At the risk of being banned from this site, I would like to ask your opinion on those wood substitutes such as Trex.
We have a tongue-and-groove gate that is bolted to a vertical 2×4, which in turn is attached to the pseudo-adobe wall. The support is splitting right through the bolt holes. The gate itself is battered but holding together.
Our gate and support have to stay the same style, construction, and paint color (neighborhood rules). I was wondering if the vertical 2×4 would be more stable if made of fake wood. If that worked out, the gate would be replaced next.
I think fake wood is hideous, but under paint it would look the same as wood–wouldn’t it? Any experience with this stuff?
Replies
There are now "fake wood" 4x4 posts, cap rails, etc., too. Some of the carps are using Trex, Choice Deck, etc. for exterior trim. It now comes in more colors than its original grey--so much the better if you can avoid painting altogether, although they can be painted after etching for a few months outdoors. You could do a search on Breaktime and come up with many discussions about the characteristics of the various plastic products.
John Hardie products--which combine cement and wood fiber (as opposed to the above plastic and fiber)--has recently introduced a line of trim in 5/4 thickness. It's indestructible and the stuff loves [acrylic] paint!
Something to keep in mind is that any of the nomimal decking products that you might use as "lumber" in your situation will be denser than wood. The plastics are more flexible than wood so you'll have to provide more support against sagging than you would for a wooden gate. You should have carbide blades to cut them. There are now special screws that eliminate the mushrooming around the head that happens with these products, but some folks predrill while others just mash the fibers down with a hammer.
First of all, i would figure out a way to anchor a post in concrete instead of bolting it through the "fake adobe" exterior, as the fasteners, especially loose ones, oftentimes provide a splendid route for water infiltration and subsequent rot. If you screw the post to the wall again anyway, use a rubber grommet around the lag screw between post and wall to keep water out.
Does it look like wood after it's painted? The texture of painted wood, I mean. The Architectural Standards Committee would have a fit if it looked any different than the neighbors'.
Janet
Does it look like wood after it's painted? The texture of painted wood, I mean.
I've only seen the Hardie product in smooth, but uou can get the composite products in textured, non-slip finishes that resemble weathered wood (i don't know of any product with the wood-grain on both sides), or smooth as in planed wood. Some products are smoother than others, so see actual samples before choosing. The plastic composites can be routed so that the edges of the boards don't look like decking, if that helps. As to whether it looks like your present wood gate: probably not unless you want to add some faux rot, flaking, splitting, mold...
I helped my neighbor build a deck out of this stuff, the flooring part that is. It's not bad once you get past the idea that it's trying to be wood but really isn't and it works better outdoors for decks that wood would, anyway.
It's not structural, you can't use it for compression loads like for wall studs. It has limited span capabilities (16" for the stuff we used; approx 1 1/4" thick). Don't know about its screw holding abilities, would be something to check on if you're attaching things to it that need to be supported. Easy to work with and tends to weather to a not-quite-so-unpleasant brown which is better than the dull blue grey it starts out with in life.
Once it's painted and doing its job, you'll forget all about it (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
>> ... it works better outdoors for decks than wood would, anyway.
Actually, wood is perfectly well suited for decks, but people want to skimp on materials and maintenance. A proper deck is made of teak and is holystoned every day.
> ....A proper deck is made of teak and is
holystoned every day.
Yeah, and since I just won the mega-bux lottery, I'll remember that! (grin)
No matter how you slice it (pun intended) though, decks take lots of maintenance that most people ignore. Accumulated grunge holds moisture which rots the wood. People build them too close to the ground without proper ventilation: wood rots. Screws and nails allow moisture to wick in as Splintie points out: wood rots.
I re-built my deck using a poly deck membrane over plywood adressing drainage with scuppers & solid handrail. Still not perfect since there's so much dirt in the air that it takes annual (probably should be twice yearly) pressure washing to keep looking nice. The next deck, if there is one, will be a concrete slab! (haha)
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
What is holystoned?
>> What is holystoned?
Wet sanded with blocks of sandstone. Sometimes soap and additional loose sand were also used. This was done daily on Royal Navy ships (and perhaps others as well). I've seen two explanations for the origin of the term. One is that the stones were about the same size as the edition of the bible in use in England when they acquired the name. The other is that the stones were evidently holy, as they always brought a man to his knees.
Wrong wrong wrong!!!!!!!!
