Who is using one of the high-dollar miter gauges like a Kreg or Jessem? I’m thinking aobut one to get more accurate joinery and speed up the process, but not sure if they are worth money.
Further, is the Jessem worth the extra $$ over the Kreg? I can see if you were using a lot of odd angles it would be, and I realize it is a step above in terms of machining and beefiness, but is it overkill?
Replies
I'm planning on purchasing one myself. Personally, I didn't like the feel of the Kreg especially for the price. The other looks great, but it is sort of pricy too. Have you looked at the incra line? I think I will be choosing from one of them...
Frank
My tablesaw's stock miter gauge fits the miter slot very well and does the job. I always use a square or angle gauge to accurately set angles which doesn't take any time. I have since added the Woodhaven basic miter (90 and 45 degree) with an auxilliary fence and a stop block, this setup handles the vast majority of cross-cutting tasks. Finally, I have a shop-built, 90 degree cross-cut sled that can handle panels up to 25" deep. You just can't accurately and safely crosscut panels or long boards without a sled. I have a first generation SCMS which just isn't accurate enough for fine work. Maybe the newer models are dead-on accurate.
ohcomeon,
Your really asking two questions: is the aftermarket miter guage useful, and, is the Kreg/Jessum worth the money. I own the Incra 1000se and it is very useful and gets used a lot because of it accuracy. It saves a lot of time and is used primarily for 90 degree cuts The one problem I've found with the Incra comes when using heavy rather large stock(like squaring up 2'x10"x3/4" oak) the weight can be a bit too much for the Incra. I've been looking at the Jessum for that reason but so far have been able get satisfactory results from my sled.
Another issue that might arise with lighter weight miter guages comes when cutting shoulders on tenons. Making the second cut on the underside can be off if I have not held the stock against the stop with the same amount of pressure as the initial shoulder cut. I'm not sure the Kreg or Jessum helps with those issues but that is what I'd be looking for at that price point.
I'm in BG's camp on the miter gauges. I have the Incra 1000 (purchased before the SE model became available). Is it a step up? You betcha. Extremely accurate and well worth the cost. Can't comment on Kreg vs. Jessem. There was a review recently that would at least give you some info on the difference in the mechanics between the two and perhaps ease of use. Was that in the newest Tool Guide??
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
yeah, I just looked back at that review, and while the guy said he really liked the Jessem, he didn't say much about the Kreg or why the Jessem really outshined it. I was hoping to get more from that article.
I know I want something more accurate and quicker to setu up than the stock one that came w/ my saw, but I guess I need to see if I can find the Kreg set up so I can compare how it feels to the Jessem or an Incra. I just can't bring myself to spend that much for the Jessem though. Maybe if I had a $2k saw, but my 64A doesn't merit that.
I was thinking about the Incra, but read one review that said the vertical part is not square to the table, thus if you are cutting something on edge it may give an out-of-square cut. Decisions, decisions.
"I was thinking about the Incra, but read one review that said the vertical part is not square to the table," Yes, that has been a problem for some purchasers. I checked mine (again) after reading someone's posted complaint, and it was dead-on at 90°. It's easy to shim it to 90° if need be, and I wouldn't mind doing that to save $75 or whatever.
Really, IMHO, depends on what your budget is. If a person simply can't afford over about $120 for a miter gauge, I really think the Incra 1000SE is an excellent buy. I can, however, see a couple of advantages to the Kreg or the Jessem. You won't ever find me spending the kind of money Jessem wants for their stuff, however [barring winning the lottery].forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Never used either, but I've got a good friend with a Woodhaven Deluxe that replaced an Osborne EB-3. The WH is downright impressively built, and he likes it alot better than the EB-3.
I've got the Incra 1000 SE. I bought the 40+" attachment for extra long cuts, but I can only use it on very thin stock. Like BG stated, anything of weight is capable of deflecting the fence just enough to make it out of square, or miters that are a bit off. So, and I recommend this to everybody reading this thread, I now use a shooting board for everything. I made two, one for 45's, and one for 90's. Once you've made a good shooting board, it only takes a few seconds on each miter or 90 to make them dead accurate. I still like the Incra the best, but it won't give me tight miters the way the shooting board will.
If I had it to do all over again, I would have made a sliding miter jig, and passed on the cost of the upgraded miter guage/fence.
Jeff
Another vote for the Incra 1000SE. For really long pieces, I use the miter/support bar on the Excaliber sliding table.
Good luck.
Michael
My problem isn't with long pieces, it's with longer, HEAVY pieces. Trying to crosscut a 10" wide board that is 4 feet long deflects the Incra just enough to take it out of square.
Jeff
"Trying to crosscut a 10" wide board that is 4 feet long deflects the Incra just enough to take it out of square." Miter saw?? Since I got a decent one, I never use the table saw for stock like that.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Ibid...even a 8" scmitre saw would handle that, and as the mass off the material is oftentimes the hinderance to accuracy, a really good blade in a reallygood skill saw guided by a home -made guide is gonna achieve an accuracy well above and beyond what any guide mounted in a Ts is gonna achieve with handling the mass of what amounts to 4 sq ft of material. What would happen with trying to achieve an angled cut on say a 7' gable 16" wide and 1" thick.
I try to move the (skill) saw (guided by gyroscope motion in a straightish path and augmented by guides) rather than overcome the inertia of a piece of material- to me it's simple physics and geometry as to which cut is gonna be more accurate. I do know which is cheapest and easiest to accomplish.
I am still trying to come to grips with the utility of these mitre gauges in a workshop. Maybe someday the light will come on.
Eric in Cowtown
I'm in 7th Heaven since I got a decent miter saw (12" Bosch, for the record). Thought the other night it might have let me down -- a 45° miter was off a smidge. However, it turned out I hadn't screwed down the aux. fence tight enough on one end and that was throwing the cut off. Shoulda had more faith (and checked before I cut, LOL).
"rather than overcome the inertia of a piece of material" Amen, well put.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Cowtown, making a bunch of repeatable cuts (dados, miters, tennon shoulders, etc) is made much more simplistic and accurate w/ a gauge like these. Certainly it is a luxury, but it is also a time-saver and increases accuracy and repeatability.
Now that I have one I won't ever go back. I could have made an extended fence w/ an adjustable stop, but it would have lacked a lot of the features such as being able to quickly set it and not repeatedly check angles, take up the slop in the T-slot, etc. And I am also tired of making jigs. I want to get on w/ making final products.
that's my 2 cents.
I will add that I came to find that the Incra was not set up square out of the box which PO'ed me. It was easy enough to do, but for something that is supposed to be devastatingly accurate and for what it costs I think Incra can do that at the factory. In my case it was out of square in both planes (with the table and blade).
JH
I understand your disgruntlement with the gauge being out of square with the table. But with the blade? That's going to change from saw to saw, depending on how the bar is adjusted within the slot, using those 3 or 4(?) nylon adjusters. Pretty much has to be set by the user, seems to moi. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Not if your blade is square to the table. The issue is that the head of the miter guage was not set square to the bar itself, which they provide info on fixing (w/ the three cap screws that hold it all togehter), but still, for that kind of money I think they should set it up square out of the box. Foolishly I made that assumption and realized that the shoulders of the stub tennons were not square.
In other words, 90 degrees is not really 90 degrees to the miter guage itself, or to the slot in the table.
Edited 1/24/2006 3:53 pm ET by ohcomeon
I have one from woodhaven and it has worked well. My father has an Osborne like the one Norm has and he has not liked it as much as the Woodhaven.
Good luck
Troy
HI
I have the Kreg miter guage.I like it , It is vary accurate. I do not know vary mutch about the Jessem.
Have a nice day Lee
I'm assuming those of you who are trying to cross cut and do mitres on the TS do not own a SCMS. Is that right?If that is the case, maybe your best bet is to apply those mitre guage dollars to a SCMS, and then build yourself a simple sled for cross cuts and mitres the SCMS can't handle. I have two mitre guages -- the fancy one from Woodhaven and an Incra, but the only thing I have used them for in the last few years is tenon work. Both are okay, but I prefer the Incra, since the little graphite plugs on the Woodhaven (intended to give a snug fit in the TS mitre slide) always seem to snag.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
HI
I purchased the Kerg miter guage because it has finer adjustments for the angles than my miter saw.
I think the ideal setup would be one of these expenssive miter guager on a sled I have seen them in a couple of catalogs. Cannot buy everything though.
