As I understand it, in response to a growing demand for a quality dovetail saw in the mid 1990s, Pete Taran and Patrick Leach started Independence Tools to market one based on a 1830s English design. They considered this design to epitomize the perfect dovetail saw. Eventually the business was run by Pete Taran alone, and later sold to Lie Nielsen, who continue to sell this dovetail saw today.
Before IT was sold to LN, several hundred saws were built and sold. Every now-and-then one comes up for sale on eBay and generally sells for considerably more than the LN version that replaced it. About a month ago I won an unused Independence saw, and the gloat is that it was for less than a new LN.
Actually this is only half the gloat. You see, since the seller lived in the USA, I had the saw shipped directly to Mike Wenzloff.
I have owned the LN version of the Independence dovetail saw for the past few years. It does not get as much use as I hoped it would since it has been a little less than ideal in my experience. Now don’t misunderstand me – the LN is a fabulous saw, and I return to it more and more, and each time I do it seems to get better. It is just that I find it difficult to start a cut (no matter how I change the way in which I use it). The LN will “hop” a little, and the danger then is that I lose the line. I have another dovetail saw, a vintage $10 John Cotterill, which like the LN is sharpened 15 tpi rip with minimal set but moderate rake (sharpening and setting done by myself). This cuts slower but with greater ease and reliability than the LN. All who have used this saw really like using it. What I really want is a saw that looks like the LN and cuts like the JC.
The teeth on the LN are filed with zero rake for an aggressive cut. I asked Mike to work his magic on the IT. Shortly after receiving the saw Mike emailed me, “I don’t think this saw has ever sawn wood, so they are well shaped and set. But the rake is about 4 degrees or less. Much too little for your woods. I figure I’ll add 2-4 degrees of fleam, try it on Bloodwood, Lyptus and Jatoba. If it starts OK, then stop there. If not, add a little rake. All in all, if the fleam makes it easier to start then the impact on the usable depth simply wouldn’t be able to be measured”.
I picked up the saw at the Post Office this morning on the way to the Perth Wood Show. Over at the Fine Woodworking stand (a woodworking group I am a member of), I was able to try it out alongside a demonstration of saw sharpening (being run by a friend, who co-opted me into the demo). The demonstrator had his LN Independence on hand, and so I was able to try them out together. Well, I was impressed! The Independence cut more smoothly than the LN and there was no hint of grabbing on the piece of hardwood I was given (not sure what it was).
Back home I had a chance to do a short comparison with my LN, this time on Jarrah. How did the IT fare? The LN cuts well but it will grab at times (without warning). This new Independence is smooth and never grabbed, yet appears to cut as quickly/aggressively as the LN.
The two saws are very similar on a physical level, but there are differences.
View Image
LN op top, IT at the bottom
Both blades are 9” long. Both have Curly Maple totes. Both are filed 15 tpi rip.
Side-by-side it is very evident which is which. The LN has the more polished, better finished woodwork. However it looks machined, whereas the IT has a softer and rounded profile, one that looks Made by Hand.
IT at left, LN at right
Saw nuts:
So how do they compare in the hand? The totes feel quite different. The IT is softer, rounder than the LN but it is also thinner. The IT is 22 mm thick vs the LN at 23.5 mm. Across the center of the tote the IT is 33 mm thick while the LN is 36mm. The LN feels more substantial while the IT molds into the palm. I can see that this would polarize users – some will prefer the LN while others will prefer the IT. I need more time to decide.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Replies
Hi Derek,
Let me start by saying that I appreciate the time and effort you put into your tool reviews.
I experienced much the same thing with my Lie-Nielsen. I re-filed the teeth it and it cut easier. A little reshaping of the handle, and some Liberon finishing oil, and it now fits my hand perfectly.
Both refinements were surprisingly easy to execute. Neither required much in the way of special tools, time, or experience; just a little patience and attention to detail.
What I can't figure out is why so much is made, by both prospective buyers and reviewers, of relatively minor differences between tools when, with just a little time and effort, a competent craftsperson can make either tool sing; they are both high-quality tools.
If the differences between these two saws were as pronounced as, say, the difference between Groz and Lie-Nielsen planes, I might understand why so much time and effort is expended on these issues.
