Friends,
I just came across a phenomenal website showing furniture designed to save space. Their furniture amazed me. They talked about people who live in apartments having less than 200 square feet.
This isn’t “fine wooden furniture” of the type we normally see here on Knots. THis takes “Murphy Beds” to new levels. The DETAILS are really cool – A Murphy bed comes down over a desk which folds away without anything on the desk falling over.
Then further down on the same page you can get to a “Geeky Furniture” website – not as fantastic as the previous site, but very cool.
I admire folks who can design and implement designs for furniture as creative as this.
Check out
http://www.walyou.com/blog/2010/06/26/space-saving-furniture-design-italian/
Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. This will be especially interesting to those who do “built-ins”. (Dusty, that means YOU.)
Mel
Replies
Thanks for sharing.
Very clever designs. There are a few ideas that could be used in furniture quite readily, such as the table legs at 2:38
Chris,
Good to hear from you. Glad you got something out of the article on space saving furniture. The ideas are great, and the engineering to make them happen is even better. I am not going to build any of these things, but I plan to keep some of th ideas in mind. Who knows?
Hope things are going well for you.
Mel
wow!
Mel
that website and video had some pretty intersting furniture. Not sure I would ever try to build stuff like that but it sure gives some great ideas for space saving and designs.
thanks
Jeff
Jeff,
I am glad you enjoyed the website. I was wondering if that website would generate any buzz around here. After all, this is "FINE WOODWORKING". THere is a "sameness" to the stuff we see here in Knots - styles are repetitive, and much of the focus is on what handtool is best or which bandsaw is best. I would think that folks who think they are at the forefront of fine furniture would jump at the chance to see some really different ideas. No such luck. Maybe the name Fine Woodworking should be changed to "Traditional Woodworking", and new ideas should be left to other websites. I would like to see FWW do an article on this company and its furniture. I will write and suggest it, and see what happens.
Have fun.
Mel
Mel, stop whining.
Really, what did you expect? You posted a fascinating piece about industrial design, but it isn't even slightly related to woodworking, fine or otherwise. So a bunch of WW's didn't get excited about it and you want to chastise us? Jeez Mel... I seem to recall you carping not too long ago about the presence of lowly kitchen cabinetmakers, as if we polluted the purity of any discussion of fine woodworking. Were you now expecting all the industrial designers on Knots to chime in? Stop whimpering. You are having fun, remember?
David,
Normally, I wouldn't answer a message such as yours, but I have always found you to be a thoughtful, intelligent person as well as an excellent woodworker. I never belittled "kitchenmakers". I did distinguish between those who make one of a kind bespoke furniture and those who do builti-ins. There are some who do both. In the message I sent on that subject, I was wondering about the probability of a person who makes one of a kind furniture making it into the middle class. THat is much different than making a living by making kitchens. I personally know dozens of people who make a good living by doing built ins, but I know very few who can do it by making bespoke furniture.
There was nothing negative about kitchenmakers in my message. Dusty and a few others took it as if I did. I wrote back to Dusty and told him what I was doing.
About my post on the creative furniture designer from Italy -- I believe I said that this wasn't about woodworking per se, but it was relevant, and it was certainly very creative. It holds possibilities for bespoke furniture makers and for makers of built in furniture. I believe that is about as radical as saying the sky is blue.
Many artists find their muses in areas outside their area of endeavor. Same is true for scientists and engineers. Marc Adams designed and built a houseful of furniture based on Walt Disney's Snow White movie. Certainly Snow White is less relevant to woodwork than the website I presented.
I can easily see making a very nice Murphy bed out of beautiful wood, which comes down over a very nice wooden desk, both one of a kind, and using a mechanism such as in the website.
Sorry I got you upset. Life is to short to get upset over little things, such as someone else's opinion. Have a nice day.