They are called holy stones because .........drum roll please.....
the have a hole in the stone.
they put a stick in the hole and slide the stone back and forth across the deck sanding as they go.
I have some movies of the Sailors in the navy during WW2 on a battleship lined up and in perfect harmony they sweep back and forth across the deck as many as ten abreast.
Next question please........:-)
>> Wrong wrong wrong!!!!!!!!
The statement I made, that I had read two different explanations, was not wrong, but 100% accurate. The friendly way to share your information (if you're at all interested in being friendly) would have been to say that you had heard yet a third explanation for the name.
Your explanation, while superficially attractive, doesn't explain why the holystones of 200 years ago were called holystones when they did not have holes in them and were operated by sailors on their knees.
If I replace the vertical gate support with composite wood, does it need to be above the ground? Somewhere I saw a teak garden bench that had bronze caps on the bottom inch of the legs to protect it from water. There's hardly any rain here in southern California, our gate is over concrete, and this composite stuff resists water damage. But the sun is very strong in the summer.
I was wondering if letting the support sit on the concrete would add more stability and keep the gate from pulling out the bolts again.
Sorry, I wasn't paying much attention to the problem you're describing, just cherry picking the questions I thought I might know the answer to.
So you've got a vertical 2x4 (let's call it a post for short, even though it doesn't go into the ground) attached attached to the wall. I assume the hinges are attached to the post and the splitting is happening at the hinge fasteners. And you've got a concrete walk that goes right up to the wall that you could rest the bottom of the post on if it would gain you anything. Have I misunderstood anything so far?
I have two questions. First, are the hinges bolted to the post, with a nut either on the back of the post or over the hinge plates, or are they screwed, with a fastener that screws directly into the wood? And second, how firmly is the post attached to the wall?
My guess is that the post is not attached rigidly to the wall and that the hinges are screwed rather than bolted to the post, and that both connections, post to wall and hinges to post, have more flex in them than they should have, and the wiggle is giving the screws more sideways leverage than they should have, which is splitting the post.
I don't think composite will help much. If the post is attached rigidly to the wall and the hinges are bolted firmly to the post, with
adequate washers to keep from crushing the wood, wood should perform quite well. I also wouldn't worry too much about the neighborhood association. If you rounded the corners and kept it painted, you could use a 2x4 structural steel channel and nobody could tell the difference from the curb.
I'm sorry that you missed the little sideways smiley face that was winking or you would have understood I was just havin' fun.. I think they call those things emoticons. just a quick way of showing humor....
You're right, I did miss it. Or I was so mad by that point that I didn't recognize it. Being eager to take offense is not a life affirming attitude, and I even remember telling _other_ people that.
Thanks for not biting back.
It would probably make more sense to have those little smiley things at the front then the back or maybe both. They are way too easy to miss! Anyway for future referance I try never to offend intentionally and I'm sorry that I managed to in your case. I'll buy the next round....
I read about sand being used to scour wood floors. It might have been in Anne of Green Gables, set in early 20th century.
I have also seen outdoor stairs and railings in which the the wood didn't wear smoothly. You could see the ring pattern (although I don't recall if the rings stood higher than the wood between, or vice versa). Is this common with all wood species, and is it considered desirable or un?
>> Is this common with all wood species, ...
No. Only species that have perceptible annual growth rings and exhibit a significant difference in hardness/density/strength in different stages of the ring. Douglas fir and white oak are two species that have such a difference. Sugar maple has annual rings, but there is very little difference between the early wood and late wood. Many tropical species don't have any discernable annual rings.
>> ... and is it considered desirable or un?
It's hard to imagine any visual characteristic of wood that is unanimously considered desirable or undesirable. I almost wrote visual or tactile, but some tactile characteristics, like splintering, are widely deplored. If you're making for the market, you have to consider public taste. If you're making for yourself, and you consider it desirable, it's desirable.
uh, it's not 'fake wood'... it's an engineered building material that can be substituted for wood building products when the performance requirements dictate such a substitute. It's also not cheap to use any of these materials, and they are significantly heavier than wood and have specific framing requirements as well as specialized fasteners.
Personally, I chose not to use this in my house (I went with slate and Ipe for my deck), but I applaud the manufacturers of these products for innovating new materials that use recycled components and offer tremendous performance enhancements. Trex, as a representative example of the wide range of products, doesn't rot, require painting or finishing, expand/contract significantly, warp, split or splinter.
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