However, from my perspective, the differences seem more akin to nit-picking than constructive observations. As much as I may sound annoyed, I'm not; merely perplexed.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Hi JD
I hope it isunderstood that I am nitpicking with the LN. It is a very fine saw, and I do love using it. I must be absolutely clear that thisis not an anti-LN post. The primary intention of writing was that I am one of a few (no doubt) that own both the LN and the Independence, and I know that I used to wonder about the similarities/differences, that is, just how faithful the LN Independence dovetail saw is to the original Taran-made Independence Tools dovetail saw. What I can now say is that the differences are nitpicking, and the LN is indeed a faithful copy of the IT.
The LN is an extremely comfortable saw to hold, as is the IT, albeit there are differences in manufacturing the tote. The brass back and the steel look identical. In terms of cutting, the comparison is not LN vs IT - it is really LN vs Mike Wenzloff. Mike did a very fine job of tuning the teeth. They did not need much, but they benefitted from his hand. The complaint I have of the LN grabbing at the start is experienced my many other users. I can even see it in the DVDs of Rob Cosman. This is what perplexes me - why it needs to be. As it stands, as nice as the LN is, it is not as reliable as I would expect it to be. It cuts as straight as a die, but if it starts off line (if there is a little skip), then the accuracy of the final cuts suffer.
You suggest that these factors could (or should) be dealt with by woodworkers themselves. I agree to a point. All handtoolers should develop the skills to file saws in the same way as they develop the skill to hone their plane and chisel blades. On the other hand, the filing of a saw is still the Black Art for most. I can and do file rip teeth, and have done several dovetail saws. I am still a beginner on crosscut teeth, and I drew the line at filing the IT and LN saws. That is why I sent the IT to Mike, who knows more about this area that I ever could (thanks again Mike).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 8/13/2006 4:54 am ET by derekcohen
Derek, I think the snagging that you report at the start of the cut probably varies from user to user. If I've not used my Indepence Tool version of the saw for a while I find I snag up a little for the first few starts. After that initial relearning I find starts are plain sailing.
I can't compare my Independence Tool version with the Lie-Nielsen one, and it's possible that I've inadvertantly changed the tooth pattern of my saw through resharpening several times. It starts fine, and if it goes off line I can do a little twisting and bodging around to get it back in the right groove.
Incidentally, I've never heard anyone call a saw handle a tote before. Where did that peculiar name come from? For that matter I can't fathom out why people call the handle on a plane a tote either, particularly as I can't find any reference in my OED or even the American Webster's to tote meaning a handle or anything even like it. I can only guess that someone thought that tote meant handle and applied it and it stuck. Seems bloody odd to me because I'd rather call a spade a spade than something fancy that doesn't even seem to apply. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 8/13/2006 5:00 am by SgianDubh
Hi Richard
Yes, the term "tote" is an interesting choice. There are so many different ways to use it ..
A tote is a handle, be it the one for the rear of a plane or for a saw.
So why is the front handle on a plane not called a tote as well and instead called a knob?
A tote is also something one uses to carry items inside: a tool box can be a tote. A custom designed container for saws can be a saw tote.
I am sure that there are others.
With regard to the snagging, as I understand this, it has to do with the rake of the teeth - the more vertical the teeth, the more aggressive the cut, and the greater the chance of snagging. The John Cotterill I filed has much more rake than the LN. It never snags. But then it cuts more slowly. I am led to believe that speed in cutting is desirable in a dovetail saw since fewer saw strokes means less chance of cutting off the line. Hopefully this comment will produce a reply (either to confirm or explain another reason).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek, I'm aware that the teeth of saws set for ripping are vertical, or near vertical, on the front face, and yes, it leads to a more aggresive cut. Along with that there is the fairly wide gullet of a saw with 15 TPI (Teeth Per Inch) that can get hooked on the near corner as the cut is started.
The solution I use is to not start on a corner and just blast away on the flat surface presented at the top. A little practice and it should become second nature to you. There are those I suppose that will argue that you should start on a corner so that you can be sure you've got the right line. Maybe, or maybe not. If you can develop the knack of starting on the flat end grain facing upwards you just have to make sure the bloody thing is setting off in the right direction, and that's the end of it. These comments refer mostly to dovetailing of course.
There again there are things like lap dovetails where you can't just saw right across the end grain. Here I start as flat as possible, sort of hold the saw off the wood if you see what I mean and gradually drop the heel as required.
I do know that I can cut through dovetails very fast given enough motivation. I sometimes demonstrate what I call the 'five minute dovetail' just to spur my learners on in the belief that they too can do it if they use the three P's, i.e., practice, practice, practice.
Basically, I take two bits of softish hardwood like poplar, about 100 mm wide by 10- 12 mm thick (4" X 3/8" or 1/2") then mark and cut three tails, two full pins and two half pins and clear the waste between the lot and fit the corner together. I aim to do it five minutes or less.
In that situation I can't afford snags and hold up, and I use my Independence saw to do the job along with a mallet and a selection of chisels. It's just a case of saw the tails, clear the waste in one blow, saw the shoulders for the half pins with the same saw-- wrong tooth pattern I know, but what the hell. Mark the pins from the tails, saw the lines in, belt the waste out in about three blows of the mallet and chisels and fit it all together.
I usually get a pretty good fit, and more often than not it's an excellent fit. I admit I couldn't keep up this pace all day, and nor would I want to, but for a demonstration it's okay.
But, back to handles. I guess the name tote is sticking. As I said before I can't find any reference to the word tote meaning handle in the dictionaries I have-- the OED and the American Webster's, both large dictionaries too. I use big dictionaries because part of my income is derived from the written word so I tend to look up odd words.
There are tote bags, people tote things around, and the tote is a system for taking bets at horse races here in the UK. There also references to technical/scientific meanings for the word tote and that's about it.
Edited from here forward after doing further research.
I widened my search to the internet and consulted Wikipedia and several other references. None of the references I've researched define the word tote as a handle, with one group of exceptions, i.e., references that take me to descriptions of woodworking tools, particularly discussions of planes. I conclude through my reasonably in depth research today that the word tote has erroneously been applied to woodworking tool handles, especially plane handles.
I find it an ugly word to describe a handle anyway and I'm going to be a bit bloody minded and refuse to call a woodworking tool handle a tote. In fact I almost think there should be a campaign started to remove the word tote from the woodworking lexicon, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 8/13/2006 1:48 pm by SgianDubh
I am not sure about plane handles and the derivation of Tote with regards to planes. But the maker of saw handles was called a "saw handle maker" so I think we can say that calling a saw handle a "tote" is a fairly recent notion. But language changes and evolves over time. Sounds more sophisticated anyway.
Thank you for being the first to take a stand against "tote." I've always accepted the term but still refer to my saw's handles. I think tote to be somewhat pretentious. Now, what say we also include "fettle" to the dust bin?
sapwood, perhaps you're right, and fettle as a verb belongs in the woodworking terminology dustbin along with tote as a noun.
Or should I just go and fettle a tote? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
"Or should I just go and fettle a tote?"I think that's illegal in several states, Richard.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
> Now, what say we also include "fettle" to the dust bin?Why try to eliminate a perfectly good, clear, unambiguous word from English?http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=fettle BugBear
Well said, and I see no reason why the Americans should not hold onto tote either, if they so choose.
As Derek said, a tote can be a box or tray used for carrying things. It can also be used as a verb, as in 'the part of the plane used to tote it around the shop'. It's probably an Olde English thing.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Richard,
From Jos. Moxon's "Mechanick Exercises", my reprint of the 3d edition of 1703:
"Plains of several sorts: as, B1 (reference to an illustration) A Fore Plain, a The Tote. b The Mouth. c The Wedge. d The Iron. e The Sole. f The Fore-end. g The Britch. fgb The Stock. All together A Plane."
Moxon does not use "tote" in conjunction with saws, but "handle". Although what we think of as a handsaw or panel saw is not illustrated, his description of sharpening a saw and how to choose a good saw are clearly referring to a handsaw as we know it, not the frame saws in the illustration. And while his illustration of a tennant saw is an open frame saw, he describes it as having a back to stiffen the thin blade.
"Tote" as a noun is not in my Merriam- Webster dictionary. I'm pretty sure "britch" isn't either. But I'm gonna start using it. I think we should bring back more archaic terms as part of the art and mystery of our craft. But if you want to be contrary and go for simple terms, I'm sure we can HANDLE it.
Regards,
Ray
I agree that we should include more archaic terms to improve the image and status of the craft. It would go along with a secret handshake (requiring the use of only 4 fingers as a sign of an experienced woodworker). Also we could create funny hats to wear at woodworking shows to indicate our acceptance in the ancient craft. :)
d,
Funny hats? Ok, but I've already got dibs on Richard's; he said I could wear his.Our planes should wear caps over their irons as well.
See all those chairs, tables, and cupboards over there? Sgian built every one of 'em. Do they call him "Sgian, the cabinetmaker"? No. But!! ....You fettle one little tote...
Ray
Rolling around over that - I had need of the original Pierre joke last week explaining why one shouldnt rest on ones laurels on the last day supervising a 'band camp'
There you go Ray (and someone else earlier in this thread) finding use of the word tote as a noun. I guess it had to be out there somewhere. As has been said elsewhere in this thread (and in society generally) language is of course dynamic and new words come into vogue and old ones change their meaning. So, there it is- tote for handle, but I'll just be curmudgeonly and go against the flow and use handle, ha, ha.
Britch of course is in the dictionary. It's just a pair of trews with a leg missing.
You're welcome to borrow my hat. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
All you've said, especially the bit about the singular form of trouser, is sad, but trew.
Now our rabbets will be decently clothed, with britches to cover their nickers.
Ray
Urrgh, Ray. Those puns are pretty thin, ha, ha. Sadly, I have no snappy rejoinders. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
One britch is a part of a plane.
Two britches is one pair of pants.
Please don't confuse any more by re-introducing old terms.
Sean
sjf,
You sound a little britchy this morning.
Looking at the planes lined up on my bench there are several pairs of tight britches.
Have you ever had use for half a pair of pants? (Once I was hiking and just before the top of the ridge, my breath was coming in short pants.) Or half a pair of pliers? "Just sell me half a pair, I'm on a tight budget."
Ray
Now look here, I just gave explicit instructions to delete all mention of this word "tote" from my web site-it had made an insidious entry attempt here and there. I was under the impression, and intend to remain so, that the word was more appropriately associated with the likes of Long John Silver, Tonto, Buffaloe Bill and some other folk.
How's that for a snappy re-joiner?
BTW, the web site is http://www.marcouplanes.comPhilip Marcou
philip,
If you're gonna quote Moxon on your webfite, "tote" if liable to flip in there from time to time, af well af thofe funny looking effef.
Funny how the word tote haf apparently been kicking around Jolly Olde Englande fince the 1600'f (when Moxon firft printed the Exercifef), and you Britf and Kiwif refufe to accept it, and are trying to pufh it off onto piratef and cowboyf- more properly, it fhould be laid on the tonguef of the illiterate Appalachian mountaineers who ftill speak the King'f Englifh, today!
I alwayf ufe a chalk line when I want a fnappy rejoiner.
Refpectfully yourf,
Ray
Excellent, Ray. I see that you are a scholar, gentleman and poet to boot.I am pleased you checked out the web site. Philip Marcou.
Edited 8/18/2006 4:40 pm by philip
I agree with your praise of Derek's interesting and detailed commentary on the two saws and I also agree that the L-N saw (unmodified) is difficult to start. However, I'm not qualified to fiddle with the teeth on this $125 saw even though it does seem to need a bit to make it a truly great tool. In fact, when sawing dovetails, sometimes in frustration at the start of a cut I fall back on my French saw which is much easier to start though slower going once in the cut. Do you have a suggestion on where to turn for a professional tweaking of the teeth on the L-N?
"Do you have a suggestion on where to turn for a professional tweaking of the teeth on the L-N?"
Hi Jim,
I haven't a clue where to turn since Tom Law seems to have given up the saw sharpening game; I sharpen my own saws (except Japanese saws, the teeth of which are just too darned small).
Perhaps Derek will be willing to provide contact information for the gentleman who sharpened his saw.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Perhaps Derek will be willing to provide contact information for the gentleman who sharpened his saw.
The IT saw was resharpened by Mike Wenzloff, who is arguably the best sawmaker in the business presently. You can read some of the reviews of his saws in Popular Woodworking and in Chris Schwarz's blog: http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/SearchView.aspx?q=mike%20wenzloff
Mike can be contacted at http://wenzloffandsons.com/saws/
Mike often posts on Knots. Hopefully he will spot this thread and say a little about the changes he made to the IT teeth.
Regards from Perth
DereK
Edited 8/13/2006 1:09 pm ET by derekcohen
Mike often posts on Knots. Hopefully he will spot this thread and say a little about the changes he made to the IT teeth.
Hah--posting at the same time.
Mainly, for a rip saw with a thin sawplate, one can get away with a lot. there's simply less material to push through the kerf.
I know what I shot for on Derek's IT--but I have no idea if I made those figures. The saw was roughly 4 degrees of rake and zero fleam angle, as is customary on the saw. When one is sawing the nasty timbers Derek uses, a little fleam angle--the angle a tooth is beveled like a cross cut--will do two things.
One, it will make the saw easier to start. Two, it makes the saw easier to start. Ok, I only had one point. By keeping the rake near the 4 degree area and adding a skosh of fleam, it provided a good fast cut in similar woods I had on hand. But like I mentioned, I have no idea how much rake I altered it, nor how much fleam angle was added. I sharpen by hand mostly, and so I am not too concerned.
Take care, Mikeback to milling brass...
My ears were burning...now I know why.
There are a few places to have your saws sharpened. Steve Cooke is one. I have heard nothing but good about him.
http://www.cookessharpening.com/
We of course are another. We do charge more than Steve, so that may be a consideration. Contact info is in my profile.
As to the IT saw in Derek's comparison of fit and finish. The way it feels in the hand is different than the raw numbers show. The rounding off the flats on the handle is more than an aesthetic. But as mentioned: we are woodworkers and it is a simple thing to do using anything from a pocket knife and sandpaper to a rasp or file.
I'm fairly shameless when it comes to tool modification. Doesn't bother me a bit I might be ruining my children's ability to get more for the tools when I pass on! So whether it is a handle on a saw or a plane, the way something is sharpened, my sentiment is simply do it. At worse, even sharpening your own hand saw, it would need to be sent off to another person. Ain't gonna cost more and you may just end up more self-reliant in another area. The worse thing about sharpening a saw is the intimidation factor, the fear of messing it up.
Just go slow. With each stroke of the file you are changing the geometry a little more than you can see on small teeth. Follow Pete Taran's directions, they are pretty darn good:
http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html
And if you get stuck somehow and make a mess of things, just pop a message on your favorite forum and someone will help get it sorted out. And, well, if you come to find it isn't worth the aggrevation, then send it to someone.
Take care, Mike
What do you use to adjust the set of the teeth? Where is a good source for files that are small enough for a 15 tpi saw? I haven't had much luck here in Milwaukee."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 8/13/2006 2:43 pm by highfigh
Hi Highfigh,
Two places for really good files are Pete Taran's VintageSaws web site [Bahco/Sandvik] and Lie-Nielsen [Grobet]. I prefer the Grobet, but they are probably of comparable quality.
For Nicholson files, either Tools for Working Wood or Lee Valley. I also can get them from my local hardware store in a pinch.
Don't forget a decent flat file for jointing as well. This will even out the tooth tops and basically show which teeth are larger than other. In reality, these teeth were taller than those around them.
Plan on making a few passes, especially if this is your first time or if there is a lot of filing needed. It's not a race and you will get faster at it.
Filing a saw isn't something mystical. There are people better than others--just like everything else. Auras are built up around those which are simply really good at it. But chances are the saw will work so much better when you are done, it will be a revelation as to how a saw should cut. All it takes is practice to get better.
Also, if this is your first saw, consider picking up a larger handsaw on the cheap to get a feel for the motion involved. The larger scale helps to see what you are doing.
For saw sets, consider picking up one or both of the sets Joel sells at Tools for Working Wood. The blue one has a finer strike pin, which makes it better for small teeth. The gold colored one is for larger teeth, say 11 ppi or so and down. They are inexpensive but work well and will last the occassional user for many years.
Don't squeeze the set like you are squeezing a lemon [i.e., as hard as you can]. Just a light pressure evenly applied to all the teeth. Start out with the lowest setting, or perhaps a little from it. Pay no attention to the numbers on the anvil, except as a relative reference of fine to a lot of set. One key is the evenly applied pressure form tooth to tooth.