Please realize that there are makers of built in furniture that I know, besides you, who make beautiful and clever things. However, most kitchenmakers that I know are smart enough to give people what they want, and many people want their kitchens to be very "standard" and not cost much. To me, that is a way to make a living, but it is not what I want to do as a retiree who is interested in designing and making bespoke furniture.
Mel
I have to side with David.
I think you are missing the point. These magazines and forums are for woodworkers, most of which do it as a hobby. You will not find here on in other forums designers. On the other hand, I am surprised you feel FWW is nothing but traditional WW when they have for the last year or so presented innovative ideas on their "how was it done" section usually at the back of the magazine. For example, the June issue with the gentleman who sliced the wood and bent it. He had some great stuff in his web site.
Like you I have had my fill of A&C, G&G, etc styles. But you have to realize that many like me who are starting learn by doing this kind of furniture to practice the techniques required to make our own designs. To this I have to add that clever designs are not necessarily representative of good craftmanship. Who is to say that this Italian furniture is not melanine covered particle board held together by screws and butt joints?
When I saw your original post, I checked the site, saw the movie and thought they were clever designs but even if you wanted to make something similar, where would you get the hardware?
I would have been impressed if these people were making all this with wood and no specially designed hardware. So I guess what I am saying is that I don't see why you are disappointed that clever applications of industrial design do not make a buzz here.
Broadening horizons
Missing the point or not, I value Mel's input. The magazine is chock full of good information, but I find it very focused - a little too. One of the reasons I am active on forums is for diversity. Things that editors think have too little interest are brought up and sometimes discussed with great interest (like sliding table saws) and others with less interest, such as this one. But still, it gives me ideas. Save for the table leg design I mentioned, I don't think I'll ever make anything shown (partly because of suspected inavailability of hardware but moreso due to lack of interest in that type of work).
There is always another (and better) way.
The value of Mel's input
is not in question, what is in question is his disappointment about the post not generating more responses and chastising us for it. I don't think there is any question we all would like to see more innovative and modern ideas, but for that you need to look else where. If you want ideas and diversity do a google search for modern furniture design, wood furniture design and you will get many sources to draw ideas from.
The goal of the magazine IMO is to balance content for newbees as well as experienced workers. OTOH, ideas can come from anywhere, I am in the process of designing a kitchen based on C. Gochnour's lumber/miter saw stand. There are some design difficulties I have to overcome but I think it will make a great design for a small apartment or house kitchen. I wouldn't be able to overcome these design problems if I had not learnt how to do the techniques from magazines like this as well as forums like this.
Magazines starting to bore me
What I meant in my last post, but wrote in a very round-about way is that I've come to realize that current woodworking magazines have less and less that interest me. My favourite magazine all time is Woodwork because it provided insight into what how and why the woodworkers do what they do. Most magazines seem to repeat themselves a lot. Many tips are slight variations or duplicates, there is article after article on sharpening, etc. etc. The only reason I still subscribe to FW is that they do produce some good articles that I enjoy reading. Varju's article on managing glue squeeze-out and Pekovich's on photography were both excellent, I thought. The back cover is always interesting. Other than, not much captured my attention. Perhaps part of the problem is that in woodworking, there are few big advances save for new technology (Sawstop, for example). Techniques change very little and materials even less.
I think I'll stop there as I'm beginning to ramble and lose focus.
I agree with you.
I really miss Woodwork, But their "projects" section was weak IMO. On any trade or craft you will find it is the same you mention. You become less and less dependent on them as you grow in experience. IMO, WW is specially suceptible to this boring factor. If you learn how to do grooves and dadoes, mortices and tenons and dovetails really well these 3 techniques will probably serve you well for 99.9% of your furniture making projects. What is even worse is that specialized techniques like housed dovetails are just variation of the same old techniques. I bought Tauton's joinery book and of the many dozens of joints they have there I have used 2 or 3 special ones other than the usual ones for a couple of projects.
