Replies

1. 
   HeavyD | Apr 15, 2005 01:30am | #1

   dac,

   I'm a newbie and I'm in a similar type boat, get a less expensive saw or save.  I have used several craftsman products over the years and have been very unempressed with all of it.  I have done good work with them, but it's harder.  I have used cabinet and contractor saws from several other manufacturers and all I can say is "like butter". Man are they sweet.  If had no money (which I don't) and someone gave me a craftsman saw I would tweak it and go for awhile and then sell it.  I'd say go for a good contractor style instead.  just my thoughts.  dave

2. 
   nikkiwood | Apr 15, 2005 06:59am | #2

   Let's see now .......... you are currently "suffering" with a Craftsman saw and are looking to "junk" it.

   So, why ever would you consider buying another Craftsman saw?

   Yeah, I know there have been some "good" reviews of the new Craftsman hybrid, but still.................

   As for reviews, Sears is a heavy advertiser in many wwing mags. And sometimes I think if a Sears machine can walk and chew gum at the same time, they will give it a "favorable" review.

   Generally, I think there is a lot of advertiser pressure on wwing mags -- most of it subtle, but sometimes overt. FWW seems to be an exception; I remember hearing a long time ago that Grizzly pulled out because the FWW reviewers never had much good to say about their equipment.

   "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
   -- Bertrand Russell

1. 
   Handrubbed | Apr 19, 2005 04:36am | #9

   Totally agree that a healthy bit of scepticism is in order when you look at these tool reviews. I noticed a Sears screwdriver reviewed in the same issue of the magazine... a $5.00 screwdriver! Careful. Who's making their stuff now? Not Emerson. Must be Taiwan. The review didn't say. Remember Sears = K Mart.

3. 
   EvilTwin | Apr 15, 2005 05:20pm | #3

   If you go over to the woodnet forumns, a bunch of folks have bought the "zip code" version (22124 or model 35504) saw with the beismeyer fence. With various discounts it can be had in the 6-700 price range. General consensous is that it is a good saw for the money, full cabinet design with the trunnion mounted to the cabinet vs. the top and the bies fence speaks for itself. Lots of craftsman lovers and haters on that site too, but this saw seems to break the mold of sears more recent offerings. Its not a full 3hp motor but that should not stop 95 percent of what most people use these tools for. If it gets more pricey then you might want to look at Griz for the 1023 or a used saw if you can find it. Good Luck.

1. 
   DAC | Apr 15, 2005 07:02pm | #4

   Thanks for the feedback...interesting that no one who purchased one of these saws is reading these forums... 

   dac/

1. 
   steelheader | Apr 15, 2005 09:00pm | #6

   I have one and I am extremely happy with it. Shane

   and Dave I am glad you told us you are not a empress, but I think you probably meant unimpressed

2. 
   Lightman | Apr 16, 2005 02:55am | #7

   dac, do a search of 21124 and you should come up with lots of posts. I did one on mine back in Jan

   Jimmy

   as always I wish you enough

3. 
   taf3435 | Apr 19, 2005 05:46pm | #10

   I just got one - it's great.

   fyi - there'll be a Sears one day sale on Saturday the 23rd - the 22124 should be on a pretty healthy sale, < $800.  Use the 10% off coupon on top of that and you'll get a good deal on a decent saw. 

    

1. 
   DAC | Apr 19, 2005 06:07pm | #11

   thanks for the feedback.. from all the responders...

   what can I say, I went with a General 50-220C  ... got a fair price at a woodworking show in Sacramento...   seems it got good reviews in recent tool reviews for 2005..

   dac.

    

1. 
   Dustmight | Apr 20, 2005 02:01am | #12

   Hi dac - I'd be interested to hear your feedback when you get the 50-220 up and running. Did you get the Biese fence option?

2. 
   DAC | Apr 20, 2005 03:20am | #13

   should take receipt in a coouple weeks..   and yes, absolutely got the T-Fence.. its made by "General"... but looks to be a clone of Biesemeyer -- worth the extra money.

   dac

3. 
   lumberjacksson | Apr 20, 2005 09:21pm | #15

   General liscenced the beis design.

4. 
   dwright | Apr 20, 2005 10:41pm | #16

   A FWW article on aftermarket fences some years ago included a short profile of Bill Biesemeyer.  He invented the "T" square style fence that many (including me) consider to the the best design, set up the patent process, and then surprised the competition by refusing to file the patent.  His action essentially made it impossible for others to patent the design, yet allowed anyone to use the design.  That's why Bies clones can be found under every rock.  It's a great design.  I put one on my Delta Contractors Saw years ago, and then went with SawStop's version last year when I bought their cabinet saw.

