Replies

1. 
   esch5995 | Jul 10, 2021 08:12pm | #1

   Having no personal experience with Eucalyptus I immediately went to woodatabase.com out of curiosity and what I found is not very encouraging. While there are many different names applied to different varieties of eucalyptus trees the general assessment goes along these lines.

   In terms of mechanical/physical characteristics, Lyptus® has a very high shrinkage rate, and is likely to experience a fair amount of seasonal movement. Most varieties also are only moderately durable and suspect to insect damage.

   Lyptus is a trademarked variety of plantation grown eucalyptus grown in Brazil. Most other varieties seem to be most commonly in Australia, but other than a variety called Jarrah none seem particularly well suited to build outdoor furniture with and are subject to significant seasonal movement which combined with the breadboard construction of that table could be problematic.

   Again I have no personal experience with this wood, but there are several regulars here from down under that may be able to shed more light on it.

2. 
   user-7693465 | Jul 10, 2021 08:54pm | #2

   Writing from Melbourne, Australia. The only reasonable success I have had with garden furniture is along these lines:
   > Durable hardwood - teak is best; use oil if you want a warm colour - but it won't last long
   > Avoid impermeable unpigmented coatings like varnish; if the furniture is exposed the rain/hot sun cycle will break them down quickly
   > Easiest - allow the timber to weather to grey; scrub in spring with an acid cleaner as used for wooden boat decks; Then you can use "teak brightener" to bring back some warmer colour for a time. I think I read somewhere that the natural erosion rate for exposed hardwood is 1/4" per century - so your eucalyptus table should last some time. Fallen eucalyptus trees last for ever.
   > As an alternative you can (e.g. with jarrah, a handsome red timber) apply a heavily pigmented stain designed for exterior timber - which shields the coating from UV. But you will have to renew the coating regularly.

   Good luck

3. 
   rob_ss | Jul 10, 2021 09:12pm | #3

   Eucalyptus is not a great furniture wood. It has a lot of internal stress and cracks readily during drying. If this was sold as an outdoor table and your local laws permit it might be worth asking for a refund as the product is clearly not 'fit for the purpose for which it was sold'

1. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 11, 2021 08:45pm | #7

   Everyone is selling it now for outdoor furniture. Not just Lazy Boy but West Elm, World Market, etc.

   Just read about thinning marine varnish for Seal Coat. The commenter said they professionally sealed teak and to make sure it adheres by just using that one product. Said thin 1st coat of Epiphanes by 50% & 2nd coat by 20-25% and that’s the Seal Coat. Build up coats thinned by 10%.

   This is teak not eucalyptus but does seem like simpler is better and I see much more about Epiphanes on the site then the other product in the article mentioned in the post.
   Should I sand new table before applying 1st coat and between coats? Grit?
   And should I thin with Mineral Spirit or Denatured Alcohol?

   
1. 
   _mj_ | Jul 12, 2021 07:09am | #9

   Just because "everyone is selling it" does not make it any better for outdoor use than it is. Seal Coat (capitalized) is a brand of dewaxed shellac made by Zinsser and is not an outdoor finish.

   You can thin pretty much any finish to seal wood before applying finish coats. Use the solvent and sanding sequence recco'd on the can.

   IMO applying a film finish to wood that moves as much as you have described is a mistake, especially if it will live out in the weather.

1. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 12, 2021 10:39am | #11

   Film finish? Is that what thinning the marine varnish is? This is a screenshot of exactly what they said they did for oily teak. But teak is definitely much more stable. I apologize for my lack of knowledge but I have read everything I can. I did see another post from an experienced woodworker on here also having problems with the exact same table and cupping.

   
1. 
   esch5995 | Jul 12, 2021 11:18am | #12

   HeatherNC a film finish is anything that sits on top of the wood, varnish, polyurethane, shellac and lacquer are some of the most common. Oil finishes on the other hand penetrate the wood to varying degrees and provide protection from within.

2. 
   rob_ss | Jul 13, 2021 03:24am | #17

   Seconded - people are buying disposable furniture.
   Eucalytpus woods are somewhat resistant to decay, but that does not make them great outdoor choices.

2. 
   esch5995 | Jul 12, 2021 08:14am | #10

   HeatherNC, the retailers you use as examples of "everyone selling it" are retailers who deal with mostly imported products , well not so much with Lazy-Boy, but I would venture a guess this table was made overseas. Eucalyptus is not widely distributed in NA, which is where I assume you are, and hence, not well known to most of us, but the research is not favorable. Overseas manufacturers tend to work with woods easily available to them and cheap which it sounds like eucalyptus would be since it's characteristics limit its commercial markets. Just because some overseas manufacturers use it doesn't make it any better suited to the task at hand. I see you also posted on an old post by someone who appears to have the same table, experiencing the same problems, this combined with your own personal experience is in line with what Wood-database.com and others familiar with the wood have mentioned and should tell you something. So I would suggest you maintain reasonable expectations.

   Now as to your asking about the different finish options, again it's difficult to make firm recommendations regarding a wood you have never seen and finishing products that you have limited experience with. As for inferring what works on Teak, a notoriously oily wood to eucalyptus could be a stretch since, while Teak is oily it is also stable something eucalyptus is not. MJ's concerns about applying a film finish to a wood that moves as much as eucalyptus could be a problem since no film finish is 100% impenetrable and wood will move if it's so inclined cracking the finish leading to more movement.

   With absolutely no experience with eucalyptus but 40 years of working with wood my suggestion is to stick with oil finishes design for Teak and apply them frequently, very frequently. I also would keep the table out of direct sunlight as much as possible. If you can get a couple years out of this table I think you will have done the best you could.

   I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but it's the best I have.

   PS. I just took another look at the pics, they are a little out of focus, and noticed the breadboard end split. Again the pictures are vague, but it appears that poor design and construction methods are also working against you here. Breadboard, a board perpendicular to the main boards at the ends, ends are often used in table construction to help keep the table top flat but careful consideration and allowances must be made to allow for different rates of wood movement, wood moves more across the width rather than along the length. From the pictures this manufacturer made no allowances for this movement on top of using a wood that has more movement than typical and is know for splitting. In my opinion it's a recipe for disaster that cannot be avoided. If it was me I would try to get my money back. This table never had a chance.

1. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 12, 2021 01:48pm | #13

   Thank you for all the feedback. Sincerely. Can you clarify one thing for me, the film finish reference above was that in regard to what comes on the new table from the factory or thinning the marine varnish? They sent me a new table and told me to keep the old one so the new one is in a box in the garage until I have a good plan. The table and bench were over $2,000 when I bought.

   Also, oil doesn’t appear to work on Eucalyptus. It just stays sticky and won’t absorb. I read two posts about it on here specific to eucalyptus. One used Boiled Linsed and had to remove it and the other used Tung oil (exact same table) and had really bad cupping still. https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/eucalyptus-cupping-repair-with-tung-oil#comment-648114?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_campaign=comment_notification&utm_content=view

   I live in North Carolina. Honestly when I bought it I didn’t look at the wood. I have had some Lazy Boy furniture for 15 years and love it. It wasn’t cheap so didn’t think that I was taking a risk with something unknown. I didn’t think it was teak. I buy a lot of furniture from West Elm (part of Pottery Barn family).

   I feel pretty silly now and def won’t trust any brands without knowing. I bought it on Wayfair.

   Thank you for bearing with me on knowledge gap.

   More pics. The cupping has gotten so much worse since adding 2nd set of Sikkens a month ago. I can also stick my fingernail in the cracks going down the planks in the old table.

   
2. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 12, 2021 03:53pm | #14

   After your feedback I called Wayfair. Going to do the teak oil bc Wayfair said they will refund me the table if it cracks and cups again and I follow Lazy’s Boys recommendation of using that. When that happens I will make sure it is teak or white oak. It’s my understanding those are the best woods for outdoor tables. Thank you so soo much!

1. 
   esch5995 | Jul 12, 2021 07:43pm | #15

   You're welcome. I hope I'm wrong and you have better luck with the second table.

   FYI Teak would be my first choice if you do have to get another table, white oak is one of the best NA hardwoods for outdoor furniture, but a distant second to Teak and some of the other imported woods overall.

   Good Luck

2. 
   rob_ss | Jul 13, 2021 03:26am | #18

   Film finishes on outdoor products are just asking for work. They are the best way to preserve the wood but need replacing regularly as they will peel and crack.
   The pictures show internal stress issues as expected with this species.

4. 
   user-7693465 | Jul 10, 2021 10:42pm | #4

   Hi, There's good Eucalypt and not-so-good Eucalypt - a wide range of timbers. The desk in the photo is from recycled so-called Forest Red, with a Wormy Chestnut top. If you look them up you can find a fair guess at the species; certainty is difficult; but the common names give a reasonable idea of how the timber will work.

   So if you can get some good stuff it is worth trying

   Good luck

   
5. 
   esch5995 | Jul 10, 2021 11:40pm | #5

   HeatherNC I don't know if any of this has been helpful so far but I do want to address a question you asked towards the end of your post regarding the use of shellac as a finish and the answer is no. Shellac is not a suitable finish for outdoor furniture.

   There are still more members from Australia and New Zealand who may have more experience and ideas on how to treat the eucalyptus to better preserve it but it appears that most species of eucalyptus are not well suited to building with. I also think your table is made from the plantation grown wood from Brazil since the identify the forest where it was harvested.

1. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 11, 2021 09:05pm | #8

   Thank you for your help so won’t use the shellac for the new table. I found this info and would like to know if you agree. Here are some pictures of the old table that’s less than a year if it helps to see the problems I experienced with previous table.

   The commenter said they professionally sealed yacht exterior teak and to make sure it adheres to the oily wood by thinning it and using the marine varnish for Seal Coat (1st & 2nd coats). 1st coat of Epiphanes thinned by 50% & 2nd coat thinned by 20-25%. Build up coats thinned by 10%.

   This is for teak not eucalyptus but does seem like simpler is better and I see much more about Epiphanes on the site then the other product in the article mentioned in the post.
   Questions
   1) Should I sand new table before applying 1st coat and between coats? Grit?
   2) should I thin with Mineral Spirit or Denatured Alcohol?
   3) is my top coat undiluted? It sounded like that’s what he was saying bc he mentioned having a separate pint for top coat bc of curing as soon as the can is opened?

   
6. 
   fivebirdscustom | Jul 11, 2021 10:05am | #6

   I have had good success recently using System 3 ClearCoat epoxy sealer and Epiphanes Varnish as a top coat to protect some doors and gates recently.

   It seems incredibly durable and is actually a really beautiful natural looking finish.

7. 
   user-7693465 | Jul 12, 2021 07:47pm | #16

   This is a really interesting set of comments about the difficulty of protecting fully weather-exposed timber with an un-pigmented film coating. Two thoughts:
   1. This is all saying that getting a coat to last requires the highest standards of surface preparation and quality of coating, and regular maintenance - just as is needed on a yacht left on a mooring. So it may be worth reading up on what works on boats - in particular the coating must have good UV shielding, and epoxy coatings are not UV resistant.
   2. The timber parts of the table MUST, I think, be coated all over; otherwise moisture will get under the coating - and the timber will cup as the moisture content changes

   So this leaves as options either frequently maintained oil applications, or leaving the timber to weather. I am looking out (winter in Melbourne) at our ten-year old nicely weathered table and chairs - happy that all I need to do is scrub them once a year. And, that is what happens to teak decks on yachts; they are left without a coating and scrubbed to get the dirt off.

   But if you like your table to shine, you can tell me I am lazy!

   Good luck

1. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 13, 2021 11:27am | #22

   Hi user-7693465,
   Thank you so much for your help. I think a lot of people like me are going to wonder to this site and this will be a good post to refer them to. When I bought the table a year ago, and realized it wasn’t something traditionally sold here I couldn’t find any other tables made of it but when I looked this week mass furniture producers are using it a lot more.

   Is the eucalyptus from Australia good in sun and with small amounts of water? I have read that several places. They say it quickly breaks down in the sun and water must be quickly wiped up. With my table, small amounts of water would soak into the wood and looking at it even brand new I knew it would lead to problems. It quickly make low spots that turned into cracks & grain raising and then tiny black mold started growing in those spots. I have two covers for it so I could keep one from getting icky.

