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hi
I just finished this thing night before last- my initial foray into web design & programming. you can skip this over if you don’t have flash or a current browser.
http://redplumjam.com/index.html
sure it’s just an online portfolio, but it seems convenient & necessary.
if you’d be so kind as to pay special attention to the email link on the contact rpj page- can you send a message?
thanks a million.
alex
Replies
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Alex-
The mail link works. Specs on my environment: MSIE 5.00, Win98SE, Lan connection to T1.
As for the web site... well, I think you might want to make it a little more straight forward. If someone was not used to that type of web page, they might think it had no content (just a blank page with ovals). I also think the technology is distracting as opposed to enhancing the abilty to enjoy image of your fine work. I am impressed by your mastery of flash, but I don't think it will help sell furniture.
Just my opinion.
Peace.
-Rob
*My specs are Internet Explorer 6.00, Win98SE, Cable Modem.As for your web site I have to agree with Rob.Scott
*I'm kinda with the other guys.Generally when I come across a site that has a flash intro I skip the intro - If I can't I skip the site.Please understand that doesn't diminish the artistry of the site, it just means that there are a bunch of luddites like me who will move on without viewing.I also think that Flash does not always help in getting search engine listings, an important factor if it is intended to be a commercial site.Ian
*Im'm kinda with the other guys.Generally when I come across a site that has a flash intro I skip the intro - If I can't I skip the site.Please understand that doesn't diminish the artistry of the site, it just means that there are a bunch of luddites like me who will move on without viewing.I also think that Flash does not always help in getting search engine listings, an important factor if it is intended to be a commercial site.
*thanks, guys-criticisms both positive & negative welcome- nice point, robert on the contentlessness. I think it could flow better a little differently as well, but this was a design we had agreed on & i just wanted to get something up & running before splitting more random hairs. plus- hell, the learning curve making these thing can be a bit daunting.thanks also, i've found that the email link does work & that bee is out of my bonnet.as for flash sites & search engines, ian, you're right- flash is read as gobldy-guck by the crawlers. luckily all those pages you didn't care to see are imbedded in dreamweaver html files with all the title, description, & keyword meta tags you could shake a stick at. what good it'll do remains to be seen..anyhow- thanks again guys. let your luddite friends know that flash is fun.alex
*Alex --Have to agree with what's been said before -- also, if it's basically meant to be an online portfolio, are you sure you only want to market to people who have Netscape 6, etc.? You might want to have a look at Vincent Flanders' site -- it's at http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com and it's dedicated to teaching people about good design by looking at bad design. In particular, you might want to see what he has to say about "Mystery Meat Navigation." Also, check out Jakob Nielsen's site, http://www.useit.com - everything you ever wanted to know about web usability. Both of these guys are strongly promoting the idea that the function of a website is to provide information, not to be hard to get into and loaded with unneeded bells and whistles.Good luck,and I hope this helps.-- Virginia
*b From the Workshop of Ron BreseThe design of your furniture and artwork is in direct contrast to the technical and flashy way it is presented. I think you should try a more elegant way to lead viewers to what you would like for them to see.Ron
*thanks, virginia- how scathingly helpful .,. i checked out the sucky site: doesn't vincent seem a little over the top about all of this? (not that he doesn't have a great thing going)-any site with graphics, images, or that uses any form of new internet technology sucks. pretty cool axiom. as for some of the sucky sites to see, i didn't see any that sucked anywhere near as well as mine...ron- thanks for the thoughts. the flash movie schtick isn't going over well with the woodworkers, but seems not to raise too many hackles elsewhere. all of this give me fodder to make more-better-later.alex
*Alex --As a freelance business writer, I do a lot of corporate Web content, work with page designers, etc. You're on-target when you say (or, rather, imply) that different people seek different things from Web pages, online research, etc. Some want flashy, intriguing fun, others want pure information -- and fast!While the ideas expressed by reviewers here are important and useful, you're likely to get some of your best ideas by 1) identifying your target audience and 2) asking THEM what they think of your site. If you're interested in communicating to fellow woodworkers, you've come to the right place. On the other hand, if you want to use the site to make sales, you should identify a few of your best customers (those who buy without flinching) and a few of your tougher customers (even some who decided NOT to buy your work), and ask them what they think. You might even want to stand over their shoulders and watch/listen as they navigate your site (without prompting from you!). Initial, directly worded impressions are often much more valuable than after-the-fact, overly thought opinions.Anyway, my two-cents. Like I said, valuable feedback here, but who are you really trying to reach?David
*davidmost of my clients are young verging on middle aged professionals, live in and around austin, are computer savvy at least, or even do some kinda tech/ design work themselves (architects, interior designers, music producers). the rest of them exist in this nebulous way-too-rich state & do not seek artists or woodworkers, but have us recommended by word of mouth. i could just as well tell them i had a talking goose as a new website & would get the same bored response & the same check.good point on the fresh walk through with first time users.regardsalex
*Alex,Based on your description of your typical client, it sounds like your website is right on target. They're probably savvy enough to get past the intros, if they don't care, but tech-oriented enough to appreciate the work that went into creating the site. It may be a leap, but they might unconsciously figure that anyone willing to put that much work into creating a site will do the same with their furniture.FWIW, I browsed through your site and enjoyed it. If only I would take my own advice and improve my own (freelance writing) business site -- but most, if not all, of my clients come by word-of-mouth. In fact, unless they get a reference that they trust, they don't even bother.David
*davidalmost 100% ditto.
*I just went for a look. Once I realised what I was supposed to do ( I am a self confessed computer moron ) I found it very easy to use and fast. The only thing that I found I wanted was to be able to see the categories available 1st, then have the flash thingy working. To start with I was kind of wondering where I had been and was going. Hope what I just said made some sense, anyhow, bottom line is I kinda like it.
*thanks aj- the site was suppused to feel a bit nebulous & dreamlike with the milky pages, lack of sound track & sparse words. glad some of that effect found your good side. some things are more fun to learn & explore than navigate--although your point was not lost about wanting to know all the options before starting...thanks againalex
*After finding the main page I followed a link to what I thought might be an introduction, or perhaps a gallery. All I could see were four still images. No bells or whistles, and flashing things, no written information of any sort. I'm using MS Explorer, or whatever it's called, and it seems it can't 'read' the things others have here reported seeing. Whatever it is they see, I'm not able to see any of it. Slainte, RJ.
*sgiandang! if you didn't have flash you wouldn't have gotten that far...so maybe you oughtta mail me a punch in the nose. you may have wanted to anyway even if you saw the thing.perhaps you could try it once more & see what happens- do you think the screen froze up?my condolancesalexps- it just occurred to me that your expectations of whizzing & whirling images may have been built up a bit by earlier posters that couldn't bear to see the the text & images fading in & out like they were. they're otherwise stable & static. no big deal.
*Alex, That being the case it seems to work fine, and should be a good start for the site. I guess my expectations were rather built up by other posts, and I was expecting animation and whistles and flashes. Two comments. First I have Flash, and each time I moved from one section to the next, the 'Do I want to download.....?' box appeared. Can that be be eliminated after you've said No once? Second, the purpose of the ellipses might be emphasised by adding text describing what's behind them, if you see what I mean. Slainte, RJ.
*sgiancool. 2 things:first, the 'do you want to download?' thing is not my doing nor am i familiar with the phenomonon- so i'm not too sure how to correct for it. is it asking you to download flash? maybe an updated version or something? again, for being plagued by this, maybe a punch in the nose is in order.second, the ovals with no words are buttons you can press to go to other areas of the site. when you roll the mouse over the ovals, the image that pops up, followed by a description, is the section you will be taken to when the particular oval is pressed. i believe that virginia's 'mystery meat navigation' reference may apply to your experience on my humble site. see last sentence in above paragraph.oh, and one last thing (which makes it three, really)- the site is filled out, complete & done with tons of images of furniture & art.cheersalex
*Alex, I get asked each time I move to another section of your site if I want to download Micromedia Flash, V. 5. A big grey box comes up that prevents downloading of your page until I click on the wee No box. I already have that version of Flash. Quite a few sites I visit result in that specific 'download?' box coming up, usually on the home page or something, but once I've rejected the offer once, and moved on to other areas in the website I never see it again. It certainly slowed down my progress negotiating your site. I didn't realise before that the site was filled out, and I'm generally website savvy. I passed the arrow over each ellipses and an image appeared, which I thought was neat, but it didn't occur to me that clicking on the button opened up other pages with much more information until after reading your last message. Therefore my earlier suggestion of labelling each button still stands.No punches on the nose are necessary. If the feedback from all of us here helps you improve your website, then this forum has done one of its jobs admirably. Slainte, RJ.
*sgiani've asked around on some forums more knowlegable about such matters & maybe there's a way to clear that up.i'll keep you posted..thanks againalex
*Alex, a couple of things... I took another look around your site and didn't experience any of the technical issues reported by Sgian and others. Unfortunately, I'm using a borrowed computer and couldn't locate the Flash version (including release number and date) that has been loaded (probably revealing my lack of expertise in that area). I didn't bother to go outside of AOL 5.0's default browser (which I believe is Internet Explorer).Also, I spent a little more time looking at the gallery photos themselves, as opposed to the site, and just wanted to say that I definitely like redplumjam's work. Nice stuff...David
*aw shucks, david.the site was made with flash 5, but the actions are so basic that a flash 4 player would do just fine, i bet.i've poked around a bit asking why such a phenomenon (sgian's flash marketing attack) would occur & why would it happen repeatedly on my site. so far i've had one suggestion:that if sgian is using windows nt or 2k, the flash player he is using may actually belong somewhere else- that is it may be a holdover from an earlier OS he was using. according to this particular source, a new flash player should be downloaded so his current OS will have it's own flash player. something about the proprietary nature of this software...of course this may not fit sgian's particular situation, so the mystery may continue.as to why it happens on every page @rpj.com- it's because of the site architecture. most flash sites are made of one movie devided up into several individual scenes. this site is made of a bunch of separate flash movies pasted onto dreamweaver html pages. this way i can take advantage search engine crawlers by cramming the html pages full of keywords, descriptions, & title meta tags. anyhow, it still sucks for sgian. i'll keep searching around for more answers-it's been about a week since i posted the site...time to start a new one i guess. thanksalex
*Okay, I'll visit your site again, and let the download happen, and then I'll see. May take a day or two until I get back. I'm using Windows '98. It's not that bothersome really. I'm just as intrigued. Slainte, RJ.
*Alex, I decided to go and check it out right away. There seems to be no download available, I answered yes, I want to do the download 5 or 6 times in response to the question, but nothing happened, so I guess the box is a dead end, or inactive in some way. Anyway, it's still the same. Slainte, RJ, and maybe my computer is just quirky; most are!!
*sgiani'd like to qualify that my interest in your browser's operation is altruistic in nature- that i'd like you to be able to surf where you please without this evolutionary-holdover-pop-up-window guarding the gates. I don't suggest you go to all of this trouble just to see my (now old...) site- but just for the sake of smooth operation:why not try the download athttp://macromedia.com/downloads/I think it's a 2 minute ordeal with a 56k modem (1 minute download, 1 minute button pressing).if it isn't such a big deal then i'll quit pressing the matter. plus there's always a chance that it won't fix the problem or that the damned machine is just plain buggy!a genuine thanks for all the effortalex
*If you must use flash... then at least label the ovals that you click on. You should also enlarge them. You need to have at least a little information on the main page. Other than your name and Texas, someone may think that the page is still in the building process. I don't think that the flash is a bad idea, but just incorporate it into your site, don't make it your entire site. You can make your entry page much better. The amount of time it takes to make a regular site is nothing compared to what you've spent on the flash. Make two sites one for flash and one for html. And make your entry page a selection, not a "tough crap" if you don't have flash page. i would imagine that if you have two site one with flash and one without and a choice on your main page, with counters on each entry page, you'll see that the time spent on the flash was a waste. But the page does flow nice. People visit the internet to get information and shop and send mail, not in that order, and the people who survive on the internet do it the easiest and most clearly. good luck. Just giving you a few pointers.
*Also, How about instead of the images disapearing after the pointer is moved off the oval it stays up until you move over a different one.
*steve wargothanks for the visit. sorry it didn't strike you as a fun place to explore. i've noticed that the blank ovals give quite a few people the blind staggers initially- but- i've seen this watching people navigate it for the first time (an earlier suggestion)- that the amount of alienation or frustration a user feels in the first 5 seconds is in direct proportion to their level of delight when they figure it out. it also just takes that first time to 'get it', and then they 'get' the whole site. there seems to be a self-congratulatory feeling afterwords which may also affect how they percieve the rest of the site. now sure a cranky old woodworker won't stand for that kinda crap- and why should he? his IE2 browser & 14.4k modem are all one really needs to get to what's important on the net. but he's not our target market.also, flash is not really all that difficult or slow compared to html- a split site is a good idea, i'd just have to make time for it is all. as for traffic, i'm able to see how many people come to the site, percentages of how many pages are viewed, what the percentage is of visitors who look at the index/welcome page and split, how long the visitors stay in minutes, which browsers they use, and on and on. so far, with no search engine indexing yet, i like what i'm seeing.of course you're right about wasting my time. at least i'm wasting it learning something. nurturing my garden. y'know, voltaire.thanks alex
*I just checked this out:95.5% of visitors used internet explorer to see the site. 91% of those users had ie 5 or 6 with the flash plug in built in.power to the people.alex
*Alex, I'm already using Flash version 5. I can't see any reason why I would need to download it again. As before, maybe it's a quirk in my computer, but continually being asked if I want to download a version of a programme I already have does slow down my navigation of your site. And yes, I'm also a woodworker, so I'm not likely to be a buyer. Slainte, RJ.
*yeah, but i still like you.alex
*Beyond the whole website navigation/presentation debate...The work is some of the most interesting, inspired work that I've seen all year. If I ever come to Austin, I'd love to check out your stuff.BestChris GleasonGleason Tableworkswww.interestingfurniture.com (currently down for a couple days)
*christhanks for the kind words- i'll look up your site next week..alex
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