[Edit: if you want to cheat and skip to the answer, go to this post.}
Found this 3-way protractor hidden away today. Any info on what it’s called, who-all uses it and how it works would be appreciated!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Edited 2/7/2005 5:23 pm ET by forestgirl
Replies
That's a very interesting piece! If you get an answer please post it for our information.
Tom
A layover to catch meddlers? That's what my dad always told me when I asked questions like this.....
Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
I really have no idea BUT I did see a guy installing crown molding in a really fancy house with something sort of like that.. He use it for inside and outside corners..
Could be something like that?
What do the scales read when the various beams are at right angles to each other?
Is there a brand name on it?
Whew, when nobody responded at first, I thought maybe I was being incredibly dense! Guess not. They read 90* when perpendicular. Each scale goes from zero to 110* The protractors can be moved closer together or farther apart by about an inch in the middle and .5" on the end by the smallest one.
Maker's name is G.P. Pilling & Son, Co., Philadelphia. Pat'd 5/28/18. Maker's mark is an ampersand with a "P" in the top and an "S" in the bottom.
I just thought of something. Could it be used with a map? rather than drafting or WWing??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My thought was that it might be navigation related. Protractors are an important instrument for plotting vectors and triangulating courses. However, Pilling and sons were manufacturers of medical equipment. This could be one of those Victorian devices. They were using weird things to understand and deal with disease. Electricity and those torturous contraptions we've seen with dubious value. I'd be looking in the medical, dental area to identify your unusual item, it looks like it was adjustable for fitting, for what, I'm afraid to guess.This could be a device for measuring dental articulation.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Edited 2/2/2005 10:05 am ET by Hammer
Thanks, Hammer, for the info on Pilling, that's opens up some other possibilities and places to look. I think it's a little past the heart of the Victorian era though.
Just realized I didn't provide any scale in the picture -- when the item is set at zero degrees all the way across, and pushed to it's shortest length, it's 6.5" long.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Here are a couple of Google search strings that might take you farther. I saw one reference to a 1933 G. P. Pilling catalog.pilling medical -"anti pilling" (catalog OR catalogue)
("g pilling" OR "george pilling" OR "p pilling") medical (antique OR vintage)
Thanks, UD. Those look more promising than what I came up with.
The fact that the scales on this instrument go up to 110* make sense now that we know it's a medical device.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
yeah, the 110 degrees is what made me think of range of motion. I know ROM from the rehab I went through after shoulder surgery. My PT was KGB trained, too.
I hear ya on the shoulder surgery! Had mine done in 2001, and gained a whole new respect for these baseball pitchers that have rotator cuff surgery once, twice, three times in a career. Yikes!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My Wife is a Physical Therapist and said it looks a lot like some of the complex gauges bone surgons use. But I also think that orthodontics could be likely.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
I'm leaning toward orthopedic -- not sure they had orthodontia in 1918, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Good point.please excuse my spelling.
"please excuse my spelling" Kinda hard to mess up "good point" isn't it Mike? ROFL!! I'm not sure you have anything to excuse -- I don't remember seeing spelling mistakes in your posts. :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Pilling, George P., & Son, Philadelphia.
Edited 2/4/2005 10:53 pm ET by Corners
Corners -- thanks! Where'd you find that? I guess I'll have to refine my Googling skills, LOL. (I'm glad they don't "cure disease" using electricity much anymore.)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My earlier post about Victorian quackery was due to Pilling being known for these home remedy type devices. They also manufactured stethoscopes which was a new invention and profitable for their business. The reason I suggested dental articulation was due to seeing a contraption that bolted to a persons head and connected to the jaw. There may not have been orthodontic braces at the time but pulling teeth can result in a broken jaw. Something that was typical dentistry at the time. This is just a guess, maybe you should try it out on your head and see if it will measure your bite or jaw movement, also alignment from the front.It's hard for us to know how people thought back then. They definitely had some strange ideas. I remember my Great Grandmother (1866 - 1958), she wouldn't do anything before she consulted her Weegee board, very spooky. She was afraid of television, thought it would steal your mind, maybe she wasn't so wacky.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I firmly believe that it is a multi-angle protractor that protractorarianists use to make multi-angle protractors. Duh, anybody can see that.
"She was afraid of television" Really was pretty smart, wasn't she. Reminds me of a family down the country road from my granddaddy (after he retired and bought a gentleman's farm). This was in North Carolina in the '50's. The grandmother was in her 90's, sat on the front porch with her cane and would whup anyone who came to close. That's not the relevant point though -- she would not tolerate the idea of indoor plumbing. Yikes. Seven kids in that family, and they used an outhouse!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
If I live that long, I'm gonna do some whoopin too. Figure I'll grab a few 'jolies jeunes femmes' while I'm at it. Eventually, somebody has to clean the outhouse, I think I'll pass.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Reminds me of a comment by my grandma at a family reunion back in the late 50's. We were having a large picnic with barbeque's going and she says "modern people; eat outside and crap in the house! Harrumph!".
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
"eat outside and crap in the house!" good point!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
That is a bonafide thingamajig. What are the markings? Are they all in degrees?
Hi Tree, this is Forest <g>. See my reply to Uncle Dunc above for more info.
Have a Green Day.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'll take a stab at it.
My first guess was that it might be used by barrel makers, since the tool seems obviously used in measuring outside angles. FG says it's only 6.5" across, so the lengths are about the right size for barrel staves. But given how barrels are made, I suspect no cooper ever used such a tool.
I do not believe it would be used for navigation. I've navigated plenty and would never want such a tool--too complex and unwieldy.
It could be used for measuring compound corners for fitting trim, but again, most finish carpenters I know use a pencil and a compass and little else.
The hint that the maker produces medical instruments gives me the idea that the tool was used for measuring range of motion for joints, or perhaps for the hand. It could also be used for transfering some of these angles to medical appliances such as prosthetics.
Best bet would be to ask Ken Jennings.
Paul
Update --
I google'd on "range of motion" and angle and found that the device used to measure multiple range of motion angles is called multi-angle goniometers. Images of splints with integral goniometers leads me to think that I'm on the right track, especially if the leftmost piece of the tool (in the image) is something that could act like a tenon, set into a splint or other securing device.
FG--do the screws on the tool lock it at certain angles? If so, it could be something used with a splint or other appliance to set a wrist/hand at particular angles. Modern versions are multi-axial, but it would not be surprising for something from WW-I to be more primitive.
A cursory search on antique+goniometers did not shed any light on whether or not this guess is off-base.
I'm guessing that it would have been used by a boat-builder for making spars.
I think ...the aliens used it when they built the pyramids.;)
Tim, by golly, you win the prize!!!! That's absolutely my favorite answer, too funny!
BTW, "all", I searched eBay and found nothing like it. That means one of two things: it's a piece of junk and nobody cares, or it's very unusual. The last time I guessed (years ago), I guessed wrong. I had a sign from an old naval ship, wanted to get rid of it, and after a fruitless search, but it up for a BuyItNow for $20. Got severely yelled at by a guy who said he would have paid over $100, because there's only one of those for each ship built. Live and learn, as they say.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forest Girl,
Put it up on E-bay with a reserve of $500. See what kind of feedback you get. Cool thingy to hang up some where but I'm guessing you have plenty of those already! LOL (I remember the ox yoke)
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
"I remember the ox yoke" Too funny!! I'm not even sure where that thing is right now ("Help! I lost my ox yoke!!") I might have made Nick take it over to Eastern Washington with him to get rid of it. It's one of the things I kicked out of the garage when I expanded my shop space to the limits of the walls, LOL. All that's left now is a Chevy motor and 3 or 4 trannies, hiding (well, sort of) under the far end of the counters. Anyone need a 350 cu.in. motor??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have the brand my family registered when we all lived in Queenslad (the only state where they take duffing (rustling) seriously enough to register all of the brands and require EVERY stock movement, even one horse in a float to pony club, to have a police permit). My father hand made it, so couldn't throw it out. It is now a very useful poker in the fire and he like to see it when he visits. Won't brand another horse with it though now that we have freezing.
Now, if you had two ox yokes hanging from the ceiling, you could use them (the bows) to store things like lengths of dowel or electrical conduit that always get in the way.
"...you could use them (the bows) to store things..." Why didn't I think of that?! I just need to get another ox bow, hubby would be soooo happy, LOL. Hmmmmmmm, methinks not.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi ForestGirl... One of my many strange hobbies is patent research. Let's put an end to this discussion... What you have is covered by patent #1,268,002. It is titled 'Measuring Instrument', and invented by William M.Goodwin of Newark, NJ. His description for the patent is...'The object of this invention is to provide an instrument whereby to determine the degrees of angularity of the joints of a jointed member, as in the case of a finger of the human hand, and particularly the degreesof angularity of two neighboring joints in the same member, such instrument to be of simple construction and adjustable so as to be adapted for determining degrees of angularity in the joints of members whose parts or phalanges vary in length. ......... of particular value to physicians and others having occasion to determine what is the possible limit of flexation.... in a human finger or other jointed member.So... whoever guessed it was a medical device for determining the flexibility of finger joints wins the prize ( a gold-plated bent nail). Do you know how to download patents? Should I e-mail you directions to download them or should I snail-mail you a copy of this patent? SawdustSteve
Good work! I thought about that when FG posted the patent date, but I didn't even know where to start.Are the downloads PDF files? Is there some reason not to post the download directions here, or maybe a pointer to them?
PDF files, surely you jest. Our great gunnerment posts patent papers in TIFF format. For details...... (assuming Windows OS)1 Go to http://www.uspto.gov2 On the left side, click on 'Search'3 Scroll down and click on 'How to access full page images'4 Read the intro then click on the first option 'AlternaTIFF : http//http://www.alternatiff.com'5 Again read the intro then take option 1, 'Active-X control, Auto Install'. Click on <Click here to go to install page>6 Click on 'Auto Install' and follow directions This will install the viewer, when done, go back to the page in step 3.7 Click on 'Patent Number Search'8 Type in the patent number, no commas are needed.9 Note on this page 'Current U.S. Class'.This is a 'Dewey Decimal' system for patents. You can do a 'class search' later.10 Click on 'Images' at bottom of list. This will bring you to the actual patent.11 Use the 'greenish' arrows on the left of the screen to navigate through the pages of the patent. To print, use the printer icon,
NOT {control}-p.12 Now that you're started, use the arrows at the TOP of the page to go back to the 'pick a number, any number page. 13... Have fun SawdustSteve
Steve, you are an absolute Pal!! My hero. I never thought of checking the patent, silly me (wouldn't have know where, but probably could have Googled that part, right?).
OK, do they have a Starbucks in your part of the country? Do you have a special taste for chocolate or something? I definitely owe you a treat!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG... It is my pleasure to find the info for you.
SawdustSteve
Forest Girl,
I've got a 440 Dodge truck motor with one dead cylinder lying in repose in my machine shed. Maybe we should collaborate on the first dual engine dragster made out of wood!! LOL (or maybe just have a giant garage sale)
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Ahhhhh, I think I'll pass on the dragster idea. We sold the truck that motor came out of last year (yipeeeee!). The motor was totally rebuilt some time ago, and is hibernating in wait of a car. Come spring-time, I'm going to push for finding it a home. What can I say -- a hubby who's a pack-r....uhhhhh, collector, and a step-son who's a mechanic (a good one, though! thank heavens).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I would be willing to give you my 440 so your 350 wouldn't feel so lonely!!! LOL
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Ahhhhhh, that's OK. I'll buy it a teaddy bear, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Dear Forestgirl,
Would say it'd be a Universal Protractor, but not for machinists' use.
The machinist U.P. uses a dial gauge.
As a U.P, the one you show would not be limitted to any specific use. It can also be used to copy/transfer angles with the benefit of also reading them.
A dial U.P. is very handy. It is great for calibrating jigs, table-saw blade, jointer-fence, squares, and so forth at woodshops.
Best of all.
-mbl-
You wrote "hidden away." Where did you find it? Whose collection did it come from? What did they do for a living, or for hobbies? What did other members of their family do?
There may be some other hints you can give. This is an interesting challenge.
Lawrie
Hi Lawrie. Unfortunately, I don't have any of that info. I'm sure I got this at an estate auction years ago (used to be "a dealer" as they say), probably in a box o' stuff or a drawer in a desk, something like that. I've been out of that business for 4 years now, but once in awhile I'll run across something I never paid any attention, languishing in a drawer somewhere.
There were several estates that involved doctors or dentists, so I'd guess that's where it came from.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Normally, such wierd old tools are explained by the caveat that they must be leatherworking tools.
Methinks this is not the case here.
A quick search of Dogpile revealed this...
http://www.philadelphiabuildings.org/pab/app/pj_display.cfm/49547
Pilling and son was a patternmaking establishment, and this looks like exactly like an instrument that would be used in patternmaking,
Now you gotta fill in the rest of the story....where did ya obtain it from.....
Eric in Calgary.....
I shouldabin a bit more diligent..... seems like Pilling and son also had a surgical catalogue kicking around circa 1932. This coulda been a wierd DIY orthopeadic surgeons device as well.....pre implants.
At least it seems like it's definitely not a leather working tool....
Eric
in Calgary
Actually, the pattern-making angle (so-to-speak) is intriguing. You say the surgical catalog was "kicking around" in 1932? I take it the pattern making business went back before that, what with the building reference being 1895-1901. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The website to Pilling medical instruments is
http://www.rusch-pilling.fr/index.php?new_session=1&lang=en
Try contacting them, it may be of interest to them, especially if it really is from the early part of the century.
It's not for navigation. All of the navigation tools I've ever used are much simpler than that.
Is the patent number on it? If so, look up the patent. http://www.uspto.gov
Wayne, you must have missed Steve's post above. He has solved the mystery. See this link.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Clever idea, checking the patent number.
Instead of a golden bent nail, send me a case of henry's. You can't buy it out here in Joisey!
You're right, I did miss the other post. I did not see it until after my reply was completely composed and posted. Anyway, I'm glad you got your answer.
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