.

        so you add a small percentage to it to cover your butt and if everything goes to plan you have extra wood around for projects to be completed during the slow periods..   If you stay busy then you will have extrainventory when things do slow down. (they always do) 

1. 
   SenorDorado | Jun 15, 2005 02:30am | #12

   Frenchy Point well taken,as I have a tendency to over estimate as well as over purchase. Some wholsalers will only sell in lots,so I'm told, and thus you have not only increased your inventory but also have spent more than you planned on. Thanks,Work safely! Butch

4. 
   PlaneWood | Jun 19, 2005 06:05am | #14

   When I did cabinet work, I bought all my lumber from a local millwright shop.  I would get FAS grade that was S2S to 3/4 & straight line ripped on one edge.  That means sanded on each side to 3/4" thickness with a straight line on one edge.  That kept me from having to deal with bowed lumber and by being finish sanded, saved me lots of prep time.  The time saved was worth far more than the extra milling fees.   Anyway, my costs were passed on to my customers.

   I've never bought common lumber priced by linear feet.  However I have bought Brazilian Rosewood by the linear inch!!!

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood