Replies

1. 
   BossCrunk | Jul 03, 2006 09:41pm | #1

   If the front of the cabinet is flush and the face frame made well just glue it all the way around and clamp it.  Set the cabinet on a pair of sawhorses and you'll have plenty of room for your clamps.

   The glue area in all long-grain and the resulting construction will be bomb-proof.

2. 
   John_D | Jul 03, 2006 10:18pm | #2

   Pocket screws are easy and fast.  I just made a dryer stand with a drawer and that was an easy way to get the face frame on.

   My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
3. 
   Dave45 | Jul 04, 2006 03:21am | #3

   I've used pocket screws on a couple of cabinets recently and really like them. 

   I lay the cabinet on it's back then lay the faceframe in place and clamp it at two corners.  Then I mark my pocket screw locations.  Since my faceframes aren't always dead flat, I can put a pocket screw at any high spots.

   I've also used brads and finish nails and they work well but you need to pay attention to where the nail goes.  On oak, for example, it's fairly easy to hide a nail hole if it's in the dark grain.

   I'm glad that commercial shops don't glue faceframes.  I'm doing a modification on some maple cabinets which will require a new faceframe.  I popped the old faceframe off this morning and won't have to scrape and clean up old faceframe slivers and glue - lol.

4. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 04, 2006 06:16am | #4

   Hi Stevo,

   Like Boss Crunk, I make sure the back of the face frame and the front edge of the carcase are flat and true, then I glue and clamp them.

   By the way, if you carcase is slightly out of square, you can generally bring it back in line when clamping on the face frame.

   Good luck,

    

   -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

5. 
   notDusty | Jul 04, 2006 06:20am | #5

   Hi stevo ,                  I think how you attach the face should be dictated by the application at hand . A fine piece of furniture certainly deserves more then nails , on the other hand utility grade or household cabinetry may use pins as fasteners .

      On dressers and nicer pieces I have used a reverse notch / slot type joint for more glue surface and had good results on wood framed finished ends .

           As far as biscuits go , imo they like a dowel are great for alignment but , offer little holding power .  A face frame glued and clamped will be as strong a bond you can get or need .

                        good    luck              dusty

6. 
   desertmaster | Jul 04, 2006 07:27am | #6

   Stevo,

       I have been using biscuits for years, but here's what I did on my last set of cabinets to speed things up. It worked well and I intend to use it again:

        I used some scraps of 1/8"  plywood which I ripped into long strips approx. 1/2" wide to use as splines. (You can buy this plywood as "door skins" , usually found on the interior door aisle at Home Depot,,etc. for about $7 each sheet. )   I then cut  saw kerfs just over 1/4" deep down the center of the front edge of plywood cabinet sides, and (keeeping the same fence setting) down the back of the face frame stiles.  I applied glue in the usual way to the plywood sides and the faceframe, inserted the splines in the FF grooves, then clamped the sides on. 

      As someone mentioned in an earlier reply, the glue is what really holds the pieces together. All the splines (or biscuits or whatever) do is keep things lined up while the glue dries.  You don't have to use full length splines:  just  6"  long splines at top and bottom and middle are usually enough to keep things lined up   Also, if you have a thin kerf saw blade, you will have to scuff the strips lightly with a R.O. sander to make them fit.           Gary

    

7. 
   ring | Jul 04, 2006 07:59am | #7

   Stevo,

   I have to qualify what I say by the fact that my shop is a small commercial one - we do 4-6 custom kitchens every month, so we're glueing up a lot of face frames, but it's not an assembly line.

   If the cabinets are going to get painted some opaque finish, we use soft maple face frames with glue and finish nails.  If the cabinets will have some natural wood finish, we glue the face frames with enough biscuits to make the glue-up easy.  I'm not concerned about the strength of the joint.  The work of using biscuits is offset by 2 advantages - (1) Alignment becomes trivial.  Whatever we can do to have less mistakes is important.  A typical cabinet may have a dozen face frame members that are all getting clamped to the cabinet at the same time.  The biscuits keep them from moving around.  (2) Using biscuits we comfortably remove the clamps in shorter time, allowing us to move on to the next unit.  When the glue is only half set you can undo the clamps and set it aside.

   BTW - if the cabinet frames have a rabbet where a bead will afterwards be set, we use crown staples in the rabbet.  They get hidden afterwards by the bead.

   DR

1. 
   stevo1952 | Jul 05, 2006 05:11am | #8

   Thanks everyone. I too clamp and use biscuits like most. I think I will back off on the nailing and rely more on the glue. Has anyone used a headless pin that appears to be pressed in from the back?Stevo

8. 
   9619 | Jul 05, 2006 06:05pm | #9

   Stevo,
   You now have all of the info on attaching faceframes that you you need, and it came from a bunch of highly competent woodworkers.

   I have just been reading some stuff on the need for the US to remain militarily strong in order to remain safe. It was quite convincing. After reading that, my approach to attaching face frames would be to use Gorilla Glue, biscuits, dowels, lag bolts and then to empty your nail gun into it.

   Now that I think about it, I have made a decision not to do any woodwork immediately after reading about military preparedness.

   :-)

   96

   PS- I don't remember if anyone mentioned it in this thread, but you could make the face frame a little too big, glue it on and clamp it, then, when it is dry, go round the piece with your router with a flush-trim bit. The other way is to try to get the face frame dimensions exactly precise and then come up with a way to keep the fac frame from moving while it is being clamped. Even if you do that, you will still have to clean it up a bit.

1. 
   Dave45 | Jul 06, 2006 05:53pm | #10

   9619 -

   I didn't mention it, but I always make my faceframes ~1/16" - ~1/8" wider than my carcass.  I've never had a plywood carcass stay perfectly straight and I live in mortal terror of having a carcass be "proud" of the faceframe and getting a sandthrough on a visible side.

   I attach the faceframe and then run a flush trimming bit down the sides.  If I need it, I'll use a bit of filler in the crack, then sand it smooth with some 220 paper and a sanding block.

9. 
   cscwem | Jul 06, 2006 06:53pm | #11

   for kitchen cabinets i use glue and pocket screws with biscuits for alignment where needed.  the pocket screws eliminate the need for clamping...holes are on the outside of the carcass so they are never seen once installed...

   for freestanding casework and furniture i use biscuits and glue and clamp them up...

   i've seen the corrugated flat metal pieces that cabinet factories press in place.  seems like that would take one hell of a machine to do, not really something i want to invest in...

1. 
   mike_b | Jul 06, 2006 08:06pm | #12

   I've used this technique a few times where a slipping and sliding face frame during glue up was going to be a problem, and I didn't want to bother with biscuits. I cut two or three finish nails down to 1/4" and drill two or three holes in the edge (one on each side, one on top -- whatever) of the carcass about 3/16" deep. Drop the finish nails in the holes point up, spread some glue, position the face frame and gently press it on to the carcass. The nails give just enough bite to keep things from sliding around while I'm putting on the clamps. It's less effort than a bunch of biscuits and works fine. You just need to make sure they're positioned so as not to get in the way of hinge screws or other hardware you may need to add later.