I made a door from reclaimed Cypress,
I used a lot of biscuits and Gorilla glue ……all went well, until about a week after, when a bow appeared.
(I will try some pictures later)
so maybe the boards were not alternated properly? I thought I was careful !
I want to hang the door to see if the bow is too much to close the door, I assume the bow should face the stops. or should I try it the other way ?
maybe I should lay the door flat ,clamp it, and fasten something across the boards to force the bow out……or, is this now just a picnic tabletop ……
Replies
How thick is the door? Is it just a slab, or does it have raised panels? How wide were the boards that you glued together?
Solid slab doors are tricky.
--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
6" X 1-5/8 " its a slab...with V-grooves on one side........No raised panels...
Was the door stored leaning up against a wall? If so try storing it the same length of time flipped so the bow is out, it may bow back towards being flat. How bad is the bow? A bowed door can be swung but you'll have to fuss with the stop, either bend it in place or use a wider one and then scribe to fit the door. Half shimming the top and bottom hinges towards the barrel may help bring the latch into the strike properly. If the hinges aren't mortised yet, you could offset the mortises a heavy shy so that the barrels are closer to being plumb and straight.
I have done nothing with it except flip it around ..about a 1/2'bow across the 42 "...no work on the jambs ...no hinges....I was upset when I noticed it last year., so I postponed doing anything with it till better weather .......
MD
Are you saying that the bow is horizontal? That's what I think I'm reading. Your 42" makes me think that.
If so is it possible that the V-groves had something to do with it, just taking some wild guesses.
Doug
.......yeah the bow is from door knob to hinges.....left to right, not top to bottom. the edges were chamfered before gluing, and I thought the same thing about the grooves, but this wood is pretty old and the stuff that I have ripped for smaller trellises and things has not distorted at all......anyway, I had thought about cutting some small Vs on the opposite side, which won't be easy to do.... for me anyway
You have a router?
If so you should be able to handle the v-groves fairly easy.
You could probably do it with a circular saw, don't know with out trying, how small the v's would be though. Just set up a guide.
I don't think I have ever had a door bow on me from knob to hinge? Kinda puzzling. Did you have finish on both sides? If not then I'm thinking the v-groves would have something to do with it. On a hunch, what side is convex or concave, the v-grove side or the smooth?
I don't think I would hang it though until I figured it out, seams that you'll have a tough time getting a good seal against the jamb.
Doug
yes I have a router....just need the nerve to use it on the door..
I have done nothing to the door since it bowed ....I left it outside for a few weeks, letting the weather work on it , since it is an exterior door.
..and the bow didn't get worse, which is a good thing in my mind.
if the door is laid flat like a table, with the grooves facing up, the bow looks like a rolltop desk.looking at the endgrain of the boards....picture this..... ) .....rotated 90deg. to the left
MD
Doing the router thing is not really a big deal, just need to attack it!
Practice on some scrap first to get the feel of the way the router wants to pull and you'll be fine.
Is the door cut to its exact width yet? If not you could cut it apart and reglue it. I know that you don't want to do that but.......
I've had table tops warp the way you describe and I've used the old trick of laying the cupped side down in the wet grass while the convex side is up to the sun and you could almost see it move back to a strait piece. Once done you'd need to put an even coat of finish on it to keep it stable.
Doug
Since it is Cypress I had planned on using oil only, I never thought about a stain, or a finish, but I suppose some sort of UV inhibit will be needed, ?? although I rather expected the oiling to be a constant dutyI can't think about cutting this door in two..... so I will probably end up grooving the backside and maybe the ledgers that I was trying to avoid
A slab door just seems like the most unlikely solution to any constant seal around the door. Even when flat, if the sun beats down on it I am sure it will cup in that direction, with or without battens. Wood is strong and mother nature is unforgiving. How much expansion is expected? Maximum seasonal movement? What climate is this door in?
What climate is this door in?
He's in NW Ind. so that means very cold in the winter and hot and humid in the summer! Extremes I guess.
I wonder if he couldn't let in some " T " iron into the top and bottom, might help. He has a router so the tool is there. I'm not sure you could get a piece of angle iron to hold the door in place over 80" though.