When done, do a test cut in something like hard Maple or Lyptus or Bloodwood. Bubinga saws well too. Point being, if the saw pulls on direction or the other, use a regular sharpening stone [not a waterstone] or a diamond plate and beginning at the heel, take light stroke down the teeth clear to the toe on the side it veers to. Try it again until the saw cuts straight.
Also, if the kerf is a little wider than you want, lightly stroke each side with the stone with even pressure. Try again, and if necessary, do it to both sides again, make sure it cuts true, and if not, stone only the side it cuts off to. Don't try to reset the teeth as you may break them.
Take care, Mike
The places around me have Nicholson but not in the smaller sizes. IIRC, #5 or 6 is about the smallest they usually carry. I know the theory behind saw sharpening, just haven't had any practice since I'm not trying to sharpen a pit saw or anything particularly large. My large crosscut saw is OK but my rip isn't and I have another backsaw that needs to be resharpened for crosscuts. Thanks for the info on the sets, though.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The places I mention with the exception of my local hardware store all carry the smaller sizes.
Take care, Mike
Thanks, you too.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hi Jim,
Wanted to make sure you were notified of the new posts re: saw sharpening services, as they were inadvertantly addressed to me instead of you.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Yup. Got 'em. I'm totally ignorant of the sharpening subtleties, so I'm thinking about sending the saw to one of the knowledgeable people. Thanks.
I have a relatively new LN saw and noticed it didn't cut quite as well as when I first got it. I've filed my saws for years but had some bad habits. So I read the article at vintage saws for a self tune-up. Then I grabbed my $125 saw and filed that puppy. It cuts great now. Was this an intimidating thing to do? Not really. I regularly set saw or router to task on some very costly wood and other material. Why should I hesitate with a lump of steel? I encourage you (and others) to do the same.
Where are you? If it weren't so darn hot in Orlando I'd invite you down to visit Disney World with a stop-off at my shop so you could show me how. I'm too chicken to do it without at least seeing someone else do it first.
You could consider getting Tom Law's video on sharpening hand saws. The Best Things and LN sell it, as I suppose others do.
The linky for The Best Things is:
http://www.thebestthings.com/books/dvd_handsawsharpening.htm
Take care, Mike
Both saw handles, while pretty, are doomed to lose those curlicue tips if the saws see any real use, the IT first because they are too skinny
Tha attached photo is the basis behind the default DT saw we make. This saw is near 150 years old. They can last with a modicum of care. I've got more than a dozen of this vintage. The horns are fine, though obviously show wear and small chips.
Of course, all bets are off if dropped on a concrete floor...
Take care, Mike
mwenz,
I feel stupid asking this question but how do you tighten the screws on an LN dovetail saw? I thought before I start scratching it up with screw drivers and hammers..maybe there is a right way? thanks
Hah. No worries, BG.
Two paths. Purchase a nice looking split nut driver from LN, or make one.
To make one, find a wore out 3/8" or 7/16" hex-drive spade bit--or purchase one. It'll only be a buck or so if you buy the cheap ones.
Grind the tip off, file a notch into it using a small round file. 5/32" file, or use a flat file on edge to create the notch.
You will probably need to thin the spade bit so it fits the slot.
Take care, Mike
Mwenz,
Thanks, that helps a lot. The LN cost $25 so I think I'll try my hand at tool making....
Hi BG,
I just remembered my friend Leif has a little tutorial on this:
http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/oldtools/sn-screw2/rivet1.htm
Just subsitute the spade bit if you go that way for where he is using raw O1 steel. The hex drive spade bit is kinda nice because it is hardened, they are cheap, and they fit any hex drive screwdriver...
Take care, Mike
Mwenz,
That is a handy tutorial Lief put together, I'm going to steal some of the ideas. I'm thinking of taking either the spade bit or my wife's weed remover tool (has forked end),,she'd be so happy.
I have some bloodwood which could be ripped up the middle, glued with brown paper bask together and turned on the lathe. I could then remove the brown paper and some of the middle to accomodate the modified spade bit and epoxy everything back together....might look a bit like LN's. Thanks again
All will ignore this, but if you file off the teeth at the front of the blade of the saw for approx 1 1/2 to 2 inches so it becomes a marking/scribing knife then you will not get the juddering. Try it on a cheap saw!
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