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The cabinet shop finish failed.
We just completed our new home and have problems with the finish of our custom cabinets.
The cabinets are maple, colored to a dark brown cherry. If I rub my thumbnail, with moderate pressure, against the finish, the finish comes off revealing lightly stained maple. It is as if there is a lack of adhesion between the top coats and the initial staining.
The cabinet shop tells me that the cause is the lack of one final clear finish coat. I suspect there is a problem with the adhesion of the first coat on the maple that they are calling a “back coat” and the next coats which were a finish coat with heavy pigmentation to achieve the dark cherry brown that we wanted.
‘b ‘Two questions:
1) Is there a technical way to test the adhesion between coats of a finish – rather than using my thumbnail?
2) Is it proper to fix the finish by applying a final clear top coat?
Any help would be appreciated.
Replies
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Dennis,
FWIW, it sounds as if a water based stain was applied and an oil based Minwax Polyshade type finish was used. You already checked for adhesion in the most "technical" way that I know of short of taking samples to a chemist. I don't think that another coat will fix the problem as the undercoat has not adhered.
Dano
*In answer to * 1. Read this thread, Breaking all the rules, not that you can do this test on a visible surface. Inside a cabinet somewhere maybe?* 2. If you accurately reported your polishers explanation and proposed solution, then I wouldn't accept either as being right. That's all I'm saying in public in response to hearsay.* 3. Solution. Without seeing the job I'd guess that stripping and starting again looks a strong possibility.* Sliante.
*Dennis, if I understand correctly (always an iffy proposition), this is an "all-pro" job, the cabinets are built and finished by this firm you refer to as "the cabinet shop"?If so, I'd strongly advise letting them do what they feel they need to. If they come in and do that, and it works, everyone is happy. If they come in, and it doesn't work, you're no worse off, and they still need to fix their work. If you don't allow them to do what they feel is required to repair them, they are "off the hook", so to speak.For what its worth (which is nothing), I tend to agree with you that there is an adhesion problem, and that another coat won't likely help. But, I'm here, you're there, and the finisher is who should be allowed to fix the work. ;-)Dave
*Dennis,Dave has a very good point and his advice should be taken. If I were in your shoes I would play "dumb", let them attempt to fix it, if they can, great, if they can't you then have legal recourse. FWIW.Dano
*Danford;Thank you for your response. The issue becomes the disruption to the household while the cabinets are being fixed. After close to a year of the building process, my wife, dog, and I would dearly love to regain a sense of peace in our lifes. Having workmen show up at 7:00 AM to invade your kitchen is not something I wish to go through twice.We are all better off if the job is done correctly the first, or in this case - the second - time.Legal action is an alternative, but what we are trying to achieve is kitchen cabinets that are properly done. The courts can not "make" someone do good work, they can only assess monetary damages. Unfortunately, I do not believe that the courts would award pain and suffering money for a bolchted kitchen job.
*Dennis,I agree totally. Ideally the job should have been done right the first time. I was merely advising an approach to take. What you do if the second attempt fails, is totally up to you. For any body to attempt to go beyond a generalized "fix" for your problem and/or make an unequivocal judgment pertaining to your cabinet makers competence relying solely on your description would be irresponsible. FWIW.Dano
*If the top coat is lacquer, It would be both illegal and overly risky to recoat in your house unless the topcoat is brushed on.(which is a bad idea) Therefore I would ask this; What type of finish has this shop used? Stain(s)?sealer? topcoat? If you can post answers to these questions, it would be easier to make suggestions. If your description is accurate,the finishing techniques employed by this cabinet shop are questionable at best If they are now suggesting a topcoat, why was it not applied in the first place, before delivery???
*You are going to practically burnish Oak with 220 grit sandpaper, especially if you don't change it often. Drop back down to 100, work your way back up to 220 but don't over-sand with the high grit paper.
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