Seems like every woodworking mag or catalog is spotlighting Festool as if to implythey are the ultimate woodworking tools and those of us not willing to fork over the big bucks for their stuff are less than professional. Has anyone else seen this recent surge in their promotions? I struggle with shelling out almost $400.00 for a sander when my Porter Cable has served me well for over 15 years.
Is it hype or are they truely the ‘Rolls Royce’ of woodworking tools?
Replies
Probably more like the BMW or Porsche of woodworking tools. They're about performance, not luxury.
-Steve
My guess is that Festool has ramped up their ad program after seeing how well received their tools have been. I think the mags are just following the buyer's reactions (on Knots?) and want to provide info on a new tool line.
I bought a Rotex sander 3 years ago. A year later a dust extractor, then the 55 circular saw with guide rail. I am totally pleased and overwhelmed by the quality. Bit by bit, I suspect I will "go green".
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Dusty:
Festool products enjoy a high degree of loyalty from their users, known in some circles as "Festoolies". Such enthusiasm cannot stem from crappy products!
I started with the Domino and the mid-size vacuum. I followed with the 6 inch ROS, which makes sanding a pleasure because you are not enveloped in clouds of dust. The tools are well engineered and work as advertised. They are not for everyone, but they are not trying to appeal to the broad market.
Get the sander and vac and you'll have to change your screen name to "Dustless1"
Regards,
Hastings
Dusty1,
Don't listen to advertising hype, what is important is are you enjoying what you do and are you happy with your projects. What brand tool you use doesn't really matter, it's the final result that matters. Nice tools are great but to buy them because everybody else says there the best is a mistake, buy them because they meet your needs and budget. if the porter cable sander you have works well and fits your needs why replace it.
Festool makes some great tools, some are extremely innovative and the ones I have are nice but they don't define me as a furnituremaker, that's what my furniture is for.
The greatest tool in the world is pretty useless if it doesn't fit your needs.
Festool is doing what any good company should do and that is growing there brand and the easiest way to do that is through advertising that is targeted to there potential customers.
Bottom line is if Festool has a tool that works for you buy it, they should last forever and are very well made, yes they are expensive but compared to other well made tools they are fairly competitive.
Tom Stockton
Don't listen to advertising hype, what is important is are you enjoying what you do and are you happy with your projects. What brand tool you use doesn't really matter, it's the final result that matters.
That's true. But equally, the final result is often dependent not just on the ability of the woodworker but on the ability of his tools.
When my ancient (let's talk about 40 plus years) circular saw finally gave out, I decided to try the Festool saw. What an incredible difference. My Craftsman would cut straight most of the time, but I spent a lot of time setting up the straight edge and even with a newly sharpened blade I spent time sanding the edge of the plywood or MDF after I had cut it. With the Festool, I lay down the guide on two marks, cut, and that's it. Angle cuts, no problem with measuring or where is the cut going to be. Plunge cuts, ditto. This is a dream, and there's no other saw I know of with the same capabilities. Well worth the money.
I've only had it a year so far, so don't know whether I'll get another 39 out of it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised. The thing is quality built.
I think there good tools well worth the money what I'm saying is decide for yourself what you need don't let an advertiser do it for you.
For me the circular saw is a great example, what I use one for is cutting up 2x4's and rough framing type stuff were a saw gets fairly hard service. For what I need it for the festool saw would be a waste of a fine piece of equipment and good quality skillsaw does the job and does it very well for a quarter of the price. And if it gets dirty or smacked off of some saw horses it isn't a big deal.
For the uses you need a circular saw for the Festool is a great tool and if that was what I needed it for It would be on my wish list.
As far as ability of your tools versus ability of the craftsman when I started making furniture for a living I had some pretty bad power tools and the work I did with them was very high quality and no lower than when I upgraded my tools. The difference is in ease of use which is what I think you are saying, for the most part Festool tools are easy to set up and use and there accessories actually work
I thought it was all hype until I happened to try out a Festool orbital sander at a Woodcraft demo day (I was actually just bored because I had a line to wait through for something else I had come to see and try out). I am sensitive to a sander's continuous vibration and used to lose the feeling in my hands after about 15 minutes. The Festool was a dream come true, and I ended up buying the 150/3 and a boatload of paper. Both are superb and were/are worth every penny to me; the days of numb and painful hands are gone, the paper is very durable, and dust is minimal. My sander was $250 minus the small rebate at the time.
That being said, my budget has limits and I haven't gone "green" because I am happy with my other tools seeing no need to replace them and also because of all the extra "green" that stays in my wallet!! I agree with the opinion that the Festool is just like any other premium tool: if it meets your need you won't be disappointed.
Rob
Dusty,
I don't have any Festools, but I work at Woodcraft for about 11 hours a week. I can tell you that contractors and hobbyists alike love their Festools. No one returns them. They come back for more. The contractors tell me that they make more money because the tools are so good.
It is amazing. I hear good and bad about just about everything. But I haven't heard anything bad about Festools. By the way, I don't work "on commission". This me "me" talking, not Woodcraft.
I look at new tools when they get into Woodcraft. I look for advantages and limitations of each. It is a barrel of fun doing this. There is no doubt that Festool has a great group of designers, and that they have management which does not let new tools get out before they are ready. I watch what has happened to Delta, for example, and I am saddened.
If I am so enthralled with Festools, why don't I have any? Great question. I have most of the tools I need. I don't spend money on tools unless I really need em. I have a samder. a circular saw, a vac, etc. When they wear out, I'll replace them, and I am sure that Festool fits in.
But it is more than just quality. They have gone 10 steps above and beyond. That Domino is fantastic. It will let a person who has never made a mortise and tenon joint into an expert in minutes. People can build finer furniture, quicker, and with fewer hand skills than ever before. Is this good? Sure. If someone wants to develop hand skills (like I want to), then they should. But if they want to build quality furniture with M&T joints quickly and well, why not use the Domino. This is a revolutionary tool, and it is well done.
I like great tool companies, both small (Mike Wenzloff, Philip Marcou, etc), medium size companier (Lie Nielsen) and the biggies (you know who they are), when those companies do what it takes to turn out quality tools. I believe that Festool fits the bill. It ain't hype. That is good stuff. Try it out. BUT WATCH OUT. It is addictive.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Not that I think there is anything wrong with it but I wonder how many tools their marketing department gave away. You see the tools in all sorts of product advertisements from other companies and even some TV shows that are woodworking related.
I do not own one and probably never will. Well, maybe if I see 'something I just have to have'.
<<I wonder how many tools their marketing department gave away>>I know of at least one woodworking school that was the beneficiary of Festool's assistance -- not sure if it was an outright gift or pricing discounts. This is a great marketing tactic as it put the manufacturers' product in the hands of prospective customers, AND it helped the school acquire tools that it might otherwise not have spent the money on. The tools were sanders and vacuums. Personally, I never warmed up to the product or brand, but others really liked them and may have purchased some Festool stuff later on.Mike
That is what kept Apple computers going years ago, the fact that they were in the schools and the teacher used to get a good deal on them. Add in placement in TV and movies (still happens a LOT) and Apple did a good job of staying alive.
Doug
<<Apple did a good job of staying alive>>It was touch and go there for a while, wasn't it? A whole different ball game now though. Uncle Steve returned and has delivered us to the promised land.
I hate to break your hart but I am a PC guy, still I understand and like what Steve has done with Apple.
As to Festool I like thier stuff and would buy some of it (the say and guide I love) but I just can not justify the cost. If I did this for a living that would be different.
Doug
There is another reason you are seeing qute a few retailers selling Festool. So far Festool has been able to hold their retailers to the listed price or periodic specials. That's good for the retailer because they make a larger margin - the current cut throat market for most brands can hurt a small tool supplier. But eventually someone will brake ranks and then the sparks will fly.
We just started carrying Festool where I work and I don't think you have to worry about anybody breaking ranks. Festool is very strict about their prices, Unlike the other Major tool Co's, their prices are in the catalog and that's what they stay till they are changed in the next catalog. Any variation from the catalog and you no longer sell Festol. Period. And I sure like the level playing ground, Eat your hearts out Box Stores.
I played with the rotex sander and it is a marvel of a beast, The direct drive feature gets her done NOW.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Up until the early 1970's, most major brands stuck to the list price - B&D, Porter-Cable, Stanley, etc. But then a back door opening was found and along with pressure to sell more tools, price rules disappeared.
The back door is very simple - you buy a lot from a dealer, say a lumber yard. If you have sufficient volume over a given period, you get an across the board discount on your monthly invoice. And the tool manufacturer only sees the sales receipt that is issued at time of sale. The discount gets applied later as against a total balance that is not itemized. Believe me, if there is a way and money is invoilved, folks will figure out a way. It's only a matter of time.
I have one of their small sanders and it seems like a well made as well as a well thought out and engineered tool. I liken Festol products to Hasselblad cameras, the cameras are great but you also pay a premium for things like lens caps and accessories which are not that much different or better than anyone else's.
Troy
I purchased the C12 drill. Other than the weird case (yes, yes, I understand their plan, but it's still a silly orientation for a handle on such a narrow case...) it's met my every need, and done so with class and aplomb (and god know's I need both, LOL).
Next Festool- some sort of sander.
Hi Dusty,
Without reading through the replies, let me put it this way.
The builders here use Makita, etc...
The shopfitters, joiners, cabinetmakers, tend to use Festool/Festo/Elu.
More reliable and more accurate, as well as more efficient.
Do you need them as a hobbyist? Probably not, but their reputation is above.
Cheers,
eddie
I've been using Festool Circular saws for about 7 years with pretty good results. It's not for everyone I know, but I do a lot of 7' to 16' cuts on door sections/slabs & for a cut like that the guide rail is THE BOMB!. I get lan 1/8" or less deflection on my long cuts.
I also use it for straightline ripping of wood in the rough. Works great, after the jointer it's perfect. Average time to straightline 25 pcs of 5/4 mahogany, 1/2hr. On the $7,000.00 to $45,000.00 or more ripp saw, 10 minutes. I don't mind the 1/2 hour.
I don't have the budget or the room in my shop for a panelsaw, & don't want one now. The dust collection is excellent & quiet (I use as a shop vac also on installation jobs) though be careful with the bags, their pricey, then again at $1400.00+ for the 8" set-up, whats $5.00 a bag matter? . . . A friggin LOT. I'm good at getting 6-10 uses outta 1 bag, heh heh heh.
I know quite a few finish carpenters, about 1/2 have Festools. The hype isn't all that true, but it's a good tool, is it worth the extra bucks?
Yep.
Bob Schilke
This may interest some...
I was doing a project involving inlaying some 1/8" strips of padauk and walnut into some curly maple. I was using my PC router with a bushing to rout out the design against a template ( simple squares and eggs ). I realized that the guide bushings for the PC would fit on my new Festool router, so I excitedly switched it over so I could the Festool. What happened next was a bit of a surprise. The batch of 1/8" strips ( fine tuned to fit ) would not fit when routed with the Festool! I belive this has to do with the lack of run-out at the collet of the Festool. Its smooth and quiet operation is a bonus. Extremely precise tool.
Regards, Sean
"Is it hype or are they truely the 'Rolls Royce' of woodworking tools?" I'm not a rabid Festertoolian- don't own any Festool but have tried them and could easily see how one could become addicted. They seem well designed and well made and you pay for it. Having said that my decade old 333 is still kickin' and at twice the price I don't see where Festool's ES125 offers any real advantage.
Edited 10/15/2007 1:32 am ET by jc21
Have CT22 vac (medium sized one). Have both anti static and cheaper
hoses. All seem to have the business end unscrew about once a week.
Bothersome.
Have 55 saw. Works as advertised, once you have it you need it.
But the blades go dull quickly when used in partical board and melamine.
Id buy the larger saw next time. More power, more teeth.The prices are high which is what it is but the real pain is
the really high price on extra bits. Those for the vac , such
as hoses and tubes are insane.
The prices are what scared me away. I use PC's dust hose hooked to a 20 gal Shop Vac with a HEPA filter and filter bags. Not as pretty, quiet, or as refined as a Festool and I seriously doubt it will last as long but I'd wager a dollar or two my dust collection is equally effective as a Festool and for me it's a far more cost effective solution. My 333, Shop Vac, hose and adapter, filter and bags didn't cost half of what the CT 22 cost. It does the job and fits my other PC tools. Having said that if I were starting over I'd seriously consider Festool. It's quality stuff, well integrated with dust collection being a primary design concern.
I bought a Festool tool and it works fine, but many of my tools that are far less expensive work just fine too. With the exception of when I use my Festool tool in private, I keep it hidden in a cabinet. - Why? The color scheme gives away the manufacturer, and as hard as money is to come by, I’m ashamed for people to know I spent so much on a power tool. Perhaps I have too much humility or maybe I feel like an irresponsible child for having spent so much on what is essentially a hobbyist toy for me.
I won't take mine to my woodworking classes at the local college for the same reason... not worried that they will get taken... just feel funny about flaunting that a relative beginner has such tools...Drew
Quality tools, no matter Festool, or Lie Nielsen, or good chisels or what not make the job easier, not only to execute, but I think they can help the learning process too. Why wouldn't you take advantage of the best you can afford? When I started this endeavor around 10 yrs ago, I had low quality tools, and I didn't know how to use them. This was frustrating at times, but I worked through it--I read a lot of books and made a lot of dust. I soon found the joy of using fine tools, and I was immediaely hooked.
I do this as a professional now, so I can justfy new tools, and as a recent convert to the green way of tools, I must say that they are indeed the Porsche of power tools--Expensive in every aspect, but finely tuned,German engineered, and ready to go all day. They have easily offset their expenses in labor saved for me.
Peter
www.jpswoodworking.com
It is funny in a way but we often have the worst tools when we need the best. It is one thing to try and overcome a bad tool when you have lots of experience, but to try to get the hang of wood working with bad tools is not a good way of doing this. But that is I bet how most of us started (with Bad tools)
Doug
Caught a show of "Free form furniture" with Amy Devers. And noticed that she was using Festool products. Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Amy Devers. And noticed that she was using Festool products. Never noticed any tools... I must have been just watchin' her...
Old but not that old, noticed Her too ;-)Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I watch her when I can.. She is a VERY smart woman.. As most are.. They just do not tell us and keep us wonderin'...Edit: I watched her on that Log Cabin thing.. She wanted the rail post for the enrty of the stairs smaller in scale.. All the guys looked at each other.. And just did what she wanted.. It looked ALOT better!Edited 11/4/2007 10:03 am by WillGeorge
Edited 11/4/2007 10:03 am by WillGeorge
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled