Hello to all, I’m new to the forum, and fairly new to woodworking as well. An older gentleman across the street gave me his craftsman table saw because he doesn’t use it anymore. I looked it up online and from what I can tell, it was manufactured in 1990. It’s a great saw, fits perfectly in my workroom, but the fence is not the greatest. I don’t like the measure gauge, and the twist handle to release the fence is a pain. Not to mention I ALWAYS have to check to make sure it’s square with the blade ever time I cut. I’d like to find a better fence system but I also don’t want to break the bank to do it. I’m hoping someone can recommend a decent fence system that reasonably priced and accurate. Thanks!
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
you can check out Vega fences.
http://www.vegatools.com (i think)
I just put one on my old craftsman about $200
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
View Image
Try http://www.vegawoodworking.com/
The Mulecab Accusquare is another nice, reasonably priced fence (like the Vega).
http://www.mulecab.com/TableSaw/
I have a mid-80's Craftsman that I totally reworked a few years ago. I bought the Craftsman XR2424 fence and it's been excellent - except for the "micro-adjust" thingy. It's a total waste.
You'll probably get some responses from people trashing your saw and they'll be somewhat correct. "Out of the box", Craftsman saws aren't very good and their fences and miter gauges are best used as paper weights. If you take the time to carefully dial them in, however, they can do almost anything a far more expensive saw can do.
Spend the time to get the arbor and blade perfectly parallel with the miter slot, dump the vee belt and get a link belt, buy machined pulleys, get the extension tables aligned with the saw table and buy a decent fence and spend the time to get it set up right. When you're done, you'll have learned a lot about setting up a saw and you'll have one that will serve you well for a lot of years.
I've looked at the Vega at Rockler. (The website is vegawoodworking.com by the way) I'll have to go in search of the mulecab and the xr2424 and see how they feel in comparison. At $200 +, I want to make sure I get exactly what I want because it will have to last me a long long time. Other than the fence I'm very happy with the saw and don't see a need to worry about upgrading the pulleys or the belt at this point. In reality, how much of a difference would that make anyhow?I look at it this way, the saw cuts well, has never bogged down on me, and was absofreakin-lutely free. All I had to do was carry it home.
Howdy...Mine's a 10" 1976 vintage Crafstman contractor saw with cast iron top, steel extensions, and sheet steel cabinet and legs. Sound familiar?Dave is dead-on with his advice. The miter gauge and fence are pretty bad, though I've managed to learn how to use the fence without knocking it out of whack too often. Fence:
Never move it by touching any part other than the cast aluminum head - that'll minimize stress on the alignment joint in the head. Keep the rail and the head underside sliding surfaces well coated with paste wax - makes a *huge* difference.Vibration:
The cast pulleys and segmented belt make another major and inexpensive upgrade - well worth the $30+ it'll cost. Be sure the pulleys are aligned!One of my headaches was that the table would wobble - disconcerting at the least. I discovered that the cabinet sheet metal was distorting because of very stupid bolt placement at the leg connections. Bolts are 'way inward from the cabinet edge, and everything can flex. Simple addition of four 1/4" bolts - one at each corner and as far out into the corner as you can get them - works wonders.Extensions:
Maintenance of cut integrity makes extension alignment very worthwhile - Dave is again right on the mark.Worst:
The arbor is also very poorly wrought. Mine was too short to mount a respectable dado set. When I did mount one, it wouldn't cut a flat-bottomed dado because the arbor diameter is really squirrely over its full length save for about 1/8" right at the flange. It was literally under diameter by an average of .030", and "pretty straight." Lord luv a duck. Low bidder got us again.I designed a replacement (copy attached below) and had it fabbed at a local machine shop for $80. Best thing I could have done - it'll swing a 13/16" dado set without protest and produces gorgeous cuts. Arbor replacement made another quantum leap in relieving runout-induced vibration. Also virtually eliminated kerf marks in workpiece (a premium blade can't fix a lousy arbor.)The fit on this thing is so close that the arbor nut is marginally easy to spin on/off when the machine's cold, but won't spin when the shaft warms up a bit - not tight, but certainly not loosey-goosey any more. Only drawback is that it takes an extra 15 seconds or so to mount/remove blades - the fit tolerance is exceptionally close - worth it, though, every time you even *think* the word "dado."You may find that lower-grade blade holes will have to be reamed ever so lightly to fit over the new arbor - cheapie manufacturers will let their tooling go a little undersized before changing it out, secure in the knowledge that cheapie buyers have cheapie arbors. I've had no problems whatseover with Freud, CMT, Forrest, or Tenryu.Hope this has been a little helpful.Ahhh, nuts. Something somewhere isn't letting me upload the drawing image. It's only 15k - will Email it to you directly.BTW - hope you enjoy the forum - there are some really great folks contributing, and a lot of willing sharing of expertise. I've begun sharing a few things just to help pass around ideas (not that mine are great, but one person's idea might spark brilliance on someone else's part) - see http://www.primeshop.com/access/woodworkRegards,---John
John, I would also like to see you arbor design. I tried the like and it would not show any thing.
