I have a small basement shop. I have been doing cabinet work and built in cases for my house and relatives. I have been moving 4×8 sheets and cutting large panels with a circular saw with/ straight edge and the TS. Are the track saws worth the $$$ ? Are there any other besides Festool and Dewalt?
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Replies
Makita also makes one.
My son has the DeWalt version and I really like it. The Festool is probably nicer, but I can say that the DeWalt version is the cat's meow.
Mike D
If you have a circular saw you can buy a track from this guy.
http://eurekazone.com/products/detail/sgs.html
They work well and are less than a complete Dewalt or Festool kit.
I have one, 100" kit, and it works just as well as a Festool. I have not used a Dewalt.
F.
I love my TS55 track saw! It's great for cutting down 4x8 sheets. Accurate and amazing dust collection. I'm sure the other systems are nice as well. But I'd recommend the Festool over the other saws, why? If you want to build on the track saw with the MFT3 table and guide rail system, it's there for you.
I have the Festool TS75 and two lengths of guides. I work in a small shop and even in my shop to come I don't want to give up permanent floor space for the extensions on the table saw that I think I need to do cut sheet goods safely on the table saw. (I'm not the most experienced woodworker, not the most efficient, and not the most nervous, but respectful).I like the TS75. Lots of power, good dust collection as others have said. Great cuts and at the end of the day I decided I wanted an upper end system - I guess if I don't pong a few sheets of expensive sheet goods I will have made up the difference in price. One caution though with the use of track systems, well the Festool system in particular. Although they are very accurate, ie can be positioned right to your marking line, I found that reproducibility was an issue. Maybe I'm a bad marker and i'll accept that. Two suggestions for help. First, the track should be placed on the good side of the cut line wherever possible, otherwise you have to account for the kerf width loss. Secondly, if you wish to cut smaller strips and cannot put the track on the good side of the cut line, Festool makes a parallel guide system that allows for very, very reproducible cuts. It will allow repetitive cuts of 26" down to as narrow as you want. There is a great youtube video clip of this - search Festool parallel guides and it will come up.Overall I am very happy with the choice. It works for me for space and safety reasons. Cost was a minor issue and I respect the considerations that cost require in other people's choices
If you are competent with a circular saw, and (important!) get good results/cuts, why bother?
Of course, if dust is an issue, then you 'owe' it to yourself to upgrade <g>. Which one? I have neither, but there are articles out there that compare some of them.
Best wishes,
Metod
The key to performance of these track saws is that they have provisions make cuts with zero clearance. This can dramatically improve the quality of the cuts, if the application calls for that.
True, but you can add a zero-clearance plate to any CS at minimal cost, and some of them , e.g. the mag base PC, have dust collection also. It's hard to justify the cost for the upper-end track systems if you're only an occasional cutter of sheetgoods.
Jim
Steve,
Good point about zero clearance. Worth remembering (if I get to be on the market for such saw). Of course, if the uts are already good <g>...
Best wishes,
Metod
Metod,You bring up an interesting point. I for one am not very competent with a circular saw. I've seen many people that can work the a skil saw with amazing accuracy. I for one, cannot and really have come to rely on a track saw for most of my cuts where it requires me to bring a tool to the work.
My choice of the term 'incompetent' was a hasty one, and should be 'not efficient'. Efficiency comes with practice (for us hobbyists often not much of it), while the quality of the work can be had at the expense of longer times. For me, it is important to know what I wish to accomplish, then chose the means to do it (within my means :-) ).
Best wishes,
Metod
If you are competent with a circular saw, and (important!) get good results/cuts, why bother?
I've been a woodworker for about ten years, and a carpenter for about 25. So, I'm at least OK with a circ saw. But a track saw is a different beast from a circ. You can't make laser straight cuts with a circ, I can with my Festool. A track saw has more in common with a table saw than with a sidewinder.
Count you blessings that you have a Festool for a laser straight cuts; others are blessed because they actually can make such cuts with 'lesser' circular saws. Often there are a variety of means to accomplish the same goal, and a variety of reasons to choose among them.
