In the August issue of FWW there was an article in tools and materials on the new Festool router. I have read articles and sen ads on their products before and they seemed nice but since I am in the market for a mid-range router, I thought I would stop by the local Festool dealer. I was blown away by their entire product line. It was a dream come true but I am ready to throw everything I have in the trash. I am crazy? Does anyone out therehave a good collection and/or experience with the festool products? What is the deal?
Thanking you in advance for comments
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Replies
hzwood,
I have several Festool machines, and I love all of them. They are beautifully designed and elegant to work with, and the dust collection is nothing short of miraculous. They are engineered to work ergonomically, miles ahead of anything you'll see in most tools.
I own these Festool machines, along with related accesories:
=> AT55 plunge saw with several guide rails
=> Rotex 6" dual-mode sander
=> 5" random-orbit sander
=> Detail sander
=> Duplex sander
=> OF 1400 router, with guide-rail adapter
=> Trion jigsaw, with guide-rail adapter
=> 12-volt and 15.6-volt cordless drills
=> CT22 dust extractor
=> MFT 1080 work table, with clamping elements
There is a lot to say about Festool, almost too much for a simple post in a forum. That's why I created a whole new forum to discuss them!
The forum is on Yahoo, and we have about 550 members at this point, discussing all manner of Festool topics. Here's the link if you want to join:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FestoolOwnersGroup/
I put together a wish list that mirrors your collection of Festool products. I cleaned up several of my tools yesterday and am going to sell them to get started with the transition. I agree about the almost too much to say about them comment. The way everything is integrated to work together, the accessory support, the storage system, the multifunction table, the quality, the feel and operation of each device is "over the top' and a dream come true.2 questions. How are the owners manuals/instructions? I am debatting the CT22 vs. the CT33 - any comments?Thanks for the info on the owners group - i am off to bookmark it now
hzwood,
You are wise to get a dust extractor right off with your first Festool tools. As you saw in my list, I have the CT22, which has worked great for all my Festool tools.The CT33 and CT22 are both great, but the CT22 is good enough for general hobby work. If you plan to do a lot of larger-volume projects, I would say get the CT33 with its increased dust-bag size.I am about to buy a second dust extractor, but I'm probably going to get the CT Mini. I want the CT22 for dedicated shop use, and then use the CT Mini for on-site work.
I am leaning towards the CT33. Do you have the reusable filter bag and if so any comments? It seems to me that paper bags are like printer cartridges, batteries, etc. - they just keep on taking
hzwood,
I considered the reusable bag, but have not yet bought one. I just buy bags five at a time. So far, so good. But I may consider the reusable at some point.
I own the 1400 router and the AT55 saw. I have been happy with both. On the plus side, they are well designed and engineered, rugged and very well made. Their price reflects this. Dust handling is also a plus. The manuals are not the best, but there are 3rd party "manuals" that fill the gaps.
I would not run out and replace everything with its Festool equivalent. There are other tools that are well made and less expensive: the Bosch jig saw is an example. Whether you need to spend the additional money for Festool depends on the tool and how (and how often) you will use it. I have a B&D electric screwdriver that I've owned for 20 years- it does the job and for the number of times that I use it, there's not much point in getting something better (if I was hanging drywall I would replace it in a heart beat).
Where Festool has an advantage is in quality and ergonomics. Given the decline in quality in many tool lines (e.g DeWalt and Delta) and the acquisition by B&D of a number of its competitors, I think this trend is likely to continue and perhaps accelerate. I don't know what PC will be like 18 months from now... My reason for buying Festool is that it has features that I really need and will use (the 1400 and its guide rail system), or that it will save me money in consumables (the AT55 for cutting large sheet goods).
Some on this forum have droned on and on about how "a good craftsman will get great results with lousy tools" and that only "collectors, not real WWrs" will buy high end brands like Festool. Funny, I know some really good WWrs, and they don't seem to have lousy tools: why would they want to? If I go to the trouble of buying high quality cherry veneer plywood, why would I chew it up with a B&D circular saw? At $85 per, how many sheets would I have to trash before it was worth an AT55?
Just my 2p,
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,
I agree with most of what you say. But I just want to comment on your statement about the Bosch and the Festool jigsaw. Let me be blunt. There is no comparison! The new Bosch is often touted as a great jigsaw, and it is probably better than 95% of other machines on the market. I owned one for a while, before I got the Trion.Let me tell you that the Festool jigsaw is as far ahead of the Bosch as the Bosch is ahead of any other jigsaw on the market.Try cutting 3" or 4" thick wood with the Bosch and watch as that blade bends and twists. Cut the same wood with the Festool and observe how the blade remains stiff and straight.There are other features that put the Festool way ahead of the Bosch. For example, with the guide-rail adapter, you could use the Festool jigsaw for perfectly straight cuts, abslutely clean, as good as a table saw -- no exaggeration.In general, there are no tools available for the American market that come close to a Festool tool of the same category. Period.
Edited 7/13/2005 1:51 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
In general, there are no tools available for the American market that come close to a Festool tool of the same category. Period.
My girlfriend objects to that statement,,,
EDIT:: Tools..
Edited 7/13/2005 3:16 pm ET by Will George
Will George said: "In general, there are no tools available for the American market that come close to a Festool tool of the same category. Period."
Up to that point I was going to stay out of the thread but I can't imagine Will has used the SmartGuide setup from Eurekazone. Many who have used both (including myself and a number of moderators in other forums) consider the SmartGuide vastly superior. One of them said after a side by side comparison "there was simply no contest".
Not to take anything away from Festool's fine products but there are alternatives that offer better quality, superior design and a much lower price.
PaulB
PaulB,
I checked out the EZ SmartGuide system a while back. While the guide rails are accurate, they don't provide the kind of cutting system you get with Festool, and in the end the SmartGuide is more expensive than Festool. Also, you need to use an inferior saw on the guide, unless you get a Festool or Mafell saw, in which case you might as well get the Festool guide rails.
Matthew...
We've butted heads elsewhere on this subject for the benefit of others reading this thread...
However, with all due respect that is nonsense. First, I defy you to show me how you can set up a SmartGuide comparable to a Festool and not save money. Secondly, to characterize every other saw (with the exception of 2) as inferior is just silly. While each has pros and cons, I will defy anyone to look at the cut I get from my SmartGuide with a PC and a standard blade and not find it as good (and likely better) than the same cut with the Festool saw. Thirdly, while you have looked at the SmartGuide, I (and others) have used or owned both and come to a conclusion utterly opposed to yours. Festool's a great product undoubtedly but blind worship of everything they make without regard to newer, more advanced designs does no one a service...