   I researched and read that Sikkens brand product Cetol Marine Natural Teak was a great boat sealer. However, I didn’t sand the factory finish off. I did it when it was brand new. I had not found this site at that time so like you mentioned the preparation wasn’t proper. I sanded and did 2 more coats with air sprayer 6 months later. It just didn’t want to dry with either coat and I chalked it up to the oiliness and what some said about this happening with teak and other oily boats. I didn’t thin it like many have said is standard practice when sealing oily outdoor woods.

   I am putting together the new table now and attached some pics bc I am curious if this is what yours looks like in Australia? Maybe they are accelerating growing on the farms in Brazil and it’s having a negative effect on it? The grains look a bit spongy.
   I probably didn’t get the good quality like you have.

   
8. 
   user-7693465 | Jul 13, 2021 04:18am | #19

   Durability of Eucalypts: It is clear that some poor eucalypt timber is being imported into the US. But if you assume that all eucalypts have poor resistance to decay, are of limited use in building, and are no good for furniture, then you are missing out on some interesting timber.

   To quote a CSIRO report:
   "Australian eucalypts are highly regarded for their durability, with the most durable species used for external applications such as posts, poles, general and heavy engineering construction, decking, and wharf and bridge piles. Farm foresters are growing eucalypt species to supply these and other markets for durable wood products."

   We have Victorian Ash and Tasmanian Oak floors in our houses; and the small furniture which my daughter and I build is of eucalypts and other Australian species.

   So it may be that companies importing furniture into the US will have to get a bit more picky about the species they use and the way it is grown and treated.

   Hope this makes sense

1. 
   HeatherNC | Jul 13, 2021 08:38am | #20

   Not sure if this changes anything but my Eucalyptus isn’t from Australia, it’s from a “sustainable tree farm” in Brazil. They provided a farm number. So this type of Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus Grandis/ Rose Gum/Flooded Gum) is also prone to bug problems.

2. 
   esch5995 | Jul 13, 2021 09:00am | #21

   I will not pretend to know more about one of your local species than you, but here in NA Black Locust is prized for fence posts, decking and similar outdoor uses yet I don't see many people building furniture out of it. I will agree, at least according to Wood-database.com, that there are one or two species of eucalyptus that would have faired better in this table.

3. 
   rob_ss | Jul 14, 2021 04:31am | #25

   Agree with Vic Ash as beautiful wood. I find it a fiddle to work with as tears out dreadfully if you get the plane going the wrong way.

9. 
   pantalones868 | Jul 13, 2021 07:21pm | #23

   It is very likely that the tree grew,was milled and the table was manufactured in a place that is 90% humidity on a good day. I've spent a fair amount of time in SE Asia and have built there. Often there is little or no attempt to season lumber, from tree to finished product can be sometimes be measured in hours! I have no experience with the variety of eucalyptus your table is made of. I do however have some experience with the blue gum that grows like 200 foot tall weeds all around here. It is the squirrelyest wood imaginable. To me, it's just too risky! Doing one off stuff there is always the
   possibility of failure. I can't see any reason to stack the deck against myself. With that said the most luck I've had is to coat the wood with Smiths two part epoxy. This is a wood resin based epoxy with a very slow dry time and will absorb into the wood. It goes on wetter than water.. not the sticky mess I've had with other epoxies I've tried.
   They are located in Richmond California and most likely Steve Smith will answer the phone. He is really knowledgeable and helpful. Over the epoxy I would use Tonkinois if you can find it. It builds faster than epiphanes but epiphanes is a fine product also.

10. 
    user-7693465 | Jul 14, 2021 03:01am | #24

    Hi HeatherNC Responding to your post here is a picture of our ten-year old grey weathered teak table and chairs in the middle of a Melbourne winter. They are in an open courtyard with full sun in summer. The deck they sit on is Blackbutt (Eucalyptus Pilularis - 16 years old) now coated (every four years or so) with a heavily pigmented stain for appearance but originally left to weather grey. I have had to replace a few pieces where borer damage in the tree had started rot.

    Hope this is helpful

    
11. 
    user-7693465 | Jul 14, 2021 06:43am | #26

    Continuing HeatherNC: Sorry didn't pick up your question about the performance of eucalypts when wetted and then exposed to sun: There are a number of timbers - including Blackbutt and Forest Red - which perform well as decking with either oiling or no protection. They can be out in the rain, and also stand up to full sun in the summer and last for a long time; obviously you have to leave a few mm gap between planks to allow for moisture content changes