Thanks, MikeWe are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett
Hi, Mike...Gonna try again to see if it'll go this time. Ratz - failed again. I bit the bullet and posted it here:
http://www.primeshop.com/access/woodwork
Click the "Table Saw Tuneup" link.BTW - the link to the site works - there may have been a momentary server glitch, but it's there and accessible. Let me know if you have trouble again!Regards,---John
Edited 6/2/2005 9:46 pm ET by John
Hi John, I am still having problems with the link. When I select it I just get a blank page. Could you just email it to me.
Thanks, MikeWe are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett
I went to their home page, wandered all over the place, still couldn't find it. That's one of the weirdest web sites, organization- and focus-wise, I've ever visited. Let us know if you find the tune-up page.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
and to Mike...Arrrgh - apologies - too tired, got in hurry , and didn't check HTML against MSInternetExplorer (which I never use.) Ennahoo, it's now accessible via *your* browsers (at least via my version of MSIE, that is.) NOW please patiently try one more time, and let me know ya got there OK.---John
Thanks, John I got it now.We are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett
Whew! Glad to have finally putzed through *that*...! Thanks for letting me know.
---John
"At $200 +, I want to make sure I get exactly what I want because it will have to last me a long long time." No problem with the MuleCab Accusquare -- they offer a 90-day money-back guarantee. Last year in one of the threads, I think 4 or 5 people with old Craftsman saws piped up and bragged about how well the Accusquare worked for them. Here's the link for the MuleCab. Here Dick Durbin's thread about his new Accusquare.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Re Accusquare etc:
I've been leery of fences that don't lock at both ends for fear of getting deflection at unsupported end. (That's why I keep making do with the original Craftsman rinky-dink.... it takes a little patience and strong wrists, but the danged thing surely does lock up tight!) Any experiential feedback?My *real* bugaboo is the miter gauge ... or crossdoober, in Craftsman's case. It works perfectly well so long as you *never* change the angle and are willing to spend time with center punching and filing for slot fit. Been salivating over the Incra 5000 ...Thanks!---John
"Any experiential feedback?" I haven't heard any specific complaints, but that wouldn't be conclusive. The Biesemeyer doesn't lock in back either, haven't heard a lot of clamor about it shifting during use, LOL. The Accusquare uses a "twist lock" mechanism, which would take some getting used to. According to their description, it stays parallel even when you're moving it from Point A to Point B.
I like the idea of a dual cursor and being able to adjust it easily if a blade change makes it necessary. (Actually, right now I don't even use the tape on my saw, it's so funky.)
"Been salivating over the Incra 5000." Oooo, going whole hog, eh? I have the 1000 and love it. Don't like the 2000 though.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 6/3/2005 12:28 pm ET by forestgirl
Hmmm...