Best wishes,
Metod
Sure, you couls use a circ saw, and put a guide on the side, and make very straight cuts. But probably not as fast or as good as a rail saw.
And no one can freehand as good as a rail saw.
What? a Husqvarna Rail Saw? Giant gas powered metal cutting saw? I think you're on the wrong forum! ;).
I have the smaller Festool and it makes cutting plywood simple and is amazingly accurate. Just place the track to the line and go. Dust collection is really good as well. It is much faster and more accurate than I ever managed with a straight edge and regular circular saw. I used to cut oversize and trim with the TS, but the Festool track system is much easier to control, especially on larger pieces. I suspect the other systems are fine also.
With the Festool guide rail and the splinter guard on the saw you'll get also splinter free cuts on upper side of the cut. This is a feature that I like a lot too.
Dumb question but what holds these tracks to the work?
For some reason I thought is was vacuem ?
Scratching head X3
They have low slip pads on the bottom that generally work ok, but for work on smooth surfaces, such as pre-finished ply, there are also clamps that fit into grooves on the bottoms.
Thanks. another life mystery solved. Now what am going to think about Ahh got it!! spray foam.
What I have found that wasn't addressed by the comments above is the ability to cut tapered extensions for out of plumb door jambs. I have the eurekazone system and it has worked well for my DIY carpentry, and I also have the router attachment which I haven't used yet.
I'm coming late to this converstation but I'll throw my 2cw in. I like you relied on a strait edge and a CS (mine was a PC with a forrest WWII) and it did the job and a great cut. It was a pain in the arse to handle fiddle with and get lined up to make the cut making sure I measured properly form the edge of the saw base to the line to cut. I also had to be careful to keep it to the edge so the line remained true. I now have the TS55 trak saw. All I can say is its fantastic. The clamps slide into the guide to secure to the wood if you need it. If you put the panel on a sheet of insulation and the guide the friction should keep it in place. The guide edge is plastic (replacable) and is trimed perfectly to fit the blade with the first cut. It simply guids the track. The TS55 will handle any plywood. The TS75 is more for cutting thick hardwoods. It also works with their table system the MFT3 and you can either connect the guides or buy ones long enought to do what you want. The others are copies of the Festool and one even copied exactly the rail track system you could interchange them. I'm sure others can get the job done, but with the Festool quality and warantee you cant go wrong. Be careful though. Once you get that first festool (and I questioned the cost/value) you will not go back and it will only cause you to buy more festool. Here's a link that shows the functionality pretty well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zpAKpw_aZc
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
If you can arrange it, you should see if you can test drive either the DeWalt or Festool rail saws on a project that means something to you.
The problem is .... that the dedicated saw/guide combination is just so darn convenient, fast, accurate, dust free, and set-up friendly (see the previous adjectives) that you WANT one, NOW. (I'm sure that little Jimmy's college fund won't miss just one little, one time, $800 expense, all things considered.) :)
Mike D
I have a small basement shop. I have been doing cabinet work and built in cases for my house and relatives. I have been moving 4x8 sheets and cutting large panels with a circular saw with/ straight edge and the TS. Are the track saws worth the $$$ ? Are there any other besides Festool and Dewalt?
Makita, Hilti, Maffel and EZ.
For cabinet work you need a system with 49" capacity and the ability to rip very narrow strips with repeatability provisions.
The Dewalt and Makita are good but with limited offerings.
If you only need a track saw system for reducing large panels to manageable smaller pieces for further cutting on your tablesaw,
Makita and Dewalt can do the job just fine.
I like the Dewalt track better. You can use it with other saws and you can cut on both sides of the track. A big plus in my book.
The plunge system on the Dewalt saw is much better than other plunge saws. A well designed plunge mechanism instead of a spring that can
get stuck from sawdust resulting in nasty kickbacks.
The other choice is Eurekazone and Festool systems.
With E and F you can actually cut the panels to finished size without
going to the table or panel saw.
The F system offers the parallel guides with 8" and 26" capacity.
8" on the right and 26" on the left side of the sawblade.
The parrallel guides is similar to Ez Repeaters with
38" on the right and 42" capacity on the left side of the blade.
I own the wooden legs version of the new ez super power bench.
The tilting top feature allows me to cross cut 48" without bending
and stretching. The Ez Bridge-(B-300) is self adjusting to the thickness of the wood and the same time acts like a 50" long clamp.
You can see the EZ-SPB at the new eurekazone forum.
http://www.tracksawforum.com
Festool offers the MFT at much lower price but without the ez options and capacity. You can see the MFT at the http://www.festoolownersgroup.com.
disclosure.
I worked for eurekazone for 2 years
and I don't pay for any of my ez tools.
J.tsekas
I think I am fairly unique in that I have used, owned, and discarded both systems. I just could not get used to working that way. Yes, they work. The EZ System was much fussier to adjust and set up, and the Festool was breathtakingly expensive. In the end, neither worked for me. If you've learned one way-in my case, rough cuts with a circ saw and cleaning up on the TS-it may be quite a leap to invest in one of these systems and expect them to change your world. I was looking for that, and it was a futile attempt. YMMV, of course, but I would encourage anyone considering these systems to get as much time on them as possible before sinking the cash into them. I know that's not always realistic but that's what I wish I did.
Most nights are crystal clear, but tonight it's like he's stuck between stations.
OK, I gotta ask...Why did they not work for you? Details are important here.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 10/8/2009 11:20 pm by PeterDurand
I just couldn't get used to it all. As someone noted above, repeatability is an issue-you have to measure and mark each and every time. Laying the track down, making sure it lined up on both sides, clamping if necessary, making the cut, etc etc. To me that method of work is just too fussy. In my formative woodworking years, I worked at a production cabinet shop where most of the sheet goods were cut on a beam saw. But every so often we had to break down a full sheet ourselves on a cabinet saw. The guy I worked with showed me the "right" way to do this, and as long as you have enough space it's pretty easy to do. So I just keep doing that.
In all honesty, I usually have sheet goods broken down at a supplier now. I no longer have a truck, and it's hard to get full sheets of plywood in a small car or a minivan that has 3 child seats in it.
I'm not saying they're no good. The EZ is ingenious and shows what one determined man can do when he thinks there is a better way. The Festool is a really well-engineered machine and works well as part of the system. In the end, neither one were the answer for me and that has more to do with me than the systems themselves.
As a side note, when I got the Festool I went HARD into Festool-2 sanders, the saw, a vac, router, the table, and other stuff. (I came into a little $.) I sold most of it last year; I just sold off the sanders and vac this week, and that was the end of the Festool experiment for me. Good tools, but I just didn't see them living up to the hype for me. Plus they are SO expensive that I didn't think they were worth it in the end. Obviously others have a vastly different outlook than I do, and the Festool forums are full of people who the tools work extremely well for. I just wasn't one of them.
Happy to discuss further if anyone is interested. I am not trying to start a war here though! I won't respond to any flames if anyone goes down that road.
Most nights are crystal clear, but tonight it's like he's stuck between stations.
Are the track saws worth the $$$ ? Sort of! IF you do alot of it!
I would say save the money and get more wood! IF you do Ok as is!
I own a Festool Ts75EQ, it is an amazing tool..
Almost no dust when cutting 1" MDF when using a Festool vacuum, the quality of the cut surface I think is better than I can get on my Unisaw with a Forrest WWII. Best of all I don't have to attempt to wrestle the 4 x 8 sheet onto the tablesaw..
I'll add some more info to the conversations here. I too was interested and at a recent tool show made a point of viewing and trying all 3. The Festool was wonderful; but that price yikes! I settled on the DeWalt though as soon as I saw/tried it with the the T-jig that you can get for the track, i.e. just measure and make your mark, throw on the track and away you go. No need for 2 marks. Simple
Good luck
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