5. 
   lumberjacksson | Apr 21, 2005 01:26am | #17

   Interesting.  I was given the impression by my general dealer that it was a liscenced product, and I guess without the exchange of royalties it essentially is then.

    

   Andy

4. 
   chipo | Apr 15, 2005 07:49pm | #5

   I have one, and am generally quite happy with it. Of course, it's my first table saw, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. They're made by Orion, which IIRC was founded by some ex-Delta and Jet folks.

   Things I like:

   It's big and solid.
   The fence is as accurate as I could wish for (angled a couple thou away from the blade at the back, as it should be, out of the box).
   It's left-tilt.
   It's easy to align the table to the blade, thanks to the cabinet-style design.
   The blade guard is trivially easy to take off and put on without messing up its alignment.
   The blade it comes with doesn't completely suck (though I've since replaced it).
   All that and it only cost me $600, less tham some contractor saws.

   Things I don't like:

   The splitter gets slightly out of plane with the blade on 45° bevels, though not too much to be a real problem.
   The miter gauge has that nice built-in extension, clamp and flip stop, but underneath it's the standard miter gauge design, which I hate. I'm going to replace it with an Incra or something.

   
   

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   Edited 4/15/2005 1:19 pm ET by ChipO

5. 
   haroldp | Apr 16, 2005 04:08am | #8

   I bought mine in December, I replaced a Jet Contractor saw. The Biesemeyer fence is a dream. The fit and finish of this saw is very good. The only problem was the Biesemeyer table board. But this warping is also true of the units supplied to the Unisaw.

   This saw is solid. The mitre gauge is good, however I had a incra 2000 from the Jet so I am using that. I don't think you will be dissapointed if you get this saw. I bought for $760.00 less the Craftsman Club Discount which put the price below $700.00. I havent seen any saw you could purchase for Under $800.00 which comes with the features this saw has.

   I ripped some 10FT oak boards with a full kerf Freud LM72 blade and was pleasantly surprised by how well the saw handled the tough 40 year old boards.

   The thin kerf Leitz blade is very good but could benefit from a stabilizer. The saw is also very quiet.

   I am very happy with mine.

   Harold

6. 
   dwright | Apr 20, 2005 02:02pm | #14

   Readers of the FWW review might well come away with the understanding that the new Craftsman is the equivalent of a Unisaw or other mainstays of the cabinet saw market.  For that FWW should be ashamed.  Don't get me wrong - the Craftsman appears to be a fine homeshop saw.  It's just not the equal of a Unisaw.  The trunnions are connected by rods instead of thick iron castings.  The height and bevel gearsets are contractor saw duty.  Adjustment wheels are thin and small plastic instead of large and heavy polished castings.  1 3/4 HP is indeed enough for most situations, but will not match up to a 3 HP over the long haul and wide ranging applications of some woodworkers.  Again...evidently a fine saw and a good dollar value...capable of high quality work and reliable service for many years in moderate use...but not in the same class as the Unisaw/PM66/Gen350 crowd.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Apr 22, 2005 10:51pm | #21

   Dang ys been 'LOOKIN'' really close..  Good for you!

    

7. 
   cherryjohn | Apr 21, 2005 01:25pm | #18

   Did you read the newest FWW where they did a review on that saw and when it arrived the saw blade wouldnt clear the throat plate?  So they had to take the top off and elongate the 4 holes and move the top so it would clear.  Maybe easy for FWW to do but I might have a hard time doing that to a cast iron top in my shop. 

   Wicked Decent Woodworks

   (oldest woodworking shop in NH)

   Rochester NH

   " If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"

   
   

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   Edited 4/21/2005 6:29 am ET by CHERRYJOHN

1. 
   DAC | Apr 21, 2005 06:32pm | #19

   thanks for the note to check FWW....  from your note, looks like the Craftsman has some QC problems with manufacturing...   and helps me feel even happier that I went with the 50-220C General....

   dac

1. 
   cherryjohn | Apr 21, 2005 07:39pm | #20

   For whats it worth, that would be my choice.  The Craftsman is considerably less money but I would hate to get something delivered and have a major problem like a misaligned top stop me cold.Wicked Decent Woodworks

   (oldest woodworking shop in NH)

   Rochester NH

   " If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"