Maddog, is the door going to be exposed to the elements or will it be undercover? Out of the direct sunlight?
Doug
door faces East witth about 4 hours of direct Summer sunlight ..
.and the occasional 3' snow drifts
.......I could fab up a piece of Aluminum T
Edited 2/10/2006 6:53 am by maddog3
...... >>>>>How much expansion is expected? Maximum seasonal movement? What climate is this door in?<<<<<<I have no idea about the first two ?s....3rd?....the Gov't says I live in Zone 5......with occasional Lake Effect snowstorms in MarchI thought I would hang the door in the Spring ,about in the middle of the temp.scale......right around 50F !
Assuming that the door is an exterior one I will suggest that you may have a moisture differential that is causing your bow. Bringing the door inside for drying might straighten it and then you could address the finish to keep out moisture better. Another possible fix would be to install a cross bar/ledger to straighten out the bow. You probably need some counter camber to pull out the bow. You could check this fix by clamping to assess the effects of a proposed camber. Be sure to allow some slack in the attachment screws to accomodate wood movement. Ledgers could be applied to both sides if needed.
counter camber.......do you mean make it bow in the oppsite direction?
No! Bow the ledgers so that their bow counters the doors bow, then when assembled the unit will be straight.
how do I bow a ledger? shims?
You either use a piece with a natural bow or bow it on the jointer, bandsaw,vertical spindle sander, or by lamination, etc.
...Thank you for the explanation bigfootn....... I honestly had no idea what you meant........I appreciate it
There are good reasons why solid doors are not generally used. They just are too prone to warping. The reason is that the atmosphere on the two sides is totally different. On the onside it it exposed to all the vagrancies of weather so that side is constantly absorbing and emitting moisture. The inside, is generally at a much different temperature and humidity. The humidity difference between the two surfaces of the door is what causes warping.
For example, with a difference in relative humidity of 45% on the inside and a 80% outside RH, a cypress door 36" wide will want to expand/contract 3/8" if quartersawn which all doors should be, or 5/8" is the boards were flatsawn. On an exterior door the problem is that the outside surface will want to expand/contract to match the outdoor relative humidity will the inside surface will react to the interior relative humidity. The two different forces will cause the door the warp--more so, if the boards in the door are flatsawn.
This is the reason doors are generally made as panel style. It's a much more stable construction when dealing with large environmental differences on two sides of the wood.
I agree with everything you say. He should make it the picnic table he was talking about. Even then he will end up with a table top about as flat as a satelite dish.
maybe a canoe is a better use...!OK, Ok...... this is bad news for me and my door......:(
I either use the slab for other things or have nothing but problems..........If I re-build the door as a panel door can I use the Cypress ?
or should I just forget about it
Cypress is a wood I have never worked but I am sure that like most woods it will make fine entrance door if worked properly. Rip your slab into rail and stile parts. Select the straightest grained pieces for the stiles and go from there. I use a double panel sandwich on exterior door I make. This lets each panel move independantly depending on thier environment ( outside -40 or inside +72 ).
Wow....that's an exterior door ?? very nice that's quite a bit of work, and another example of why I know I'll only ever be a mediocre WW'er,..
Barrie
I like that double panel idea, I think I'll steal it! Do you put anything between them, like rosen paper, to keep them moving independently?
Doug
The panels are not glued together and will move as mother nature makes them move. The outside one can crack because of excessive sun but the inside panel will remain as smooth as when it was made. On occasion with very thick stiles, I have put 1" styrofoam between the panels but I think this is more work than it is worth.
Edited 2/10/2006 10:34 pm ET by Barrie2777
NICE work from what I can see.. separate panels inside and outside.. NICE touch.. I made my workshop doors (old 1 & 1/2 car garage that is)
with sort of that. Carriage doors. I glued a slab of 2 inch thick ridgid foam insulation between them.. Maybe I should have not glued? Not sure.. WARMER THAN EVER WAS...THAN EVER WAS...THAN EVER WAS......THAN EVER WAS...
Old song I like.. Some will understand most won't!
A few times I have used foam between the panels but they were not glued together. The foam will probably give with the expansion of the wood. A small thing I did was to make the foam shorter and narrower than the panels and have the center of the groove shallower where the foam is than where the wood panels were. The foam fit tight top to bottom and side to side and could be glued around its perimeter. The reason for the different depth groove was to make it more difficult for the wind to pass.
If you want to keep the slab look, rebuild the door as vertical 4 to 6 inch wide strips tongue and grooved together, no glue so each strip can each expand and contract. Attach the verticals to 2x6 or 2x8 crosspieces on one face of the door. One crosspiece would be a few inches below the top of the door, one a few inches from the bottom, and the third approximately at mid height, usually a little below center is the traditional location.
This is a classic and sturdy old style door in New England and is relatively fast to build compared to a frame and panel.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
where could I see an example of that ? If I understand you, the srtips of Cypress are nailed to something that looks like a 2X4 screen door , or the door in my picture earlier ?
Many thanks to everyone for all of your input, I have learned a good hard lesson today, with only a few sentences here I could have saved myself a lot of grief and frustration,....next time, I willASK FIRST.....!Thanks again everyoneTom
Tom -- Don't give up on tht cypress (give it to me, instead)! I made a wine cellar out of it very successfully and a screen door and _____ and ____. Used properly, it's a great material. One project I mase for a church was all cypress to match their 19th century chapel as well as some church furniture. It stains, it paints, it's strong and it's better than pine anyday. My next cypress project is a kind of exterior sculpture for mounting on an exterior wall subject to weather. The newly harvested stuff, particularly from young trees, isn't what I'm talking about, but old growth or salvaged cypress is a very good material with special properties.
I'll trade you for the screen doors Jimma.........man o man, you folks here are real artists, I promise not to embarass you or myself with pictures of my stuff...... I really like the wood...it is old reclaimed boards , and I also have some Redwood that is all clear and straightgrained, although I don't have the ability of anyone here, I was fortunate to be able to save this stuff...
..someday I may be able to make something half as nice as the work I always see here
I tell ya what ... you give me some a that straight grain redwood and I promise to send you pictures of the canoe I'll make outa it. How long is it? Need at least 12 foot pieces if you got em. Of course, I don't know where the hell Indiana is, so you'll also have to tell me where to tell my pickup to go. I'll start in Central Florida, so that ain't too far, is it?
wadda sweet deal Jimma.....hahahaha, right at the southern tip of Lake Michigan, where Indiana and Michigan touchthe boards are 8-9" long though
Kind of a Chicago suburb?
you're TOO funny.....yeah just like a Chicago suburb, only 65 miles away.....with all the goofball yuppies and their BS,luckily they all hang out in Mich.right on the lake with the$400 /night B&Bs
H, yeah -- I remember that area. They call it "the dunes"? My wife and I used to live in South Chicago. By the way, I forgot to mention something you might try for your door project. You can make it "hollow core", sort of. Build a frame out of 2 X materials (pine, cypress, fir or other), fill the voids with fiberglass insulation, then apply sheet goods or resawn lumber (like your cypress) on the sides. This way you can have a different material on the exterior and interior. I made one this way for my own eight-foot front door 40 years ago using Weldwood glue and it's still straight and true, although I'd probably use epoxy today. You'll need some good hinges, too. Oh, and don't forget to make the frame plenty wide on the edge where the door lock and handle will go.
that sounds similar to the door John White in post #24 is talking about.......I really don't want to do this but there is no choice !
All I need now is a jointer ,mortiser, planer and a band sawif you want some redwood , there is a dude in Blue Island who may have what you want...... Iwill see if Ihave his number
its a poor picture but.....at least there is snow !!!
I guess you meat THAT WHITE STUFF ? Couldn't tell from the picture what the growth rings look like, but it's a nice thickness. I was only joking about the redwood. I can get long lengths from Canadian supliers who still cut the stuff and who also mill cove and bead edges for boat buiulding. Thanks.
Edited 2/12/2006 3:20 pm ET by Jimma
........DOH
"...fill the voids with fiberglass insulation..."
I like your "hollow core" door idea, though I'd suggest rigid foam board instead of fiberglass. That's how I'm going to build my replacement garage doors.
Sounds good to use rigid insulation. The main problem I had in framing up the door was in making sure it was flat, or true. A garade door would present a challenge in that sense. Will it be segmented, or one large frame?
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled