Hi folks. I want to build a bench in which the original builder achieved the thickness needed for the legs by face-gluing two 6/4 boards.
My supplier does not carry 6/4 thickness of the material I want to use, only 4/4 and 8/4. If I glue together one of each, that will be the same thickness as two 6/4 boards.
Does anyone see a problem of gluing up different thicknesses in this way? I know the glue-line will not be in the center of the piece if I do this, but I’m not sure that it would be noticable or objectionable.
Replies
No problem, it is done all the time. Look at the furniture around the house I am sure you will see it done. The only thing to think of is to keep the grain the sam in both pieces. If you glue quarter sawn and flat sawn faces togather, there is a change that the joint will fail under the stresses of the expansion/contraction cycles. What I usually do is I use the same board for the two pieces. I basicly book match across the leingth of the board. In your case just choose two boards that have the same grain orientation.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
No problem on a glue-up, But I would be inclined to glue up three 4/4 pieces, as 4/4 is generally less expensive than 8/4. And it will be a much more stable piece.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Bruce, actually the 8/4 is almost the same price as the 4/4. I thought about three layers of 4/4 too, I just didn't want the piece to start looking like plywood. But I suppose it might have a more symetrical appearance than an 8/4 + 4/4 wouldn't it?
If you have the capability to resaw, and considering the 8/4 and 4/4 are same price, why not glue these and resaw/plane for a symmetrical leg. This will help uniform wood movement/opposing stresses in each leg component.GREG
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Thanks for the good suggestion, Greg. Unfortunately I don't have a bandsaw. I think I'll just glue up 3 x 4/4 boards for this particular project, then I'll show it to the wife and explain to her why I need a planer.
Eric,
I recently glued up some 8/4 to 4/4 to make up some thick enough stock to make 2 1/2" thick doors. I ran across a problem that you will probably need to take into consideration. If the moisture content is not the same on both pieces, after the glue-up when the pieces equalize, they will warp. Leave enough meat on both the pieces to join and plane it flat after the glue-up and after it has had some time to equalize. Depending on the difference in moisture contents, this equalization may take a few weeks.
I like the idea of gluing up three 4/4 boards instead of just the two. It reminds me of gluing veneer (except for the fact that the "veneer is an inch thick!); again if the MC is the same for all the boards, the glue up will be balanced.
Given the choice between these two, I would lean heavily to the three 4/4 board glue-up for the end application of a work bench top...knowing that after the bench was together, I would flatten the top as the last step.
Grainwise,
Thanks for the advice. I am also leaning towards gluing up 3 4/4 boards instead of a 4/4 to an 8/4. It just seems like the more symetrical arrangement will work better. I also plan to take a lesson from Mudman, and cut the 3 pieces from the same board. I think that will help ensure even moisture content as well.
Eric,
Some thoughts to consider:
What kind of bench are you contemplating? Seating, workbench?
What joinery are you planning for the for the legs?
Orientation of the legs with respect to the dimensions of the bench?
I ask these questions as I'm thinking that if M&T joinery is envisioned, then the 8/4 & 4/4 face glue might facilitate easier connnection of cross members, i.e. you could notch out the mortises from the 8/4 pieces before gluing them to the 4/4 pieces.
Just some thoughts to consider.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, the bench is the kind that is sat upon, not a workbench.
The design calls for M&T joinery. Some of the mortises could be done as you describe, but there are still mortises to be cut on the sides of the legs, and that would have to be done the old-fashioned way.
As I continue to think through this, I am now wondering if I should just modify the design of each part to match the thickness of the stock I have available. This would mean reducing the thickness of the legs from 2.5" to 1-13/16" (8/4). I believe it would still be strong enough. Any thoughts?
I want to make a nice, attractive piece with quality material. I really don't like the thought of making plywood out of it.
Eric,
The type of bench would certainly make a difference as to the size of the materials, I would think. Now, going from 2.5" to 1 13/16" isn't a whole lot, < 3/4".
Any parameters/dimensions of what you are trying to make? Even a pic perhaps, a rough sketch maybe?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, do you have access to the member's content on this site? This is what I am trying to make:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignPDF.aspx?id=2530
Hi Eric,
Just looked at it and it's the same one I was thinking of making a few years ago. I copped out when I ran across a great deal on a kit that has metal sidearms/legs/back though.
Anyway, it appears that the only pieces that require 12/4 are the back legs, is that correct? That being the case I would make just those parts from 3 4/4 pieces and the rest could be either 8/4 or 4/4 pieces, right?
With the seat slats running 4', if the springiness is too much, you could form a cleat and attach it underneath the slats in the middle to take some of it out. The one I have uses a metal strip in this fashion as the slats on mine were very springy!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, the front legs are 12/4 as well as the back.
I guess my options are:
Glue up 3x 4/4 for the legs. Disadvantage: appearance.
Reduce thickness and use 8/4 for the legs. Disadvantage: reduction in strength (I don't know if it would still be strong enough or not)
Pick a different material that I can get in 6/4, 5/4, etc. Disadvantage: The bench will be close to my entryway, which is also mahogany, and I would like to use the same material.
Abandon this bench design and try to find a design that uses stock thicknesses for all of its parts. Save the fancy stuff for a day when I own a planer and a bandsaw. Disadvantage: starting from scratch.
Tough choice...
Eric,
That is just not accepted logic for a fellow Knothead! <G> You're supposed to be creative and accept the challenge; overcome the obstacles and make them a part of the design.
Options:
1. Make your glue-ups for the legs letter perfect and noone will see the gluelines.
2. Color the epoxy so they provide an interesting line along the length.
3. Rout the seams very lightly and place a contrsating inlay into the gluelines, perhapos even colored epoxy. I'm thinking of white, black or something that matches another color in the entranceway?
Now, don't forget that the wife has most likely already seen this one and now you'll be in a worse fix than you are now. Have you ever tried to convince a wife to change her mind about something? I trust it is much easier to deal with the issues related to materials, they don't/won't argue with you at least!
I'm confident you can find a solution to the issues at hand. Now get busy, you have a lot of work to do! Just kidding.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
P.S. Another option is to send me round trip plane fare and I'll come out there and help. Haven't been to CA for some time now! <:G>
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 5/31/2007 1:01 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, thanks for setting me straight, I don't know what I was thinking!
You actually made some great suggestions. How would I go about coloring glue/epoxy? I was thinking of using ebony or walnut plugs to cover the screws, maybe I could color the glue dark brown/black so that the gluelines would match the color of the plugs?
Eric,
Not sure if I set you straight nut wanted to pose to you my thoughts if I was faced with your issues. Hopefully it proves to be good input for you, that's what matters most to me.
Google is your friend.
I went there and typed your question into the search box: How would I go about coloring epoxy? Got 302,000 hits.
Many folks don't know it but Google searches text on WEB pages so questions posed to the search box usually get meny answers.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 5/31/2007 1:33 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
OK now the gears are turning.
Instead of colored glue, what if I put some strips of walnut edge banding between each layer? Sheet veneer is expensive, and since only the edges would be showing, I could just put a layer of edging strips between each 4/4 board. When cut, there would be two 1/32" walnut stripes running down the legs and arms, which would compliment the walnut plugs.
Would this work?
Eric,
To borrow from the teachings of Metod: You have the mind running, now it's time to engage the brain and prove your theory.
Let us know how your experimentation turns out.
Metod: I hope I have not overstepped my bounds here............
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 5/31/2007 4:01 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Eric,
Didn't mean to put you off with that last post. I'm curious as to what the gears have come up with?
Many times we get so tangled up in what we perceive as a problem and don't see the forest thru the trees. The thoughts that I came up with were from participating here on Knots and observing others ways of working wood.
Hope you are progressing well.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, I wasn't put off at all. I'm still thinking about how I want to do it. I'm going to make a trip to the lumberyard today and take a look at the offerings there. Maybe if I take a look at the boards it will help me make up my mind. I'm still torn between going into charted waters with this laminated edging idea, and coming up with a new design that will use stock thicknesses. I've looked at so many bench plans now that I think I could probably design my own. In the end, that may prove to be more rewarding.
Eric,
It's great that you're still having fun. Perhaps the laminating idea might not be such a good one except if you need to face glue to get the desired dimensions needed for a project especially if it has to endure the rigors of mother nature.
Where I live in northern NH, we can see temperature swings of more than 40° in a day! With all manner of precipitation mixed in. And that can happen within any given season as well. I use white oak here and have had very good success. Also, I tend to think about end grain orientation.
The wife toll (sp?) paints and her honey-do list always contains at least several birdhouses, mostly for indoor decoration, but she also gets the occasional order for outside application as well. At our house the horse fence is adorned with more than one of them.
Also working on a purple martin house, several more b-houses, Queene Anne interpretation piece, 16' saw bench for the shop, etc, etc, etc.... Much fun! When it stops being fun, you're doing something wrong! Which reminds me, it's almost 6AM, almost time to head for the Woodshop/FUN!
Refards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/3/2007 5:53 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Eric, Your welcome. Isn't that why we're all here, to learn from the mistakes...er... learning opportunities from each other? I'm glad that I could help you out. Keep up posted on how your workbench finishes out.
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