Regards,
PaulB
(edited for #%$@ typos)
Edited 7/14/2005 2:04 pm ET by PaulB
PaulB,
No reason to butt heads here. I did woodworking for years before I used Festool products, and I covered the full range -- DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter+Cable, Ridgid, and on and on. I only feel the way I do about Festool because, once I started using their tools it became obvious that the engineering and development is superior to anything else I have ever used. I other words, I came around to seeing things this way through experience and comparison. It's not blind worship by any means. I have often written about quality tools made by other manufacturers. But my standards are pretty high, and far too much of what is produced lately for woodworkers is just plain inferior. Then there are companies, such as Incra, that earn my strong support. Do a search on my posts in this forum, and you will see that I never hesitate to strongly support any company that makes a good product. I will also strongly support a particular tool made by a company. For example, I recently wrote a glowing report here on Knots about the Ridgid benchtop table saw. Bottom line: I believe that consumers need to hear honest reactions users have about products, positive and negative. I have always been vocal about giving support to companies that deserve it, and Festool REALLY deserves it!Now, as far as price comparisons, it's a difficult argument. The Festool machines form a system that works together. So you can't just compare a Festool guide rail to an EZ Smart guide rail (although even here they are essentially the same price). Also, although a Festool saw or sander has a higher entry price, Festool consumables (saw blades and sanding disks) are much less expensive than competitors. Festool makes saw blades for about $40 that are as good as Forrest blades costing three times that amount. And I have never seen sanding disks that last as long as Festool's do. Finally, factor in the safety and health benefits of Festool machines, which is difficult to put a price on. Cut some MDF with your EZ Smart Guide and a Porter+Cable saw, then do the same thing with a Festool saw and a dust extractor. I challenge anybody to do this experiment and come away favoring the Porter+Cable saw. I don't have it out for Porter+Cable, in fact I own one of their routers and love it (I've written several extremely positive posts about the Porter+Cable 3.25HP router, including one on Amazon).I stand by my assertion that the cuts from Festool and Mafell saws are far and away superior to any other saw you will buy in the US. For me, there just is no argument here. I'll remind you that I have used circular saws from a full range of other companies before I discovered Festool.Look, some people will come away thinking I'm a nut, others will see that I make good points, and still others may not be able to decide. I'm just putting my side out there as clearly as I can so people can use it to make a decision.I have no vested interest in Festool as a company. I just believe very strongly that good manufacturing deserves our praise and our support.
Edited 7/14/2005 2:40 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
This is the first time I posted on this site and it has had some high and low points. Matthew I thank you for your thoughtful comments based on your experience. From what I have sene you so far I think you are right. Jazzdog - thanks for your comments. I agree that as you move up in bit diameter you make a transition to a fixed base router and/or shaper.It seems that some misunderstood the point under dicussion. I said that I was interested in expanding my router "capabilities" from a held held P-C 690 to a higher power router in a fixed base with table top depth, or is it height, adjustment. As an example, I used pretty common products that are reasonby priced and readily availble. I did not say whether I was going to buy or make my own table. In case you are interested, I would have probably bought it but don't think I need it now as I am certain the Festool Q0 1400 EQ will give me the capability to do what I like to do - which is not making an inferior router table to prove a point I can do what others have dedicted their lifes to making mine better. I like the companies and people that make tools and better products and most of all I like to support them. I'll miss you Jerico and Metod but if you ever want a nice router table give me a call and I'll give you a quote.Let me explain some tthings about how this Festool thing got started with me. A few weeks ago, I attended a customer appreciation day at my local power tool supply store that serves professional tradespeople and all the big tool names were there with their tents. Since I have mostly Delta, DeWalt, and Porter-Cable equipment, I stopped the Dewalt and was told that Black-Decker had just bought Delta and Porter-Cable. Although I have no reason to complain about my Delta stuff, I have recently been disappointed in both DeWalt and Porter- Cable. Primary reasons being useful owners manuals prining on tissue paper, do not operate as well as I think they should, a hodge podge of carrying cases - steel, plastic, none, all different poor parts and accessory support, and significantly and importantly the offshoring of jobs from our country is making this worse. So in the spirit of constructive criticismI shared my opinions with the factory guy who responded get used to it. I don't have to!Let me make an example. Festool model QF 1010 EQ router vs P-C 690. The Festool has soft start, variable speed, operates as a fixed or plunge router, a dust port extractor,1 wrench bit changeand has an ergonomic handle and a list and sell price of $325. I have a P-C 690 set with similar capability but a straight on off switch. Tool Crib pricing - fixed router with plunge base $200, d-handle router $155, dust collector accessory(which sucks - literally) $45, and a crappy case and owners manual for a total of $400. go figureThanks again for all the helpful comments. I gotta run down the Festool dealer and get started. wheeee !!!!!!
I have no vested interest in Festool as a company. I just believe very strongly that good manufacturing deserves our praise and our support
Matthew.
I agree with your statement. I'm in the market for a tool guide system. I own a PC Mag 325 and a Dewalt 620? router. But I'm willing to invest on all new Festool toys and the Festool guide rails with the MPF table and all the associated microtoys.
My questions are:
1. how good is the connection on the Festool guide rails? Do they stay 100% straight or I need to buy the 110" guide rail for my 8 panel cuts? Can I get 3 sections and rip long pieces,over 10 feet? Or do I need seperate 4 feet , 8 feet and 12 feet rails? for better results.
2. Can I rip narrow stock and moldings less than 4-5 inches? What is the narrowest piece of wood that I can rip with the festool system.
Thanks for all your help. I have a few more questions but let's start with these first.
Chris.
Well, originally Matt you claimed the SmartGuide would cost more, now you say the comparison is difficult. I'd maintain it's quite simple and that the SmartGuide is less expensive. You say that they can't be compared and I agree... the SmartGuide is just flat out better. Bidirectional cutting, zero splintering on either side of the cut, superior rigidity and connectors, easily replaced edge guides, an open system that allows any brand of saw, router, even planer to be used. But I think that the point is made. Festool consumables are "much less expensive than competitor's" (your words)? C'mon Matt, we both know Festool users often complain about the cost of blades for example. But I think the point has been made.
As to cut quality I'd suggest those interested in a truly amazing sight go to http://www.eurekazone.com and look at the photos posted there where repeated cuts are made that are consistently so thin they can be read through. As have you, I have also used a wide range of saws Matt, (I currently own 6) and the premise that Festool has some secret lock on superior cut quality just ain't so. The superior rigidity of the SmartGuide has been amply demonstrated as well. There are many, many other advantages of the SmartGuide over the Festool but I hesitate to even further hijack the thread.
I will grant you that Festool has a great dust collection system btw. I won't muddy the waters by mentioning that I have a ten dollar mod to my PC saw that also gives me truly remarkable DC.
Anyway, they do make some very fine products (and are a very nice shade of green).
PaulB
PaulB,
There's no reason to go over this again and again. Really, there is lots of room for people to have all kinds of opinons about every single tool on the market.The EZ Smart Guide is a nice system. I never said it isn't. But in my tests, I did not find it better than Festool. If I thought it was better, I would buy it and use it instead of Festool.Again, price is difficult to pin down. The real question is, what kind of working system do you prefer? I like the Festool system because it has a whole interconnected set of tooling, and the cuts I get from my Festool saw are perfectly smooth. The Festool saw has a plunge action whhich allows me to cut from point to point neatly. It also has a true riving knife which prevents kickback, an elegant plunge-depth setting, and it works with the cutting table which has replaced my sliding compound miter saw in about 90% of cutting situations. Until you use these things, you don't understand how much smoother and better they are. Can you name one American saw that has all this? And I'm not even touching on the sanders, planer, routers, and cordless drills.Where have you heard of people complaining about the pricing of Festool's consumables? I have not seen this.Here's a quick rundown of the Festool saw blades and their prices. These are all premium-quality blades, made for the AT55 saw:
12 teeth, ATB (combination) - $26
14 teeth, ATB (ripping) - $30
28 teeth, ATB (universal) - $34
48 teeth, ATB (fine-tooth) - $45
48 teeth, TC (for cutting laminates) - $51
56 teeth, TC (for cutting metal) - $59Please tell me which manufacturers are making premium blades for anywhere near these prices!And here is a rundown of Festool jigsaw blades, again all premium quality:
5 pack of 3" blades - $7
25 pack of 3" blades - $32
5 pack of 4" blades - $12
5 pack of 3" fine-cut blades - $8
5 pack of 4" fast-cutting blades - $17
20 pack of 4" fast-cutting blades - $66
5 pack of 5.7" fast-cutting blades - $22
5 pack of 6" corrugated blades - $14
There are others, but you get the idea.These prices are about the same as Bosch blades, which I will hesitantly use for comparison.And here's a sampling of prices for Festool's 6" random-orbit sandpaper disks, which last at least twice as long as any other I have used (and I'm being kind here):
Box of 100 40-grit disks - $22
Box of 50 60-grit disks - $19
Box of 50 80-grit disks - $17
Box of 100 100-grit disks - $32
Box of 100 120-grit disks - $32
Box of 100 150-grit disks - $31
Box of 100 180-grit disks - $31
Box of 100 220-grit disks - $31Anyway, this kind of argument can go on and on. I feel very strongly that the engineering and manufacturing of Festool products reveals a company that has developed their whole process of design and implementation in truly thoughtful ways.But again, I emphasize that this is just me supporting a company I really like. It's no different than the way I support Incra or specific tools made by Ridgid or Porter+Cable, which I have done.Again, I believe in strongly supporting a job well done. That's it.
Edited 7/14/2005 10:31 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
Matt,
In a nutshell, I agree that going over the same territory ad nauseum is silly. The problem I have is when the same ole' inaccuracies are dredged up over and over.
You started out saying the Festool is cheaper, I challenged that. Nnow you say it's hard to compare. Which is it? You have said the Festool produces a superior cut. I say bushwa... go to the Eurekazone site ( http://www.eurekazone.com ) and replicate the cuts that are shown where you can read through them, over and over, and then tell me about cut quality.
On your very own Festool user's site there are repeated complaints from owners about consumable pricing.
While I have said that I think the Festool saw is a fine product, and does have, for instance, great DC some of the features used by their fans as proof of "superior" engineering are veryyyyyyyy dubious. Plunge action, for instance, is not always a good thing. In my experience using their saw, having to always use it in plunge mode is tiring and tedious not to mention limiting my reach at times. Also the plunge action as I recall (stretching my memory here) requires the use of a (I believe they call it) accessory brake in some cases. (It's been a while since I used it so I'm willing to admit my recollection may be inaccurate.)
It becomes a simple test really. Does Festool offer:
Bidirectional use of their guide rails?
Do they offer antichip protection on both sides of the cut, even OFF the guide rail?*
Do their rail sections join as securely as the SmartGuide?
Do they have as versatile a clamping system, allowing cutting of incredibly thin workpieces?
Can I use any saw or router I presently own?
The answer to all of these is no.
Lastly, I would remind you of the thread in another forum we both participated in where the moderators of the forum, unquestionably unbiased and highly regarded woodworkers both came out in favor of the SmartGuide system one going so far as to say "there was simply no comparison". Yes Festool makes a fine product but until they get their designs updated and offer the functionality of the SmartGuide, they are simply yesterday's news.
PaulB
* I'm aware that the new EU version does have antichip on both sides of the cut. So apparently this is a tacit admission that previously they did not in fact have chipfree cutting on the "waste" side.
Edited 7/15/2005 7:55 am ET by PaulB
PaulB,
I don't remember when you and I discussed this on another forum. Which forum was that?To sum up, I do think that Festool comes out less expensive in the end. But my point is that to make the argument completely would be very involved, and it would rely on how you interpret what something is worth (like longevity and materials, etc.). That's why it's dificult, but I stand by my statement that in the end going the Festool route is cheaper.I will admit that cutting thin strips using a Festool guide rail is not easy to do. You can do it, but it is the weakness of the Festool system. However, I think that EZ SmartGuide's claim that their system makes this easy is inaccurate. Have you tried lining up those thin pieces with the stop on the EZ SmartGuide? Yes, the piece you cut is thin, but certainly not straight enough. The fact is, cutting thin strips is something that all guide systems are working on improving.If you look up and down the Festool line, you cannot help but come away with a general impression of superior engineering. EZ SmartGuide is claiming to have a better guide rail. Well, it's obviously debatable. Even if you give EZ SmartGuide the edge with their guide rail (which I don't), you can't match that up against an entire lineup of tools.Festool has released a new version of their saw that has the anti-chip feature on both sides, as well as some other features. It's not available in the USA yet. I wouldn't say that this as any "admission" on Festool's part. The company, having excellent design and engineering, is always making improvements on an already superior product.
Edited 7/15/2005 8:55 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matt,
We both participated in an essentially identical thread on SMC. Anywaysssssss...
Tell ya what, you brought up the issue of cost. Add up the items, post it here and let's see. I've done it in previous debates and know the outcome. I agree that quality of construction is an important criteria, another area where SmartGuide trumps the Festool guide. Compare the cross sections and it's obvious which design is more robust.
As far as a "line up" goes, I personally (and many others I'm sure) prefer to choose my own line up rather than be restricted to buying any one brand regardless of quality just so I can use my guide rail.
In fact yes, I cut thin strips with the SmartGuide on a regular basis. Shall I post some pics of my own? Your claim that it is difficult, or not straight is just utterly erroneous.
You keep using the red herring of "superior engineering". How is it superior? The SmartGuide does more, is easier in many cases, safer in many cases, more robust in construction, and less expensive.
BTW, I'm curious as to whether you care to answer the earlier questioner about Festool specifics?
Regards,
PaulB
PaulB,
I really don't recall debating this with you on SMC. I'm not even sure I know what SMC is. I'm not being coy here. If I'm incorrect, honestly, please tell me.
Edited 7/15/2005 11:09 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew.
Most woodworkers want to be able to complete a project without spending an arm and leg or cutting off any fingers.
We're concerned about the 'seams' on the project, not necessarily the tools.
You like expensive tools, that's nice. After you die, they'll be sold at a yard sale with the rest of the stuff in the garage. They're just tools. Andy Rooney said, " some tools you buy just because they're nice to look at."
You're focused in on something you're passionate about.
You're able to pay for your passions.
The rest of us, we have to use our imagination instead of our wallet. We need to do the project with the tools on hand.
We're looking for something to make us better with what we have. We may not have your 'efficient' system, but we can be real 'effective' with our present set-up.
Many woodworkers rely on homemade jigs or store-bought to accomplish these tasks.
You can say you like the festool and nothing else, that's passionate opinion. But do not defame the merits of other tools or the efforts of others to invent new tools just to justify your affection.
This country still has some brilliant inventive minds. One of the obstacles they face in bringing a tool to market is the attitude that says 'there can be nothing better'.
The attitude Matthew, the 'superior' attitude.
Chris.
Edited 7/15/2005 5:41 pm ET by chriswoo1
chriswoo1,
I don't think it's "superior" to honestly review tools I've used and state which one I find is better. If that were "superior" then about 75% of all the members of this forum are "superior."Furthermore, 100% of woodworking magazines are "superior" because they run tool reviews where the reviewer says which tool he likes better.The irony here is that I have been very clear that everything I say is my opinion, and I have also said very clearly that I like several tools, from many companies, often American ones.Again, I support those companies that do a good job. I don't care where the tools are made, as long as they are made well.Now you stumbled into territory I'm sure you didn't mean to enter when you wrote this about American tool manufacturers:
"One of the obstacles they face in bringing a tool to market is the attitude that says 'there can be nothing better'."Are you saying that the people at DeWalt and Porter+Cable, and others, would have far better products if people like me weren't commenting about them? Are you saying that because of "superior" people like me, those American companies just decide to produce inferior products? If that's true, why is it that a German company, instead of giving up, tries harder? Are you saying that American companies just give up?I don't personally believe this, and as I said, I like a lot of tools that have been made by Porter+Cable, Incra, and others.But you seem to believe that American companies cut and run in the face of a challenge. Very interesting.
Regardless of my opinion on tools, I have to admire your persistence. Honestly, I tire of stating my position, whether I feel it is right or wrong. I'm glad that you have the stamina to reply.
Hi everyone!
I own many of the Festool tools and all of Eurekazone's tools. Festool makes great tools, has excellent phone support, and ships quickly. However, Eurekazone's products are better, safer, more accurate, cheaper and better supported by the inventor himself - Dino.
For example, the EZ Smart is more solidly built - it is heaver, has three solid connectors (to two of Festool's) and cuts on both sides - advantages over Festool.
The EZ Smart locks your saw onto its guide rail - making cuts safer and easier. A monkey can safely make perfect, chip free cuts with the EZ Smart. Not so easy (or safe) with the Festool system. My expensive Festool rails have cuts in them from the saw jumping the rail on several occasions - unsafe - and a real bummer considering the investment.
The Festool rail requires an expensive Festool saw, Festool blades and a vacuum to work as intended - a big investment - and not always a practical one for many applications.
The EZ Smart systems works with ANY saw - from my 7-1/4" Milwaukee to my 16-5/16" Makita. The 7-1/4" saw, with a $15 blade is cheap compared to the Festool system and safely cuts perfect chip free cuts from either side of the rail. Whenever I put the Festool next to the EZ Smart in front on any contractor I meet, they choose the EZ Smart every time. Why? I suspect that woodworkers prefer to invest under $200 in a system that will work with whatever saw and blade they already have and are used to. If the EZ Smart is damaged, lost or stolen you are out much less money compared to almost any practical alternative.
I happen to buy almost every cool tool that comes down the pike. I even bought the Bradbury Industries table. In terms of quality and value, nothing I have used compares to Eurekazone's lineup.
The EZ Smart makes a contractor table saw obsolete. Cheaper, easier, safer, more accurate. With my 16-5/16" Makita, I can straight line any rough cut lumber - up to 6" thick and 16" long in under a minute - a job that once took two people much longer with a Powermatic 12" jointer. Nothing Festool offers will allow such a cut so easily and practically. More importantly is the portability of the EZ Smart. Try moving a 12" Powermatic to your next job site.
I get the impression that Festool gives the American market the bottom of it's product line. I think the Europeans get a deeper product offering and most likely pay significantly less. Unless you live in New Jersey, you don't pay sales tax, and you definitely don't pay for shipping from Germany.
Having said this, Festool's jigsaws, sanders, saws, vacuums,and routers work extremely well. The 3 year warranty should be a model for other tool makers to follow. Festool's 30 day money back guarantee is admirable. I believe Eurekazone also has a similar money back guarantee.
While value is more important to me than price - I still am amazed at how Festool can charge $175 plus tax for a long life vacuum cleaner bag for the CT33. I would be embarrassed to admit to any other sane human being that I was the one who paid approximately $190 for one vacuum cleaner bag.
Regarding phone support, I found Festool's support to be outstanding - easy to understand, plain speaking, knowledgeable staff during their business hours - I cannot say the same for all their dealers. I almost never got a human voice when I called Bradbury Industries, and I often waited more than 24 hours for my call to be returned. When I called Eurekazone, I always spoke with Dino - the inventor. Since English is not his native language, it is sometimes difficult to understand him. Having said this, I have not spoken to anyone more enthused about his inventions, more knowledgeable about carpentry or more willing to help you work safely and intelligently. He has been available day and night, and even on weekends to answer my painfully persistent questions - I don't know what his time is worth, but I bet he lost money on me. It seems that others have had similar experiences, considering his perfect eBay rating and the buzz on the Internet.
Having used the Festool, EZ Smart, and other systems, and having an appreciation for safe tools with value, I would recommend the EZ Smart to anyone without qualification. When you combine the EZ Smart with Eurekazone's Dead Wood Concept and you have an extremely safe, accurate, clean cutting system that is well worth its very modest investment.
I hope my comments have been useful.
Bill Porta
--- And to PaulB, and any others who have used the EZ system:I have a few questions about the EZ system, but first an explanation.For years, I have used homemade shooting boards to break down sheets of plywood -- one for 8' cuts, another @ 50" for cross cuts. I have a wonderful old, right blade PC (actually a Rockwell) circ saw I dedicate to these cuts, equipped with a Forrest blade. The cut quality is decent, but I nonetheless always overcut, and then cut to size on my TS (a PM 66). Also, shooting boards are useless for ripping anything less than about 12", which has never been a problem, since I have ready access to a TS.But over the past year or so, I am doing more and more jobsite work; I have a Bosch 4000, but even though it is "portable", it is still a PIA to transport and set up -- and it takes up a lot of space in the van. So here are my specific questions:1) Is the EZ guide a reasonable substitute for a TS for job site work? Surely, the saw and the guide system don't take up much room (to transport), but you still need some sort of table (either Dino's or one you make up yourself) for using the system. So in the end, would one end up with having to devote more van space to the EZ system (assuming you would have to carry a pair of horses, that I otherwise would not need)? With the Bosch, I only have to worry about the saw itself and the fold-up stand. 2) If I take the CS mentioned above, is there any reason to think the EZ system would produce a better quality cut than I am getting with the shooting boards? With the Forrest blade, splintering is not a problem, but the cut itself is rougher than I get with my TS.3) Could the EZ be used, say to rip spacer boards for cabinet installs -- for instance rip a 3" X 36" spacer down to 2"?4) Next week we're building a fancy railing for a deck -- which involves wrapping the 4 X 4 posts with 1X cedar, cut at a mitre. Would this be as simple with the EZ as it would be with my Bosch TS?5) The 2X4 railing itself needs to be cut at about 5 degrees from both sides of the top -- to shed water. I am guessing there is not a way to make this kind of cut with an EZ, right?****************************************************************I have followed all the threads (especially on Breaktime) about the EZ system, and love him as I do, Dino's explanations don't always have great clarity. Hence, I am hoping some of you who have actually used the system can answer some of these questions. Thanks.********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
Edited 7/16/2005 2:34 am ET by nikkiwood
Nikki, I use both the Festool system (in the shop) & the EZ system (in the field), so I'll offer my thoughts.1) IMHO, neither system is a good substitute for a good table saw when repetitive cuts are needed. The reason is there's too much chance for error in laying out the cuts, & it's a whole lot easier to set a rip fence once, than it is to fuss around marking each end of the pc. you want to rip, setting up the guide, & finally ripping. However, if you need to make tapered cuts, I think the rails are easier to use, & possibly more accurate than a t.s.2) I don't know that anything will be gained, since you already use a good saw with a good blade. 3) Yes. I did just that yesterday, with the EZ, because our t.s. wasn't on site, yet. This a.m., I'm going to the shop to get our Bosch t.s., & bring it to the job so I don't have to do it again. Maybe because I'm so used to using a t.s. I find it a chore to rip narrow pcs. with the EZ - just my opinion.4) IMHO, no. (See above).5) Not that I'm aware of. (We usually do this type of operation with a thickness planer, & a tapered sled that sits on the bed, & pitches the stock into the blades at the correct bevel.)Here's my view on either system: No matter which one you use, IMHO, it's a poor substitute for a good t.s. when doing anything other than working with sheet goods, or large stock. As I said, we use both systems, (Festool & EZ), so I'm not knocking either one. They both have their strengths, & I wouldn't want to be without them, just as I wouldn't want to be without my table saws. There are limitations to any tool. It's figuring out the strengths of each one, & using it where it shines the most, that makes our job easier. (Just my 2 cents.) Greg
gregb,
I agree with your statements. As I have said here, I don't knock any company just because I feel like it. I'm sure there are things that EZ does that Festool doesn't, and vice versa.I'm also sue that in the years ahead, both companies will continue to make significant improvements.We'll see where things go.
Matthew, you make a good point. These rail systems are fairly new here in the U.S. It'll be interesting to see what improvements are made to them in the future.FWIW, I like the Festool system better than the EZ, in part because I use the Festool saw with it, but also because there's no fussing with clamps, as there is with the EZ. I'll be interested to see the "EZ repeater", or whatever EZ is coming out with. As of right now, my comments about cut indexing stand, until there's a solution that's made available to us. Greg
Not to keep splitting hairs Greg, but the SmartGuide nows offers clampless use as well...and when you do need to use clamps (as you must at times with any system), the SmartGuide clamps are far superior to, and more versatile than, the simple C clamp type arrangement used by Festool.
Nikki,
I have found the SmartGuide a great alternative to a TS in the shop or the field. I rarely use my Unisaw for instance. The clamping system makes for a suprisingly good workstand under many circumstances, btw. I do carry two lightweight horses already so it's not much of an issue in general. As to cut quality, it will blow your mind. If there's interest I can post some examples, or just look at the website. Their examples are utterly accurate. Greg's comments about repetitive cuts isn't quite correct as they will be releasing the "EZ Repeater" or some such name that makes repetitive cutting a snap it seems (not yet available so I have only their pics and description to go by).
The system is perfect for cabinet fillers and I believe they show examples of just such an operation also. As far as your railing, the mitering is a piece of cake although you could probably make an argument of pros and cons for each approach depending on your work style. The top cuts sound problematic, but I know Dino posted examples of a planer mounted on a rail, that sounds like a good alternative.
Hope this is helpful, feel free to let me know if I can answer anything else...
PaulB
Edited 7/16/2005 9:23 am ET by PaulB
Edited 7/16/2005 9:26 am ET by PaulB
Bill.
How is the stability and ease of cut with the 15" Makita?
Your comments have been very useful.
Chris.
Smooth as butter. Well worth the investment.
It looks like Festool is (finally) loosening up their market/distribution policy. I just spoke today to the boss at a big tool outlet in my area (7 Corners), and he told me Festool has finally agreed to let them stock and sell the Festool line of products. That means you will be able to pony up the $$, and walk out of the store with the tool. The same arrangement will undoubtedly be made with selected other outlets across the country -- but how many, he didn't know. These people (7 Corners) discount their tools, and I didn't think to ask him if they would be able to do that with the Festool stuff.********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
But you seem to believe that American companies cut and run in the face of a challenge. Very interesting. 24570.52
Matthew. I believe this is a challenge offered by an American Company.
And my two questions?
Chris.
Paul, you previously wrote:
"Can I use any saw or router I presently own?
The answer to all of these is no."
While your answer is correct for the Festool, it is also correct for the SmartGuide. The SmartGuide does not work with a left blade saw. I happen to have a PC Framesaw which is left hand and so it would not work with any saw I presently own.
Do you know if the SmartGuide will work with the Festool saw? Since I only have the 50" Festool guide when I have need for the 100" guide, is the SmartGuide a viable alternative for me? Since the prices for the two guides are about the same I am open to considering it for use with my Festool.
Steve
Actually Steve, you can now (unless I'm very much mistaken) now use the SmartGuide with left bladed saws. However, I think the system does work more comfortably with right, and the price of a good rb circ saw being so low now I had no problem making the switch (I also own a Skil 77 Mag). And yes it does work with the Festool saw.
There's no reason to go over this again and again. Really, there is lots of room for people to have all kinds of opinons about every single tool on the market...
I just loved that one... BUT.. If not for it there would be no need for this Forum...
I for one like to hear it all! Good and bad..
Opinions make life what it is.. Good AND Bad!...
Will,
I think people know where I stand!I just want to make sure people know that I am not demeaning the EZ Smart Guide. It looks like a nice guide rail setup. But my bottom line is, it does not provide the seamless system approach you get with Festool. I'll say again that I strongly support, and report on, any tool I have used that is impressive to me.The reason I am shying away from a direct price comparison between Festool and EZ is because it is virtually impossible to agree what would be comparable systems. Take the Festool work table. Yes, you could construct one of them yourself, but there is all kinds of debate about whether what you build is truly equivalent to Festool, which results in a range of prices. I will say with confidence that if you built ANY kind of table that came close to Festool's usability and accuracy, it would cost you near what Festool charges.I can quote consumable prices, because that's fairly straightforward. Although even here it gets coudy, as the Festool sanding disks last so much longer.
Edited 7/15/2005 11:54 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matt and Paul - you both make some interesting and valid points. I have been biting my tongue on some of your posts as they have degraded into an argument of which is "better". Simply put, I don't know and I really don't care which is "better" since the term is a subjective judgement and biased by the desires and preferences of the individual user. It is clear that both of you are passionate about your systems and it is not likely that either will change nor would I expect you too. If you are completely satisfied with the performance of your systems I think that is great.
When I use any tool be it handtool, handheld power tool or machinery, I expect it to do what I need it to do accurately, safely, and reliably. Furthermore, I don't want my craftsmanship to be limited by the capabilities of my tools. I happened to choose the Festool saw guide after a comparison with several other systems although I don't believe the EZ was one of them. I am satisfied with the performance of the Festool and it is likely that I would be satisfied with the EZ guide although would be less than satisfied with my old saw. That said, I will not trade my Festool for another system as long as it fulfills my expectations. I will also not hawk the Festool or any other system on others as being the best since I know that I have not used every system available. I also know that my skills, standards, and expectations may also be different from others. I doubt if anyone posting here has used all of these systems or has the same expectations. For example, I haven't seen anyone posting on their experiences with the Mafell system. It is more costly than both the Festool and EZ systems combined. After all, isn't it possible that for some users, the Mafell could be the "better" system?
http://www.eurekazone.com/gallery.html
I have no idea why we try to compare the Ez with the... UN-EZ.
According to the Ez Smart makers, the Ez is faster, safer and better than a sliding tablesaw and all other systems combined.
And they offer a challenge to anyone with any and all tools.
http://www.eurekazone.com/challenge.html
After all, THEY like to find a better way.
Paul.
My questions are:
1. how good is the connection on the eurekazone guide rails? Do they stay 100% straight or I need to buy the 110" guide rail for my 8 panel cuts? Can I get 3 sections and rip long pieces,over 10 feet? Or do I need seperate 4 feet , 8 feet and 12 feet rails? for better results.
2. Can I rip narrow stock and moldings less than 4-5 inches? What is the narrowest piece of wood that I can rip with the eureka system.
Thanks for all your help. I have a few more questions but let's start with these first.
Chris.
Hi Chris,
The Eurekazone rails are deadddddddd straight and stay that way when joined. When joined they are held fast by dovetailed connectors top and bottom. No flex, no "bump" where the connector is. Period...Festool recently upgraded their connectors to a system more like the SmartGuide but even so the SmartGuide has the edge ;)
While I'm not sure I can say the absolute minimum width that can be handled I have ripped dead striaght pieces from workpieces as narrow as 2" I'd say off the top of my head.
Hope this helps...
PaulB
Will,
I don't think MS has seen your girl friend. He's in love with the fraulein with the green and black hair. j
jericho,
When I find a great tool, like a great relationship, I'm loyal to it! And by the way, my wife is Russian. Don't know of many great tools from that country.
....don't know of many great tools from that country." (Russia)
Here is one-Tos- maker of machinist lathes and chucks etc.
Just an aside for the lads.
I've not used the Triton- and doubt that I will, since I don't have much call for a hand jig saw. If you use a jig saw and like the Festool- fine by me. I doubt that I'd buy one myself, but I don't have much call for a lathe either, and some people turn almost exclusively.
My only point is that you should assess your needs and buy according to them and to your budget. I think I have saved enough consumables over the past 18 months to have easily covered the price difference between Festool and the runner up.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Some on this forum have droned on and on about how "a good craftsman will get great results with lousy tools" and that only "collectors, not real WWrs" will buy high end brands like Festool. Funny, I know some really good WWrs, and they don't seem to have lousy tools: why would they want to? If I go to the trouble of buying high quality cherry veneer plywood, why would I chew it up with a B&D circular saw? At $85 per, how many sheets would I have to trash before it was worth an AT55?
I wouldn't say "lousy" tools. I would say adequate tools. I work with 2 trim carpenters that are extremely talented. They've built entire kitchens on site with nothing more than a corded 3/8 black&decker drill, a makita circular saw, a POS craftsman belt sander, $59 craftsman router, and $10 cabinet scraper. I'd put their site built cabinets and built ins, up against 90% of the peoples work that post here.
The tool is only as good(or bad) as the person who is operating it. I think most of the time people use equipment as an excuse. It can't possibly be their fault that the project didn't turn out.
That all said, Festool makes some fantastic tools. Their dust collection is second to none. If you can afford them, and truly need them. More power to you.
I'm not suggesting anything about you personally, just commenting in general.
dustinf,
The thing is, it's not just a question of the woodworker's ability.I COULD build nice furniture with Bosch and DeWalt and Makita tools. But the reason I choose Festool tools is because everything that company makes is better at collecting dust (health and safety), causes less vibration (for example, when sanding), lasts longer (superior engineering), and opens up all kinds of unique shaping and cutting possibilities (see their MFT and guide rail systems).I have always thought of Festool tools as being a kind of cross between hand-tool elegance and power-tool strength.In other words, the accuracy of the Festool tools is only one of many, many reasons to get them.I've heard the argument before that good woodworkers don't need great tools. This is just silly. Great woodworkers I know appreciate a well-engineered tool, and if they can, they obtain it and use it to its full extent, letting their creativity grow with the capabilities of the tool. Go to the book store and look at shots of the famous woodworkers' shops. Look what they are using. It's expensive, top-of-the-line tools. Maybe not every last one of them, but certainly most.Anyway, where do you draw the line? Would you give up your table saw and band saw and router and do everything without electricity?
Edited 7/13/2005 8:50 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
I tend to agree. The argument can get a bit hyperbolic, e.g.:
"...my old Dad was a great woodworker. He made a Duncan Phyfe dining room set with nothing but a back saw, a chisel and a smoothing plane."
"Smoothing plane? Luxury. My Dad built an entire Hepplewhite living room set with a cast iron firmer chisel and a framing saw."
"You're both all wet. My Dad built an entire Louis XIV console bedroom set with only flint tools...and he grew his own walnut trees"
"Tools? Your Dad had tools?...mine carved an entire Biedermeier secretary with inset clocks with his teeth..."
"Your Dad had teeth...?"
****************************
In all seriousness, a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, but he does know when a tool is not good enough, and doesn't waste his time doing something the hard way. If a guy is earning his living by his craft, then the right tool will save him time and aggravation, and money as well.
As for me, my favorite tool is my $10 cabinet scraper (well I kind of like the burnishing rod as well...)Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
hz, are you looking for a mid-price range or mid-size router? Are you going to free-hand it, or try to table it? the festool router is good choice, just be prepared to pop for the extras that go with the system. which dealer did you try? j
I am looking for a mid-range router in terms of power - 2 to 3 hp. I appreciate value so am not price conscience - it has to work properly and well, last a long time. I have a few PC 690's and was looking at router tables and a larger router with lift to enhance my capability ( their are several but for example: a Rockler table, Mast-R-Lift, and and a P-C 7518). When I checked out the Festool QF 1400 EQ and MFS multi-routing templete it got me to thinking seriously about the basic concept. It seems more intuitive to me to fix the workpiece and move the tool in a guide with the ability to see what is going on as opposed fixing the tool and placing the workpiece face down on a tool and not be able to see the wood being machined. When you throw in the MFTmulti-function table and the dust collection I am totally rethinking router capability but would like to hear from someone who has worked with both methods.
I can think of several applications in which it wouldn't matter a great deal whether the router was mounted in a table or hand-held. But, I woudn't feel comfortable spinning some large bits in a hand-held router, like panel raisers or rosette cutters, even if used with a guide track, and cope & stick bits seem problematic in a hand-held router. As good as the Festool system is, I think there's still a need for a router table in my shop.-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask youself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
jazzdog,
Agreed. I would not run large-diameter bits in a hand-held router.I use the Festool router for hand-held work, and I have a router table set up for table work. When Festool makes something, it is better than anything else. But there are some things they just don't make, or are not yet available in the USA. A router table is one of them.In my shop, I have a router table setup that includes a Precision Router Lift by Woodpecker, a Porter+Cable 3.25HP router, and an Incra LS positioner. I've written about this system before, but I am happy to repeat here that it is fantastic, a great partner to the Festool tools.
jazzdogg -- Love your sig. That's the first time I've seen that quote. It's perfect!Jim
I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me. -- Winnie-the-Pooh
Jim,
I'm glad you like it. I like to save inspirational quotes, and that's one of my favorites.
"A lif so short, The craft so long to master." Geof Chaucer
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask youself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Jazzdog,
Have you seen the film 'a knights tale'?
Arguably a bit of celebration of chaucer as a minor character: "...I will evicerate you in fiction.."
Dave
Patto,
Can't say that I've seen that movie, but thanks for the suggestion.
Sawdust in your shoes,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask youself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
hzwood,
Festool is simply outstanding. I purchased the OF1400 router when it was on introductory special and was so impressed by it (especially dust collection, ergonomics, and quietness) that I ordered another. I also have the Rotex 150 sander, AT55 plunge saw, 12v cordless CDD drill with all the chucks, and the CT-22 dust extractor. They are all outstanding performers and put to shame every other hand held power tool that I have including (Bosch, Porter Cable, Sioux, Dewalt, Hitachi, Makita, and Sears). Whenever I have had the need to replace a tool or purchase a new one, if Festool makes one, I will buy it with no hesitation. There may be some who will say that they aren't worth the extra money and that it is just hype by collectors who have more money than they know what to do with. In my case, that couldn't be further from the truth. They are worth every penny - even in my home hobby shop.
Steve
Metod,
Hey, I think this is a good topic, and we can never hear from enough people! Glad to hear what you have to say.
Metod,
You hit the mark when you mentioned the toys ( cameras, golf clubs, fishing stuff, etc.) The toy side of the brain will jump on the latest and greatest technology. Our tool side wants to stay with the tradition ( it's what I've always used, where is it made, what's my best price?).
What Lie-Nielsen, Festool, Fein, and others have done is to look for the passion in our tools the same way we do our toys. They're high quality and they're going to last a long time.
If you see an older woman cutting the grass with a John Deere, odds are the old man has passed away. j
Metod,
Not sure of your router table, riser, and 'mini' thoughts.
HZ started this thread looking to trade for festool stuff. He has a list of nice tools for sale ( routers, shaper, vac, sanders, a tool belt, and much more).
He's divorcing his old stuff, and panting over the green stuff.
It's just kind of humorous to see the superior passion played out. It's an interesting marketing plan. Seems to work very well. j
Metod,
I copy the high sky and the low water table.
When the dust settles we shall search for common ground or dirt as it may be.
It is time to tie a knot in this thread and move on. later. j
Hi
I have a few Festool products
Sander , Cordless Screwdriver , Contractors Saw ( Model ATF 55 E if I remember correctly ) plus the work table guides and clamps
But watch out the plastic components they degrade with time - Heads on clamps as well as the sanding pads for the orbital sander - Very disappointing to find that they can not be used after about 8 years when they have not been used much
Otherwise great tools
Rob
You wrote this:
"Very disappointing to find that they can not be used after about 8 years when they have not been used much."Just to confirm. You are complaining because your sanding pad has worn down after 8 years?
<<I was blown away by their entire product line.>>
hzwood,
I get a kick out of how these thread get into F vs E. The EZ system is a very nice guiderail system and if anyone wants to adapt their existing tools or buy new ones from whomever they wish to adapt to it, fine. But, as you pointed out in the beginning, you were blown away by their entire line. By that, I would presume you mean saws, routers, sanders, vacuums, cutting and assembly tables, etc. I think this is the content to which Matthew has been responding. Makes sense to me.
For someone to tout what is essentially one element of that offering, a guide system, albeit a very nice one, as comparable to the "Festool Line" is a stretch. IMO, the very best application for the EZ system is for someone who already has an array of tools that could be adapted to the guide system approach. However, if someone wants to procure for the first time or upgrade to higher quality power tools, the Festool system deserves very careful consideration.
Greg (probably the guy Paul is confusing with Matt) :-)
Ummmm... I don't think I'm confusing anyone Greg (rechecked my posts quickly) but if so, my apologies.
PaulB
Edited 7/16/2005 5:40 pm ET by PaulB
PaulB,
I admire your position on the EZ Smart System. I have no complaints about it, and I'm sure it has its strengths. Let's just leave it at this -- you are comparing the guide rail systems, but Festool is about a lot more than just a guide rail. They produce a whole line of machines, at superior levels. If all we're doing is comparing guide rails, then probably each has its strengths.Saw Mill Creek! No, I did not post about Festool over there, at least not recently. The only online forums where I discuss Festool are my Yahoo group, and here on Knots.
Edited 7/17/2005 6:56 am ET by Matthew Schenker
My apologies then Matt. I must be confusing you with someone else. What appeals to me about the SmartGuide is more than the rail, it's the philosophy embodied in the rail. The fact that I can use my PC saw, for instance, which I think has advantages for me over the Festool saw (not a big fan of plunge only saws). Not to mention my other tools, and the fact that Dino is always thinking of new uses and improvements that make it more and more versatile.
I'm baaaack!. I think you got it KayakGreg. It has been and interesting and informative discussion and I did spend some time at the EZ website and the product seems interesting and well thought out. But in the final analysis you are right, it is more the system of tools from Festool that have been so well thought out - it's like they asked and listened to a broad range of professionals. I have been increasingly disappointed in my Dewalt and P-C equipment for a variety of reasons.For my personal interest and the type of work that I like to do, about 2/3's of the Festool product line will fulfill 98% of the capability that I need. And it is not just that. If the vacuum works as I have heard, it is huge when you are working work in a clients house - and then the reusable bag, the ability to stack 4 or 5 tools or supplies in their boxes locked together, and a handle to roll the equipment for the day from my shop to truck to client's house - I'm loving it. Oh yeh, what about a single tool that is 1/2 the size of a cell phone that works on every fastener on every tool (I know you still need a collett wrench but only one)- I think I can afford it if I recycle the steel in my allen wrench collection and screw driver sets. The Centrotec chuck on the CCD cordless drill is great, the accessory and consumable support, and the ergonomic/safety/smoothness/sound levels. I do believe that the tools can have a beneficial impact on the result and I do know nice products when I see them - this stuff is a cut above what I am used to. I am not saying that the products that I have been using do not have an important purpose as they have served me fairly well overall and I know others who are totally happy with them. For what I like to do most, I am certain the Festool products will benefit me.I ordered the QF 1010 EQ router yesterday and will pick it up tuesday - The 1400/vac and 1080/ATF55 are next, and... At any rate. Thanks to all for sharing your experience and knowledge. Final note, I think any homo-sapien, man or woman, who picks up a tool - from a whittling knife to a CNC router to a chain saw - and takes it to a piece of wood and creates something that is pleasing or useful to a single person is fine by me and deserving of respect - regardless of the tools or methods that they use - and is great source to increase my understanding and knowledge. The best part of the 70 replies was the knowledge and experience of the posters. Thanks again.
KayakGreg,
You wrote this:
"I get a kick out of how these thread get into F vs E."Yes, these systems do have their insane supporters! But I want to be on record as saying that I am not against Easy Smart Guide, not any other company per se. I judge each product as I see it. But I am vocal about my support when a company does a good job, just like I don't hide my criticism when a company does not do a good job.You also wrote this:
"you were blown away by their entire line. By that, I would presume you mean saws, routers, sanders, vacuums, cutting and assembly tables, etc. I think this is the content to which Matthew has been responding. Makes sense to me."Yes, this is what I'm talking about. The Festool lineup all goes together very well, and from top to bottom the engineering what all worked out.Put it this way. If it turned out that EZ Smart Guide rails were better than Festool, I could see some customers buying one and using it exclusively for sawing, but I woul say the best combination would be to use it with a Festool circular saw!But I personally wouldn't do that, because I use my Festool guide rails with my circular saw, jigsaw, routers, and the Multi-Function Table.
Edited 7/17/2005 6:47 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew,
You wrote this?
Yes, these systems do have their insane supporters! But I want to be on record as saying that I am not against Easy Smart Guide, not any other company per se. I judge each product as I see it. But I am vocal about my support when a company does a good job, just like I don't hide my criticism when a company does not do a good job.
Or someone hijacked your computer?
Put it this way. If it turned out that EZ Smart Guide rails were better than Festool, I could see some customers buying one and using it exclusively for sawing, but I woul say the best combination would be to use it with a Festool circular saw!
Matthew? Was that you?
Cheers.
Chris.
chriswoo1,
That was partly my way of making fun of myself (the insane supporter comment), and partly my way of showing that I support good engineering, whoever does it!
Put it this way. If it turned out that EZ Smart Guide rails were better than Festool, I could see some customers buying one and using it exclusively for sawing, but I woul say the best combination would be to use it with a Festool circular saw!
Dino, the guy who invented the EZ Smart system, said as much himself on rec.woodworking some time ago.
Jason
JasonQ,
This just goes to show what I have been saying all along. No reason to bash one company or the other. Find the strengths of each one.Maybe a partnership between Festool and EZ Smart Guide would give us everything we need on the guide-rail front!!
59942.20
I've got one of their sanders and I love it, with the larger disks, more holes and quality mechanism it seems to sand a lot faster than others I've had.....
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