Have read a couple of comparison tests (not always reliable) showing as much as .010" deflection during cut on some of the better one-end fences. Not necessarily a deal-breaker, but that's enough to cause sliding parts to bind (or wiggle overmuch if you open up the joint to accommodate the error.)Fence ruler? What fence ruler? Yah, I know - every blade change carries a different zero, and adding an aux fence tosses the lot. Actually, I've used a Lufkin folding rule forever (no, not the same one!), and only use the fence tape marks to target change one way or t'other. In truth, I think that's prudent - no two rules read the same, and it's safer to measure the whole of a project with a single ruler....at least, so methinks. (It's what I learned, it's what I've always done, and it's always worked - therefore, it must be right, he huffed, righteously stamping his bunioned foot ... har.)
----------
Uhhh - the 5000 *is* the 3000, but with a coupla hunks o' red stuff tossed in for 30 bucks. I'd very much like to hear of your objections to the 3000. It's always aggravated me to get a perfect angle set up, and then run into the one workpiece that requires the opposing cut angle. The 3000's 364 stops, vernier, +/- 90 swing, and the loooong bar with a flip stop (I get really impatient with wrestling with stop blocks and C-clamps with only 2 hands) sounds like just the ticket, but I also see a lot of fussy-looking parts. Would like to know what downsides you perceive before tossing that much extra money in the pot!
------------Y'know, no one really needs all that stuff to do good work. Take enough time, and you can make a useful one-time gauge out of a couple of sticks and some glue. You've probably inferred that I'm a bit fussy, and I'm willing to spend whatever time it takes to get a set up "right" before cutting anything. Trouble is, that can eat up huge gobs of time, and I'd like to make life a little easier for myself now that I'm old (have always been crotchety... ;-) It would be great to be able to get accurate miter setup changes in jig time (pardon the pun.)Keep smilin' ...---John
Ooooops, I meant 2000. Went back and changed it in my post. Never could understand why they made a 1/4-circle gauge that's such a hassle to change over.
In truth, I don't know if I'd ever use a fence tape all that much. I just got a Lufkin folding ruler (funny you should mention it), so haven't gotten into the habit of using it yet, but once I cut a piece of stock, I tend to use it to set the fence when it's been moved and needs to go back. Only time I use the fence tape now is when I'm trying to "nudge" the fence a "smidge" -- use those funny little vertical marks <g> to judge the size of the smidge.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have the Incra 3000 and although it was a little painful to spend that much money, it was worth it. I really like the ability to lock in 1/2* increments.
Hi, Dave...Thanks for input. Agree re price, but that's one of those things you can't too easily fab for yourself, and the 1/2* + vernier capability is REALLY attactive, at least to me. Personally, I think that $100 for a miter gauge is outrageous - - perversely, the step from outrageous to downright goofy is easier for me than was getting to outrageous in the first place. I assume that for that price, getting it zeroed isn't a three day affair....?And a cuppa cost $5, too ... LOLRegards,---John
When I got mine, the "learning curve" was about 2-3 hours and I found that it was dead-on right out of the box. I have no doubt that I could have made something to do the same job, but would have probably put a few days into it before I got it right.
As I get older, I'm finding that the self reliant, super-stud, he-man thing is beginning to wear thin. Last week, I decided that I've done my last driveway oil changes. I've done all my own auto maintenance for over 40 years and the idea of spending $25 - $30 at the local Jiffy-Lube looks better every day. - lol
Hi, Dave...Me too, a brother men.
Thanks, Dave! Looks like I'm gonna git me one a' them there. Boy, we're singing' outta the same book - I finally began to hire a few of those chores done for myself, and it was like getting out jail!---John
Incra 3000 .. I love my Incra 1000SE? Sort of that nomenclature..
I have most all of the Incra stuff.. I fine it in the way for most woodworking.. BUT! If I need something EXACT.. I haul it out and put on my Saw or router table.. I do not have the Incra thing with rails for the saw fence...
If I could affords it I'd get it! BEST fence EVER if you can affords... I would guess from the other stuff.
Edited 6/5/2005 4:01 pm ET by Will George
Edited 6/5/2005 4:03 pm ET by Will George
Happened to rear your post asking how much improvement you'd get from a new linkbelt..I recently bought a Jet contractors saw. Read all sorts of books and tuned the heck out of it. Was very very pleased with it.Had a few bucks last week and went ahead and sprung for the link belt. I have to say, it is absolutely amazing. The saw was extremely smooth before (would pass the "nickle test....ie...could stand a nicle on edge with the saw running)but now, with the link belt, I can literally stand a dime on edge with the saw running. I did not replace the pulleys but the stock pulleys look to be machined anyway.Cut's, particularly through veneer plywood, are much cleaner with almost zero ripout using nothing but the stock insert(I haven't had time to make any zero clearance inserts yet).Prioritywise...I would certainly get the best fence I could first and tune it as close to perfect as I could get it, but dont underestimate the improvement that a link belt will provide. It's really amazing that something as rough looking as the link belt could give sucha dramatic improvement, even on a saw that was running real smooth to begin with.
I'll second the praise of the Vega. It's rugged, easy to install, easy to use, repeatable, accurate, and the microadjustment works well. (starting at ~$230 through Amazon). FWIW, the Vega was rated best buy by Wood Mag.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-2231661-0176044
The Mulecab works well and has t-slots, but's aluminum and not quite as rugged as the Biese types or Vega. It also has a twist lock to clamp it down if that's a feature you're averse to.
Grizzly sells a good clone of the Biese Homeshop fence (Aluma Classic). It has steel rails and a steel fence tube clad with aluminum faces with t-slots. It's even on sale for $190 plus s/h. http://www.grizzly.com/products/items-list.cfm?key=240140
Not to mention I ALWAYS have to check to make sure it's square with the blade ever time I cut.
Hell.. I do THAT and have a good fence ang gauge! Measure twice and cut once I say!
I have a 50" Vega fence. It's a joy to use. It's accurate, stays square, and is easy to set & lock. I wish they had one on the saw at work.
Joe
When I had a General, I opted for an Excaliber. There were several things I like about it. First, the reference face was very flat, second it was easily calibrated to squarenes with the blade, and held the calibration for quite a while; third, it would not deflect even under very heavy loads; and fourth, I could attach hold down/anti-kickback devices, since it gripped at both the front and back, it would not deflect upward. One of the few add-ons I have owned, that worked as advertised.
Ditto on the Vega Fence. I replaced my Jetfence with the small Vega and really like it. Consider getting their finger saver attachment that combines a narrow push stick with the top rail of the fence. This is a significant safety enhancement. The fence adapts very easily with no drilling (on my Jet).
I have the finger saver and I'd have to say that I'm "luke warm" about it. I find the home made gripper to be a better device (I can only imagine that an official gripper is even better).Here are my complaints about the finger saver.It comes off either end - typicaly I pull it back too far and have to get it back on.Since it runs on three wheels it is a pain in the neck to get back in its tracks.The "l" shaped holder falls in the way sometimes or is a pain to get out of the way.With long boards you have to work around the device until your stock reaches the "L" holder. Transition to the "L" holder is a bit tricky.This may be specific to my TS, but the device puts so much pressure down on the stock that it flexes my throat plate and as a result twists the wood. (particularly with boards that are less than 16" or so). To counter act, I need to use another push stick to hold down the left side of the stock (Opposite the fence).Frankly for the $30 or $40, I think you're better off with one or two grippers...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
View Image
Consider getting their finger saver attachment that combines a narrow push stick with the top rail of the fence.
QS,
How does theirs work? Is it a versatile T-track system to which you can attach a tapering jig, feather boards, shop-made fixtures, etc.?
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
No, the track is the entire horizontal top surface of the aluminum beam fence. As far as I know this finger saver is the only attachment. You could attached a secondary fence into some predrilled holes that they supply and use regular t-track to attach holddowns, featherboards, etc. I have found the fingersaver to be very effective and I use it on every rip that involves stock narrower than about 4-5 inches. It is very clever and exerts both downward and forward pressure simultaneously.
QS,
Thanks for the input,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I hope you are not getting too much information, but that is what forums are good at.....the Vega products are kind of unique in that they are simply engineered and not necessarily pretty to look at, like an Incra product would be. The Vega designer must be kind of a sophisticated tinkerer who has some really good ideas. He really puts the stuff together though, and doesn't worry about fancy finishes. Example: the aluminum parts are not all anodized; some are painted or left raw. I would have liked to see anodizing, but it probably keeps the cost down.
MJMeyer-
I'm also new and I just got a 10" Jet saw and put a Vega fence on it- I'm very impressed. It is easy to set up/use and super accurate... also has a microadjustment feature which I find handy.
Sounds like so far the Vega has gotten the most votes. I used the saw last night to build some planters for my garden, I was ripping 1x6 cedar planks, but it still took alot of fiddling to get the fence just right, and even after all that, I could tell one of the cuts wasn't 100%. That old craftsman fence HAS TO GO. For what's it worth though, my wife loved the planters and didn't notice any flaws, but I still knew they were there, and it bugs me. And when I start on building the cabinets for the bathroom, it has to be perfect.
I promise you that you will not regret dumping the craftsman fence you have for the Vega. I did it in January and wondered afterwards why I waited so long. See the new setup here: http://www.pbase.com/durrenm/wood_shopMark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
View Image
That is a nice looking setup, and the saw seems to just a little familiar looking. Rest of the shop looks nice too, I'm working out of a 12'x15' room that I sectioned off in the basement. Thanks for the pics, now the part I'm terrible at, saving up for it. :D
MJ
Thanks. It's about 350 square feet (11.5 foot ceilings!)The shop has been rearranged since these pics were taken to make better use of the space. However, I still need dust collection. That's what I'm saving for now (Though I'd really love a sawstop - I'll get by with the craftsman).The shop floor is not level (lower in the middle) So I'm thinking about building a false floor (raise everything 2") plus I like standing on wood instead of concrete...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
View Image
Did you get the utility or the pro version?
Where did you purchase it from?
The only place I have found for the pro fence is at Amazon.
I got the 36" fence length, 50" to the right, so I guess that's the utility version. It's kinda big, but once I get a piece of melamine put up there it will double as an extra table I can use for assembly, routing, etc. If you can get it elsewhere you'll probably save $... I'm starting to learn that Rockler doesn't exactly emulate Wal-Mart in their pricing structures, although I did a quick google just now and haven't found it any cheaper elsewhere, including amazon.JLO
Rockler doesn't exactly emulate Wal-Mart in their pricing structures.. LOL.. LOL..
I shop there not for price... They usually HAVE it there when I need it and no waiting..
Well, usually... If not I drive 50 miles to my Woodcraft.. ...doesn't exactly emulate Wal-Mart in their pricing structures either...
Biesmeyer, Biesmeyer, Biesmeyer.
Everyone copies it for good reason. It is really the best out there.
The Delta Unifence has its supporters, but I'm not one of them.
I have used every single fence out there on everything from Unisaws to professional sliders.Only the huge iron/aluminum fences on the 10' (14" blade) sliding SCM tablesaws were as solid and maintenance free.
Save your pennies if you have to, but don't buy a piece of junk that you'll regret. You can search all you want, but will never hear of someone complaining about their Biesmeyer.
I have a Grizzly contractor saw with the upgrade shopfox fence. I can't recommend it. It took me the longest time to realize that even after I had the front and rear of the fence equal distances from the blade line, the MIDDLE was out of wack because the fence itself was bent. I put on a "sacrificial" type face but had to shim it various amounts to get it straight. After that, I could make rips without burning the wood but still have to check both ends every time.
Do those of you who own Biese fences have to measure both ends every time?
Edited 6/13/2005 12:35 am ET by Santa Fe
no. I never do. Maybe every once in a while I'll check my fence to mitergauge alignment (by eye) to make sure nothing's changed.
My blades don't burn or bind.
In fact, I get a little lackadaisical about using my dissapearing splitter sometimes.
Just to clarify, it's the Bies clone Shop Fox you have? (They make 3 different fences I think. The Bies clone is called the Classic). Must have been past its warranty when you diagnosed the problem?? Is it the actually steel that's bent? Wow.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 6/13/2005 1:19 pm ET by forestgirl
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled