Dear All,
OK, I’ve read all the instructions about not using a 3 1/2″ panel raising bit in a hand held router, what I am not sure about is why? I am cutting some Spanish Cedar which is very soft, and was curious out using the bit in a 3 1/2 HP PC router. Is this simply a preposterous idea or is it possible, but not recommended? I really have no idea, so before I get brave I thought that I would bounce it off of the experts. My skill level is ” contractor grade” in that I have ben in house construction for 20+ years, so I am used to pushing the envelope a bit, but routers are not something that I use all of the time so I am not sure what I can get away with.
Thanks,
John
Replies
John,
Even if you slow down the speed of the bit to the recommended 7k-8k range, the bit takes too much wood off with one pass. Using it handheld would be dangerous as the cutting edge is so large. It would have a tendancy to grab at the wood, potentially hurting you or the wood. When I use a large bit like this, I usually take 3 passes to take the wood off gradually. Even doing this handheld is dangerous.
If you don't have a router table, at least fix the router in place and use a simple wooden fence (a piece of wood clamped to the router base) to assist you in guiding the wood past the cutter. A much better solution would be to mount your router to a piece of plywood with a cuttout to fit your panel bit. Clamp a piece of wood to it for a fence and gradually raise the bit in successive passes.
Rod W.
Good to see you back Rod. Hows the shoulder?
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Don,
Still Painful, but I'm getting my range of motion back. U interested in taking a woodworking class w/ me? Maloof style rocker....In October.
Rod
Whereabouts?
Glad to hear you're getting the motion back. Have you been able to do any light stuff in the shop?
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Man, I don't know. That's an awful big chunk of steel spinning around for a hand held operation. Anything I can possibly do on the table, I do. And a 3 1/2 HP router is just that much more to control by hand. I'd think twice on this one, but that's just me. I never jumped 30 cars on a motorcycle either.
Dear Mike,
I whole heartedly agree. I did most of the smaller (5') pieces on the router table, but this one is a 20 footer ("That's a twenty footer...twenty five........three tons on him... JAWS) Sorry, the heat has me a bit. I ran the piece OK, but I wouldn't want to do it again. I wouldn't try it on a hardwood. Best,John
Didn't realize you were working on such a big piece. On the table would have been pretty scary too, if even possible. Well, now you have another story for the grandkids.
Edited 7/10/2006 9:18 pm ET by Mike_B
Hi Guys,
don't get socket in by him, see post 30553.1
Hilmar
Dear Himlar,
It's "sucked". :-)Best,John
I have to say I agree with this sage advice. This is the same idiot who wondered if stalling his jointer had something to do with wackin off a 1/4 inch at a time. You can all bang your heads and tell him what the proper and safe thing to do is and he will go right on ignoring you!!!! LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!
:) Chris
Idiot? Is that nice?? By the way, it was 5/16", not 1/4".Best,John
Do not ignore him... We have a responsibility to teach each other... if he and others choose not listen..well that is there choice.
Rich
If you disagree...go climb back in your cave and covet your saw dust!!
"Didn't realize you were working on such a big piece. On the table would have been pretty scary too"
I've got to believe that with proper setup this whould be a pretty straightforward task. Appropriate in-feed and out-feed support plus hold-downs would really reduce the pucker factor for me, or am I missing something?
The thing that scares me is that the OP keeps asking about really borderline procedures, then just goes ahead and ignores all the warnings and does it anyway. I just hope he'll be able to still post after the inevitable occurs!
He can always hold a pencil in his teeth and type.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
"I've got to believe that with proper setup this would be a pretty straightforward task. Appropriate in-feed and out-feed support plus hold-downs would really reduce the pucker factor for me, or am I missing something?"God bless you if you have 20 ft either side of your router table or shaper. And if you do, with "appropriate infeed/outfeed", you're probably right. But it sounds like Evil Knievel (a nickname is born) wasn't working in the "perfect shop" and just had to finish the job. He did it in two passes, which I wouldn't have had the guts to try, but if you read his description of the operation, it's not as insane as you may think.
"God bless you if you have 20 ft either side of your router table"
That's what the mobile base and garage door are for :-)
Thanks Mike!John
John,
Even if I had the guts to approch it, you would have to make so many light passes and be on edge nerve wise, I would think its not worth risking. I could see the router getting spun around with your hands holding it right into your left thigh, bit first. Be sure to post a pic- ah.
Do what the other post suggested. bore a hold in some scrap ply, attach router. Then screw down a piece of straight scrap, ply or whatever, on one end and clamp the other end or screw and be done in three passes, and nobody gets hurt.
There is alot of torque feedback on the router when you spin any size bit, never mind a panel raiser.
Good luck
Joe P
presumably this is the same cedar you straightened by taking 5/16" passes on your jointer?
they regulate the sale of handguns, but will sell tools to anyone....go figure...
Hey C!
No, this is actually a different project. Spanish Cedar this time. Most people mentioned a router table, which I have, but the piece that I had to machine is 2x9 x 20'. That is a bit much for me to handle by myself. For the record, I was able to do it with a hand held, but, I put the wood between me and the cutter, basically standing behind the piece. I was able to do it in two passes. I wouldn't want to do it again. That is a big piece of bit spinning around, and even with the router set to 8000 rpms, it was a bit creepy. Quite the work out as well. I will call this one as possible, but not recommended.Thanks,John"they regulate the sale of handguns, but will sell tools to anyone....go figure..." Well, with tools, I will probably only hurt myself! C'mon , I'm not THAT bad!
Edited 7/10/2006 11:03 pm ET by Jmartinsky
"For the record, I was able to do it with a hand held, but, I put the wood between me and the cutter, basically standing behind the piece. I was able to do it in two passes. I wouldn't want to do it again."Hey folks, just an FYI --
I've seen several replies recommending "against" since John posted that he "got-er-done" (see above). So, while it may not be the safest operation, it's done, over, mission accomplished -- on to the rest of the project. Sometimes you just have to finish the job.
Well I took the liberty of reading the rest of the posts. It sounds like you need to take some classes in wood working or at the very least do some serious reading & study in some very good wood working books.
So in line with this thought could some of the people here recommend some books that would help John. I'll start check out this URL
http://www.patwarner.com/ & get at least 1 of his books or CD- ROMS more if possible they are very good.
Lets hear it for router instruction books as well as for jointer & table-saw & planer etc.
Just remember John these books may well be the least expensive but most useful items you'll ever spend your money on. That is unless you like serious medical bills.
Edited 7/10/2006 6:26 pm by OB
Edited 7/10/2006 6:44 pm by OB
Spanish cedar or styrofoam, I wouldn't hand hold a panel raiser for anything. At least you read the instructions! Thats a very good start, now follow them for your own safety. Some instructions error on the safe side, these don't !!!!!!!!!!
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Dear Bruce,
Styrofoam might be a bit nasty, but, for my application, this seemed to work fine. You seem pretty insistent that what I have done is wrong. I don't know if I would classify is as "right" or "correct", but it got the job done, in a timely and clean manner. Now, by my own admission, it is not something I hope to have to repeat, nor would I be in any great hurry to try it on a hardwood, but for this material, it did a fine job. It IS a workout, however, and, this isn't bragging, it is just fact. For me, it seemed as though the larger bit would be easier to stall, at least in the cedar. What could be ugly is if it wanted to ride up on the material, that could be bad. Again, it showed no tendency to do that. I took two passes, at full depth, with no ill effects. I don't think there is any magic in it, it is just possible, that's all. Best,JohnOh, sure like I read instructions!!! :-)
Dangeeeeit. John, the man with a 5 horse shaper standing idle.....
Anyway , if you must do it, make the sound of Huey helicopter at the same, to get the full experience.You will get away with it , like everybody does, until things get out of hand, then you will be ROTATING OUT OF THERE.(;)Philip Marcou
Edited 7/11/2006 3:40 am by philip
Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump.......................
No it worked out, OK, but I am hoping not to have to ever do a repeat performance!Best,John
John,
Like many things, there's a good way to do it, and then there's other possibilities. You can get away with holding the router by hand - as long as you are aware of the dangers. After all the posts here, I'm pretty sure you are. Take a really light cut first time, then gradually step it up until you feel you are approaching the limit of good control.
If anything happens, you're not gonna sue me, are you?
DR
Dear Ring,
Sorry, I've been down a couple of days with a cold of some sort. No, I won't sue. What I did was to slow the router to 10,000 RPMs and I stood on the back side of the material, thereby pulling the router to myself. It was quite the workout, but it went fine. I wouldn't recommend it, but it is possible.Best,John
Hi John,
If it's a cut on the outside of a shape and the bit's pilot guided, you push anticlockwise.
It sounds as though you climb cut 20' with a large router bit. I may be wrong.
Anyway, I'd be running this one in a table for safety reasons, and take it in two or three passes if possible. The 10000rpm is still a bit too quick for the bit.
Cheers,
eddie
Dear Eddie,
The cut actually went well. I did not climb cut it, and was able to do it in two passes. The paperwork said not exceed 12,00RPM's so 10K seemed reasonable, plus it is as slow as that router will spin. The piece was simply too large for me to handle safely and comfortably on the router table. All in all it went well.Thanks,John
Anything is possible. I once saw a guy set up a 6" dado head in a shaper. Talk about "pucker factor"!! Anyway, this is one of those things I'm not sure I would try. Just way too much bit, way too much torque to try and control especially if things start to go wrong regardless of what kind of wood it is. I use a 3-1/2 hp PC almost everyday and when even a small bit grabs it is a jolt . I would imagine if a panel raiser grabbed, it would get out of control before you knew what was happening. Man, picture that router with that bit twisting out of your grip AT YOU and then hitting the floor and cord and whatever else on the way down. HOLY COW!!!! Another thought .....with a bit that large it doesn't leave a whole lot of the base of the router left to ride on the work piece.
If you do try it, man, be SUPER careful-seriously.
And make sure you set up the camcorder so the rest of us can watch.LOL
-Paul
Just for reference, I had a 3/4 dado bit in my 3.5hp router. I made a fixture and and was cutting half laps in construction 2x4's (pretty soft stuff) to hold heavier items on shelves in my shed. I was making about 4 passes so I wasn't realy taking that much with each cut. I don't know if I hit a knot or the bit started to get dull, or what, but the bit caught during a cut. It slammed up against the fixture so hard the it broke it. I have a bad shoulder and I thought I had re-dislocated it. LUCKILY I hung onto the router. That was a good "learning experience".
Magnus
"Remember, a bad carpenter always blames his tools" -Joe Conti-
Dear Vom,
That is quite a name! I thought about that and I have had straight bits bind when I am taking too big a cut, not fun at all. I have a couple of snapped bits as well. That is even less fun! What I ended up doing was clamping the piece down to three saw horses and then I stood on the backside of the peice and sort of pulled the router along. Not fun, but it got it done. If the darn thing bound on me, I was fully prepared to bail out, if I had to and let the router go, perhaps screaming like a little girl if it came to that! Once I was underway, my sense was that because of the larger bit, it seemed as though the torque was actually reduced. Now maybe that is only how it SEEMED because it went fine, but my sense was that if anything happened, I would have the mechanical advantage at that point. It is sort of like a 7 1/4" circular saw vs a 16" to look at them, you would swear the 16" would be a bear when it bound, but the truth is that the 7 1/4" is actually worse. Maybe I have it all wrong, but that is how it seemed. in any event, I think that was a one shot deal.Best,John
" was fully prepared to bail out, if I had to and let the router go, perhaps screaming like a little girl...." Sounds like a dead-man's (or dead-girl's) switch would have been a plus, ROFL!!! God Bless variable speed routers.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, but having three daughters, I know what they sound like and if that SOB let go, or if I had to bail out and let it go, I don't think that the whole episode would of been very "Macho". :-)Best,John
Hope you have god health insurance ,Also keep some zip lock bags handy as they work good to carry misc body parts to the ER.
Seriuosly . i would never consider using a router hand held with a large bit' IMHO they ought to be outlawed as you only have a half inch shank but thats just my opinon. Also a stock feeder holds the stock tight and does give a measure of protection to the operator. Very little wash board Chris
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