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I’m finishing a mahogany serving table and after stripping 3 layers of white and yellow paint. I’m now down to bear wood and have noticed several sap wood pieces. I’m planning to stain the wood a reddish/brown color with an oil base pigment stain. I was hoping for suggestions to even out the sapwood with the surrounding wood prior to applying the oil base stain.
I’ve read that applying an amber dye (water or alcohol soluble) on the entire piece should do the trick. Before I attempt that, can anyone make a suggestion if this is a good approach?
Thanks in advance,
Steve
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Steve,
My approach would be to use smoothing planes and scrapers in lieu of sanding. Assuming that this is Philipine Mahagony, I would use Mahogany grain filler and lightly sand after it has dried for 24 hours.
For the stain I would recommend Min Wax Wood Finish #225, which is an oil based stain and sealer (Red Mahogany). Brush it on fairly liberally working it into the grain, let stand for a few minutes, then rag it off using a clean cotton rag, such as an old T-shirt. I find that by working in the excess using a circular motion and then changing to a "new" rag going with the grain will even out the tone.
I would also recommend that you experiment a little on the bottom to get the look you want, then proceed to the top. You can always "fine tune" and no one will be the wiser. Hope this helps.
Dano
*b From the Workshop of Ron Bresesbaia the use of the dye you mentioned is the way to go to alleviate color contrast with sapwood, however using amber would be a questionable color choice considering it is mahogany you are coloring. I would use a color like Smooth and Simple American Walnut or Antique Cherry for a base dye color, then after that dries overwipe the piece with a good reddish brown oil pigmented stain. The dye will go a long ways toward alleviating the color difference and the oil pigmented stain should do the rest. This way you get two layers of color with good clarity. I have found that trying to accomplish this with one layer of oil based pigmented stain leaves the light colored area muddy looking.Ron
*Dano,After stripping the piece, I corrected many flaws in the top with my Stanley #5 & #4 and finished with sanding (my scraper tune up wasn't up to speed at the time). I'm still rather new to wood working, but I'm quite proud of my accomplishment. You mentioned Mahogany grain filler. Do you mean a pore filler that has been tinted with the oil stain I am using? Also, Min Wax red mahogany was my stain of choice. Good to hear it recommended.
*Steve,I prefer Behlen's Pore-O-Pac grain fillers, they make them in three colors; natural, Mahogany, and Walnut. I use their Pore-O-Pac solvent for thinning. Their natural filler does take stain very nicely, so that could be an approach to take. Though I don't add the stain to it, rather, if I use the natural on a piece that will be stained, the results are excellent. Also Homestead Finishing has grain fillers, though I have not had occasion to use any of them, they are highly recommended by others.Dano
*Mark,I've run into a number of problems using dye and I'm a little hesitant to use it on a large piece that was time consuming to prepare for finishing. On another project, I tried using transfast dye to darken a shaker style bench made of maple (one from a resent Popular wood working magazine. Don't fret - I've tackled a few from FWW - a settee with the cane reed, also the horizontal router table for making tenons - great tool! But I digress).I ended up with significant lap marks and blotching with the dye disolved in alcohol - the piece was first coated in a wash of shellac. I understand lap marks can occur easily with alcohol because of the quick drying time. I've since re-stripped the piece and tried using a water base solution. After pre-raising the grain, I've dyed, sanded, dyed again... Fustration has set in and a lot of hard work has resulted in a truely distressed looking piece of furnature. All about learning I guess.Is it possible to dilute the die in another solution that won't raise the grain, but provide you with a longer working time than alcohol? How about Miniral Spirits - it dries slower? What about boiled linseed oil - will the dye dilute properly?Thanks and sorry for the long winded email.Steve
*Dano,Good - I by chance have purchase Behlen's grain filler in natural. Haven't tried using it yet. I'll do a few samples, but this project sounds good as any to get started.Thanks,Steve
*Steve,Glad to be of some help, if this is Philipine Mahogany I personally would use Behlen's Mahogany filler. Sounds like we are on the same page. Just curious though; who's Mark?b ;) Think you posted an e-mail by mistake. Dano
*By way of introduction, water-based dye is my favorite method of coloring. I occasionally teach wood coloring classes."After pre-raising the grain, I've dyed, sanded, dyed again"Sounds like a lot of work, Steve. Why so much action? ;-)Wet the wood to raise it's grain. Barely sand it back flat, this is where a lot of people crash and burn. About four swipes of sandpaper should be the max, just enough to get it flat again. Apply the dye in a wet coat, and wipe up the puddles. Allow to dry, and proceed with whatever schedule you're using.I've double-dyed, but only for special effect. I have a slick fake ebony that uses a double dye coat.Dave
*Dave,I guess I don't have water base dyes down yet. I must be sanding to hard which caused the wood to raise again when I used the die. Therefore I had to sand again and touch up the piece. With time I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. Question, can you truely get as smooth as a finish with water base dies as you can with an oil base stain? It just seems that regardless of preparation, the water will lift the wood to some degree. thanks,Steve
*Dano,Not sure why I responded to someone named Mark. Whoever he is, he's missing out on a good topic.Steve
*"can you truely get as smooth"You bet. A common procedure is to sand the very first coat of finish level. This locks any fuzzies that escape pre-raising into place. Still be careful not to sand too aggressively, if you sand through you start the whole vicious cycle over.You have the right attitude, though. Practice does make, if not perfect, at least real good. ;-)Dave
*Uneven staining can result from wiping on water based dye stains, probably also from alcohol based. Now I prefer to spray. If wiping is necessary, flood the entire surface with lots of stain solution, so all absorbs the same amount, and then blot up excess. May have to dilute the stain so result not too dark. Also, some woods, especially pine and cherry, prone to uneven absorption of stain - blotching. Spraying applies an even, uniform coat over the entire surface, and will avoid blotching, unless the wet stain is then wiped.
hi, dano. am i getting name brands confused? is' behlen' the brand name for home depot products??? i do not think of the home depot brands of being of good quality, so i was wondering. i have a mahogany and cypress bench that i am about to finish, and i am trying to learn what products to use with it. thanks
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