Have a nice day Lee
Another vote for the Woodhaven.
I used a friend's for awhile and ended up buying one for myself. Sturdy and accurate with infinite adjustability and several preset lockable stops at all the normal angles. I would recommend getting the longer miter bar (23 3/4"), though., as it will allow for a little more room when cutting wider stock...
Two pennies worth...
Dave
Whatever you choose to get, it really will make a huge difference when doing work where accuracy counts. I have an Incra 1000SE that I bought at woodcraft for $150 and I love it. I just need the basics, including tight fit in my miter slot, ability to set precise angles, and a solid feel. Almost all of my cutoffs happen at the SCMS so the miter guage on the tablesaw tends to get used almost exclusively for joinery.
That is really my intention; joinery stuff and accurate lengths w/ the flip stop. Doing a lot of M&T joints gets tedious w/ out a stop and keeping them perfectly square w/ a stock miter guage is a pain.
thanks everyone for the input.
JH
by the way, I looked at the kreg very carefully side by side against the Incra, they are the same price and have the same features. Either one would work equally well in my opinion, I chose the Incra because I liked the miter slot adjustments they use.
I'll jump on the 1000se bandwagon. It was reccomended here. I got if for around a 100, and have been copletely happy.
I have the 1000se too. Very satisfied. i use it on both my TS and BS. Got it at Woodpeckers for a great price.
Woodpeckers is where I got mine. The had a sale going. I get that E-mail flyer every Friday and it goes on sale every so often. I liked the fact that you could slide the bar to the left or right of the gauge. It's dead on that's for sure.
I finally bit and got the 1000SE as well. Found it for $115 ($127 w/ shipping) so I grabbed it. It will help immensely w/ the repetitive cuts in making my new kitchen cabinet doors and drawers.
thanks to everyone for the input.
Cool, let us know how you like it! You can easily make auxillary fences for it to provide zero-clearance exits for your cuts, etc.
Remember! Always check to make sure it will clear the blade when/if you switch it to the other side. I spaced one day and forgot to move the fence over, now it has a sweet little reminder in the lower front edge.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I got the 1000SE yesterday and it certainly makes a big difference. So much easier to set up for accurate, repeatable cuts.
The only thing I didn't like is the fact that I had to shim the fence to get it square (face) to the table. Their instructions also leave something to be desired, but the features offset that.
If anyone has any tips on getting the most out of this gauge I'd be glad to hear them. The one thing I am wondering about is how to accurately set it up when switching back and forth from left and right hand use. Re-zeroing it each time by measuring test cuts and adjusting the tape seems like a pain.
Time to go make sawdust.
Can't help you with the tape; I never use the tape, and rarely move it to the other side of the blade; mainly when doing miters. "seems like a pain" -- that's probably why I don't use it, LOL! But in general, I just don't trust tapes I guess.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 1/22/2006 1:38 pm by forestgirl
Ohcomeon,
Like FG, I too never use a tape with the 1000se....I use a metal yard stick (cost about $2.99)for just about all measurements. Initially I tried to keep the fense edge close to the blade but quickly saw it would come in contact with the blade when on an angle...not a good thing.
I would just make a miter sled. Some issues in finewoodworking have shown some pretty sweet ideas for a sled.
-Lou
I'll weigh in for another miter gauge: the JDS Accu-Miter. Very sturdy, stable, and accurate. Simple to set up, and dead nuts after that on all the pre-set angles. I use a cutoff sled for really wide stock, but everything else is crosscut with the Accu-Miter. Worth every penny, and more. Just a couple of mine tossed in...
Another vote for the JDS Accu-miter. Easy setup, very accurate and very solid feel
Edited 1/22/2006 9:17 am ET by lowangle
I opted for the Kreg just last week. The decision came down to price and weight. While the Kreg is lighter than the Jessem (compared side by side at Woodcraft) the Kreg well built and very accurite. The Jessem is kinda heavy. Sometimes I switch TS operations alot during a project.
Paid 113.00 plus tax at woodcraft with 25% coupon just before year end.
I just do not see the point, I have built cross cut sleds in lots of the angles I need, (I build them as the need comes up). They never move so they never get out of adjustment, and they cost almost nothing.
Napie, I agree and think they are safer too. Good ideas in FW you'll find.
-Lou
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