I guess I am lucky I started woodworking late in life and I had the experience of photography as a hobby. When I first started I thought the latest and most expensive gizmo would make my photography easier and thus "better." Or that if I knew the latest or the most obscure developer formula my negatives would come out better, no such luck! We called it chasing the magic bullet, the one technique, gizmo, lens or camera that would make your negatives and prints masterpieces. I feel WW is the same and of course this is encouraged by the magazines since this is their meat and potatoes (e.i. advertising). A perfect example are hand planes and the "elusive" 0.00001 thousands of an inch shaving. I really don't understand this obsession with the waste part of a hand plane. I call this the Hasselblad syndrome. They sold few cameras to professionals, the bulk of the sales was to doctors and lawyers who could afford them, same with the wonder planes, professionals use those that leave a nice surface on the wood piece that is going to be used even if it only costs $100, doctors and lawyers buy the $1500 plane that is capable of the 0.0001 thou shaving, no?
Anyhow, to get back on topic, I feel FWW strikes a good balance, but of course they will never please everybody on every issue, this is just the nature of the beast.
You hit the nail on the head
"I really miss Woodwork, But their "projects" section was weak IMO."
That is exactly my thoughts, and why I like it so much. I have always glossed over most project articles. By the way, Woodwork is back currently and published annually.
"I call this the Hasselblad syndrome. They sold few cameras to professionals, the bulk of the sales was to doctors and lawyers who could afford them, same with the wonder planes..."
Yup. There's a discussion on this very topic going on in the Hand Tools folder under "New Brese Plane Is Awesome".
And Fine Woodworking does have a good balance, as good as any magazine.
I saw the thread
" Yup. There's a discussion on this very topic going on in the Hand Tools folder under "New Brese Plane Is Awesome"."
But I decided to stay out of it, it appeared to me to be more about egos and some animosity between some members than any real useful info. I see no problem with people buying these planes, in fact I lusted after Ron's miter plane, but decided that $1700 were better spent in wood so I settled for the LN #9 plane. In the end I am pretty sure the end grain in my wood doesn't know if I am using a Brese or LN plane :-)
I also stayed out of it since I don't really care how thin or thick my shavings are, so I had nothing to contribute. All I ask from a plane is that it does not chatter, I can sharpen the iron reasonably well and I can close the mouth to avoid tear out, my LV and LN planes do this at a fair price.
analogies
"I call this the Hasselblad syndrome. They sold few cameras to professionals, the bulk of the sales was to doctors and lawyers who could afford them"
Interesting observation. All of the Hasselblad users I've known have been working pros - mostly fashion, portaiture and product shooters for whom the "systems" approach was useful. In my circles, doctors and lawyers were better known for buying Leicas, and then never using them. ;-)
But, the analogy still works reasonably well . . . with non-photographers. ;-)
"I call this the Hasselblad
"I call this the Hasselblad syndrome. They sold few cameras to professionals, the bulk of the sales was to doctors and lawyers who could afford them"
I'd have to go with Ralph.
This isn't the forum but a majority of professionals I knew used Hasselblads and the art directors always looked for Victor's "tits". Babies, weddings and passport photographers and amateurs didn't use them but everyone else used hasseys --3 and 4 of them ...and 8 x10/4x5 views. They were tools of the trade for that size format. Expensive, but none the less, just depreciable tools. As to cost itself, they were cheap compared to the cost of a large ad shoot for a major company. They would pay for themselves in 4 - 6 jobs. They were the camera of choice when you couldn't afford a malfunction.
In production use they were no different than a full commercial woodshop using a fully gunned cabinet saw or an American/Euro slider instead of a roll around flip up or contractors saw.
Agree with David on main Topic.
Doctors did Leicas.
BB
Mel:
It's a fun video to watch regardless of the relevance to our types of woodworking. City hall (my other half as I so affectionately refer to her) enjoyed it as well. Not to get mixed up in the discussion, thanks for posting it.
Jim
My memory's good, it's just short.
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