I am planning to build a new front door for my house and was planning to use mahogany. Does anyone know of an alternative wood. I do want to use a hardwood.
Thanks LMC
Edited 1/25/2006 4:08 am ET by loucarabasi
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Edited 1/25/2006 4:08 am ET by loucarabasi
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Replies
You will not find a better exterior door wood than Honduras Mahogany. Teak is great, but a bit expensive, and will not take finish in the normal sense. Mahogany is the top standard door wood, with White Pine, Cypress, White Oak and Walnut all coming in the next best group. Poplar is terrible, Alder not much better. Maple and Cherry are in the middle, but not very desirable, longevity-wise. Ipe`is super durable, but will not glue, or at least will not stay glued for more than a year or so.
Good materials, properly used, will age well. Mahogany will darken and fade (depending upon UV exposure), but will look good doing it, whereas Cherry will bleach out and look bad. Walnut will lighten up to a gold color, and Pine will amber nicely.
Use Sikkens to finish the door, and it will also age well and easily recoat. Do not use catalyzed varnishes or urethanes. All exterior wood finishes will fail. It is how they fail that matters. Sikkens will fade away, making a recoat easy. Urethanes and catalyzed will peel and crack, making stripping - chemical and mechanical - necessary. If you door receives little or no UV, and little or no water, then oil finishes are feasible - Penofin, and the like.
Enjoy,
Dave S http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Thanks Dave. I may need yor help when I get closer to the job. The mahogany just arrived today. It was hondoras (nice dense hard material too).
Thank you, Lou
I have been in the door business for over 25 years and the best wood for a exterior entry door, I have seen is from the Philippines. The wood is called Narra Teak. Its is a high land grown wood, grown in the mountains. Its a very stable wood. Finishing results are excellent. Grain color is from a red like rosewood to a brown color. It may be hard to get your hands on it but call around. By the way it is not an oily wood like the Burma Teak and no silica or very little.
The other wood which is a cousin to the Narra is padauk. the grain is not as pretty but will make for a very stable entry door.
Edited 2/5/2006 12:26 pm ET by SD9
Edited 2/5/2006 12:28 pm ET by SD9
Have you ever used Jarrah, or have some comments about it. On a recent trip to Australia it seems to be the choice for outdoor furniture etc, but never saw a door made from it. I just happen to have a couple hundred feet of it, and am also in need of a new door and will definitely take all the knowledge anyone has to share.
Thks, Peter
IIRC, David Marks made an exterior door from Jarrah for his show. You can find details on the diynetwork site.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I made some parts for a staircase from it. It is hard and requires sharp tools. It finishes nice.
I have been working fo a door manufacturer for over a year now. We veneer 1/8' door skins over a high-quality chip board-like material. We would never build a solid wood door for risk of warping. One part of the door has dry heat or air conditioning the other has direct sunlight and all the elements. How could it not warp?
Archibald, I am planning on building a number of interior doors for my home. Today I went to local lumber yard to price the some cherry doors. I was a little surprised that they all seem to use chip board as a base covered with 1/8" cherry. Are solid interior doors a thing of the past? How to you join the particle board you use? Do you use dowels? Also, do you think the process could be done in a well equipped home shop? Thanks, Bill
Solid wood doors are mainly a thing of the past. You would be safe to use one between two rooms where the humidity and temp are more or less equal. But between a basement and kitchen or bathroom and hall way ... no way.The process of joining the doors is simple. You can use dowels, biscuits, or as we do floating tenons made of baltic birch. Another important note is to Edge the particle board with atleast an inch of solid wood to accept the hing screws. You really don't need a fantastic shop for assembly, Veneering the styles and rails is rarely more than 9" in width so we just use pipe clamps and MDF to spread the pressure. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.
Thanks for taking the time to write back. Do you resaw your own veneers or use commercial ones? Also, what thickness MDF or particle board do you use? Is it one thickness or do you laminate it? Thanks, Bill
We resaw our own veneers but we do not use MDF for the core, it is very heavy. We use a high quality chip board that is 2" thick.
Permit me -
I am at a complete loss as to how myth and mystery have completely overruled experience, science and history as to the subject of wood doors. There are millions (billions?) of solid wood doors quietly at work in this country and all over the world, doing a fine job, day in, day out. Some are even - Oh, the horror! - used in laundry rooms! What do you think - that if you look at a solid wood door it will warp, split, rot or otherwise fall apart? Where in the world do you get such ideas?
The fact is that current wood doors factory production is of a very low quality due to the Wal-Marting of N America consumers (consume implies open ended, as though buying doors will become an annual shopping exercise), and the ever zealous accountants chipping away at those hated "costs." The result is a flimsy near door, with goo goo wood interior and maybe exterior, paper veneers, or god-knows-what; with rape the forest, damn the torpedoes, harvest that "African Oak" (whatever in the world that is! - you don't even want to know), then market the hell out of it and get into the HD or big box down the road.
Yes, you are right - these freaks of the manufacturing world will barely perform the function the are made to perform. They will warp, split, peel, crack, mold and fail. Loss from factory to "consumer" (that word again) is close to 20% before said consumer even hauls it out past the greeters. No big deal, it's all built in to the pricing structure.
Market it all long and loud enough to drown out the quiet voice of reason and experience. Turn us all into purchasing little puppets, secure in the fact that we didn't pay friggin' .52 cents more than we should have for something that (if made properly and responsibly) should last for generations and enhance the quality of our daily life!!
Remember that part? Good craft, good design, historic materials, proper methods all go in hand to make something better! These things are to be bought once and will work every days for hundreds of years or more! They will absolutely enhance the quality of our life. Have you forgotten this? Did no one ever tell you? Is this not Fine Woodworking?
I'm mad as hell and not gonna listen to it anymore!
Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Wow Dave,
Im not totally sure what you said but I think I like it. Lets overthrow the Big Box Man!
Jerad
Used in its proper place, veneer is an asset to a piece, not a liability. When applied properly, there is also little about veneer that lends itself to speeding up a woodworking process, or making it less expensive due to the labor and equipment involved. Have I overstepped in saying that solid wood doors are a thing of the past? Perhaps. You won't be locked up for making one, but it is unarguable that a properly veneered piece is more stable than a piece of equivilent size in solid wood. We have chosen in our door shop to use this to our advantage and you are welcome to use it as well ... or not to. If you are a hobbyist, veneering a door will give you the freedom to use timbers that might be unsuitable for a door due their instability or availability. If you are a professional shop it will reduce your likelihood of costly returns. Any other questions or comments are welcome.
I have been building solid wood doors for 25 years. Piece at a time, door at a time. All custom stuff mostly for rich folks. I can honestly say that in 25 years I have NEVER had anybody complain about bending, bowing twisting or warping. I've build interior and exterior solid wood doors out of every domestic wood species you can name and a few imported woods as well. Mostly people bring me a picture of something and ask me,"can you build this." I build every door with TLC. I hand pick every piece of timber that goes into them. All of the doors I build are stave core with at least 1/8" thick veneer. All loose mortise & tenon joints. Here is a picture of the door I am working on now. All the jambs are 1-1/2". The door itself is 48" wide. A side light on the right and a transom above. All the lights will be thermal pane leaded stained glass. Take a look.
When I think of solid wood I conjure images of 8/4 planed to thickness for the rails and stiles. Looking at your door it appears you laminated several pieces of white oak to get the desired rail/stile thickness. Have you ever tried to face laminate 2 pieces of 4/4 then rip to the desired rail width? I have seen this referred to in various books but am curious how stable it is? Also, what thickness of veneer did you use?
The construction method you see in the picture 02_door is called stave core. This method of construction creates an extremely stable door. If you have ever seen quality workbench tops you will see this is how they are constructed. The reason is because they stay flat and true, and it works for doors also. I am not a wood movement expert. I do not understand all the science behind it. I know that from over 25 years of building doors. Lets say you build a six panel 1-3/4 x 36 x 80" front door for your house, out of solid red oak. The lock and hinge stiles are 5-1/4" wide, top rail 5-1/4", bottom rail 8" and all the intermediates 4" wide. You install your door in a perfectly plumb (if that is possible) rabbet jamb. When you close your new door, the face of it touches the jamb stop from top to bottom, no gaps. Wait a day or two and look at it. It will only be touching at either the top or the bottom. It will have 'racked'. Not all that bad to overcome, a good door mechanic thru manipulation of the hinges can bring it back into alignment. A not so good door mechanic will try to cover the gap up with applied stop mouldings. And even make adjustments to the strike plate, like filing it.
What you see in the picture IS several pieces of white oak face laminated together to get the desired rail/stile thickness. In this case there are 5 pieces about 1-1/4" x 2". I then laminate 1/8" thick veneer to both wide surfaces to create, in this case, a 2-1/4" thick stile or rail. I do believe that after it is all done it is a "solid piece of wood". A VERY stable piece of solid wood.
What YOU want do do is rip 2 pieces of wood lets say 3/4" x 5" wide and face glue them together to make a "solid piece of wood" 1-1/2 x 5". Then you want to make a man door out of it. I don't think that is going to work. I have never seen it done nor have I ever tried it myself. I do believe the door would self destruct.
Thanks for taking the time to write back. I got the idea of face laminating 2 4/4 boards from a book on door making. While this thread deals with exterior doors, all the doors I am going to be making are interior (1 3/8). In your door you use oak throughout, I have seen doors whereby just the outside layers are the good wood and the inside are either basswood or poplar. I am curious what your impressions of this type of construction are? The problem of using mixed species seems to be what do you do at the top/bottom of the stiles since the various woods are visible? Thanks, Bill
Could you give me the name of that book on door making you have been reading? I'd sure like to take a look at it.
What you call the "outside layers" I call the "skin." What you call the "inside" I call the "core." I have used poplar for the core but I don't like it. It is cheap for sure, and easy to work with but when I buy let's say a hundred board feet I get half heartwood and half sapwood, and I don't like gluing up half sap and half heart. And another thing, of all the woods that come through my tiny shop I happen to think that poplar is the least stable. I like to make my moldings out of poplar. Also, I like a door to FEEL like a door, and my preference is HEAVY. Heavy don't mean better, but it's just my feeling on the subject.
For the most part BSzydlo, what I use for the core and what I use for the skin depends on how much cash the customer comes up with. I've built pine core doors with cherry, walnut and even some exotic wood skins. Have also built a door with a red oak core and a purple heart skin. Go figure. As for covering up the top and bottom edge of the door, this is what I do. After I've mortised the hinge gains and fit the door in the jamb and I'm happy with everything, I glue a slightly oversized piece of 1/16" veneer out of the same stock the skin is made out of and glue it to the top and bottom. Then I sand it flush with everything. Nobody but me knows it's there. But I will tell you this again, I'm sticking with stave core and veneer skin, why mess with success.
Paul
Paul, the book the information is in is Doors & Entryways by William Spence, on page 24. I am not at home right now but I could scan the image an send it to you if you'd like. If you are not going to make the door completely out of one species of wood, what do you prefer as the material for the core? Pine, poplar, and basswood seem to be the primary species. If you use pine, what type do you use?
Bill
I would like very much to see a scan of the image. Use anything you want to make up the core. I've even mixed species. I like Eastern Pine. Joints, planes and saws nice. Easy to sand too. I use pieces with solid knots, never had a problem with them. Poplar will work for you, just be sure to let it set a few days after machining it, and alternate the grain and the bows. Try not to put any of the pieces you are gluing up under any stress.
We began by gluing up Stave Cores for our doors as well. The decision to switch to Timber Strand came because of the reduced weight and the saved time made possible by not having to laminate the core. Do you have a website with photos of more finished doors?
Sorry Peter I have not seen or used the wood Jarrah.
Thank you sir, I found the material, love it,and am gonna build my door with it. Thank you for the advice
-Lou
Lou glad to be of some help. Have fun. play safe.
Tony
I too have wanted to built an entry door for my house. I see that you put Walnut in the second-tier catagory. If I do make it from Walnut, what sorts of things might I expect to encounter. And how does wood movement affect the ability of the door to keep the air in/out? If this is a big issue, what sorts of steps might I take to combat it?I'll think of a few more questions to bogg you down with I'm sure. SORRY!Thanks,
Kurt
Walnut is a great choice for a door but it should be built using the raised panel method. Not just a door made up of laminated planks to get a flat door it will surly warp.
don't let people tell you that a door will fail if you use any other type of construction or material than what is normally seen. The two pics represent one of about 75 of these type doors I have done over the years, in red and white oak, pine, knotty pine, select and knotty alder and quite frankly I have yet ot have a problem with a slab laid up on a torsion box core.I resaw the stock to 5/8" make two panels and put a 3/4" torsion box core filled with what ever scrap I have laying about for filler . pop it in the Vacuum press for a few hours and finish it up. they work fine. Joe
I have been building dors from Honduras Mahogany and have never had a problem with any. I always rough mill the wood oversize and then let it set for a few weeeks and then come back and finish mill it.
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