Replies

1. 
   SawdustSteve | Dec 19, 2004 08:22pm | #1

   Hi Jay ... Different brands of epoxy dry different colors. There are powdered stains which are designed to tint epoxy. Try VanDykes for it. In my limited experience, shellac stick is good for small spots, a 1/2" x 4" section is a bit large for shellac stick. Do you have enough 'scrap' to match the grain and make a patch in that one spot? A bit of work with a fine paintbrush and stain may really blend in the repair. That may be a simpler solution to your problem.
   SawdustSteve

1. 
   JayS | Dec 20, 2004 06:12am | #3

   I was hoping not to tint it, but to leave it clear.  Iwas just afraid it would turn white.  The bark inclusion looks natural, so at least it's a flaw in the wood rather than the workmanship.  I think some form of patch would be impossible to blend in.  I could just use a new board, but the grain would never match the rest of the door parts.

   I have attached two photos, one of the defect on each door stile, to see if this gives you any ideas.

   
1. 
   vern | Dec 20, 2004 06:52am | #4

   wow you didn't memtion how deep this fault is according to the picture that I looked at it has got to mighty deep-- in fact so deep it is like a black hole-- I mean the picture is black-- but let me ask --is there any way that you could replace this whole situation? that would be my first choice come back with the depth and I will proceedmaking sawdust

1. 
   JayS | Dec 20, 2004 08:32am | #5

   The crevice portion is probably about 1/4 inch deep, but is narrow.  I thought it might not look so bad if a transparent material such as epoxy were used to fill it flush to the surface.  I viewed the photo I posted and for some reason it displayed extremely magnified.  The defect is about 1/2 inch wide and about 4 - 5 inches long.  If I discard this board, I will have to use a stile that will never match the color or grain pattern of the others.  Therefore, I would have to start all over again, with 4 new stiles, and two new rails, and re- cut the mortise and Tenon joints.  I could do this of course, but would have wasted at least 4 hours of work.

1. 
   vern | Dec 21, 2004 06:45am | #8

   jayst-- I think I would have to agree with DPR--especially if it might be against the wall sometimes if I delibertly use an open knot in a box I'll use clear epoxy and fill off some brass and mix the fillings in with the epoxy--fill it proud and sand it down smooth and let the brass hinges and handles flirt with it-- it takes a special , deep thinking person to buy this one---keep up the good workmaking sawdust

2. 
   JayS | Dec 21, 2004 07:28am | #10

   I appreciate the input.  The only thing about a cabinet like this is that the tombstone doors are often kept open to display the books or other items on the shelves, so I am veneering both sides of the raised panel with crotch walnut.  This way the doors can be viewed equally whether open or shut. The inside becomes as important as the outside.  The brass filings is an interesting idea, but since I do this in the basement shop as a non-professional, and this is going to be in my house, I think it would call attention to it too much.  I though I was my own worst critic, but my family members don't pull too many punches!

   Jay

3. 
   vern | Dec 21, 2004 07:51am | #11

   O K if you are veneering ply for a tomestone raised panel how are you treating the edge of the panel ?making sawdust

4. 
   JayS | Dec 21, 2004 03:28pm | #12

   The door panel is straight grained solid walnut, so the panel edge will be solid wood.  The crotch figure veneer will only be on the flat surface of the panel (Front and back).  I was going to veneer the panel first, then use the panel raising bit on the router table to both cut the bevel on the solid wood  and trim the veneer flush to the edge of the surface.

   The only disadvantage is that you con't see the crotch figure continue onto the bevel.  I thin this is is still esthetically OK, as the bevel will act as a visual frame.  Solid crotch material of this size (anout 32 inches long) is hard to find and VERY expensive if you do.  You also have to have a bandsaw that can resaw stock 12 inches wide, so the pair of doors will match.

5. 
   vern | Dec 23, 2004 08:11am | #13

   yes I think I understand what you are going to do-- do you think your panel raising bit is going to cut the veneer clean enough to look good-- I would definitly tape the area-- in fact-- I would go as far as to do a mock up and if it presents a problem you have only ruined some cheap veneer if I remember right you said your home made veneer is quite thick -- but the thicker it is .the more the trsnsition will show-- just thinking out loud-- because what you will be exposing will be end grain it will be darker and will act as a frame around the figured panel -- might be an interesting look -- letr me know how it comes out -- I might give it a try myselfmaking sawdust

6. 
   JayS | Dec 23, 2004 02:50pm | #14

   The veneer is not homemade, but is thicker than usual.  Yes the edge will be exposed, but although it's thick for commercial veneer, it's still less than 1/16, and after being sanded it will be a little thinner than that. The panel raising bit is brand new and sharp and should cut cleanly if the feed rate isn't too fast.  When I used a laminate trimmer and a flush trim bit to cut the same veneer on drawer fronts, it cut cleanly.  No reason to think the larger bit won't do the same.  If you scrape a panel like this, you have to be careful near the edges since the scraper can hang over the edge of the panel and crack off some veneer.  I will be applying with hide glue.  When you hammer veneer hide glue, you know, you put glue on the front surface as well.  This should stiffen and stabilize the veneer.  Since I do this at home on weekends and whenever I can get  in the shop, I may not finish these panels for a few more weeks, especially with holidays etc..  When I'm done I can post a photo.

   Jay

7. 
   BArnold | Dec 23, 2004 03:04pm | #15

   Jayst,

   Just a thought about your veneered raised panel.  I've done some doors and drawer fronts similar to your description: veneered center section surrounded by solid wood.  The way we did this was to build a mitered frame that was about 1/4" wider than the panel-raising bit would cut.  The inside of the frame was filled with plywood or MDF (whatever we had on hand).  The frame/filler was flat-sanded, then the veneer was pressed onto the assembly; the veneer didn't have to cover the assembly completely, just extend into the area the panel-raising bit would cut.  The result is a neatly-framed veneered section which is further enhanced by the rail-and-stile structure.  Incidently, some of the raised panels we did like this were black walnut with crotch walnut veneer.

   Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

8. 
   Dave45 | Dec 23, 2004 05:36pm | #16

   Bill -

   Do you have any pics of one of those doors?  I've been thinking of trying something like that. 

9. 
   BArnold | Dec 23, 2004 06:17pm | #17

   Dave,

   I was afraid you'd ask that.  I don't have any photos of them and the shop I worked in for a while where we did them went bankrupt.  If you need additional detail, I can work up a drawing for you.

    Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

10. 
    Dave45 | Dec 23, 2004 06:39pm | #18

    That's ok, Bill.  The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.  Raised panel doors are kinda expensive and can get pretty heavy.  I get lots of customers who want raised panel doors until they see the price. - lol

    Just for grins, I'm going to try making one with a plywood panel in a mitered frame which will then be run thru the panel raising cutter.  If it works, it may give me a whole new look for my doors that will be less expensive and lighter.  It would also eliminate the end grain cuts on the panels.  Mine always need a bit of sanding. - lol

    I'll get pics when I do this so everyone can beat me up with ideas and suggestions - lol

     

11. 
    JayS | Dec 24, 2004 01:23am | #19

    I didn't quite follow what you said about the mitered assembly.  I just have a solid piece of straight grained walnut to act as a sustrate for the veneer (about 5/8 thick).  If the substrate were ply or a n assembly of some sort, the panel raising bit would expose plies instead of solid wood.

    Jay

12. 
    BArnold | Dec 24, 2004 06:08pm | #20

    Jayst,

    Here's a graphic that should clarify the process.

     Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

    Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

    
2. 
   dryhter | Dec 21, 2004 12:44am | #7

   Just leave it alone.It's on the backside.Anything you do will draw more attention to it.Your Craftmanship is impecable.You've made the choice what looks best on the outside.The best choice. Let that small natural inclusion be apart of the whole piece. Don,t get so wraped up in striving for perfection that you lose sight of whole picture. Not everyone would think of that inclusion as a defect. Some may consider that as part of the character of the peice that makes it unique and personal.

1. 
   derekb | Dec 21, 2004 06:57am | #9

   I agree with DPR  leave it alone.  The maker always sees the little flaws and it drives us nuts.  When I build something and I see little flaws in it, I let others look at it and they all respond the same,  "What flaws".  In your case it may be a bigger flaw, but once it has been shellaced it will look just fine.

   we are our own worst critic

   Derek

2. 
   notDusty | Dec 19, 2004 08:31pm | #2

                     Hi Jay ,

          You could certainly fill the area in question , with one of several materials , however IMO the area will always look like a patch or flaw or repair . Just an idea but another way to approach this would be to rout in a patch with matching grained wood , or better yet maybe you could make one of those bow tie , butterfly looking patches , and while you are doing it do both doors in the same spot and use contrasting colored wood to the Walnut . Then instead of repairing a flaw and trying to hide it you would be decorating and showing off an otherwise undesireable area . Figured Walnut with grain and coloring you describe can be difficult to match .

                               good    luck                  dusty

3. 
   joinerswork | Dec 20, 2004 05:01pm | #6

   JAYST,

   I think the easiest repair might be epoxy, as you suggested.  Try what is available, the various brands of 5 minute stuff around here harden clear.  You can tint with dry colors, as suggested, or mix with fine sawdust from your project, to color it. 

   If you have a thin piece of the same stock, it may be possible to dress your frame member down 1/16" thinner, then cover the flawed side with a piece of shopmade veneer. 

   Regards,

   Ray