I have been working on learning to cut dovetails, old sharp Buck Brothers chisels and new to me, used Lie-Nielsen saws. I started with a $14 saw. I included a pic of progress, I have made six now and starting on the seventh. I switched saws on #5 and it shows. The only way to learn to make dovetails is to make dovetails, but ask questions.
I started with Pine, switched to Poplar now trying White Oak. I just finished cutting these and need to fine tune the fit now, the second picture. I have some paring to do and wondering how to mark the wood or something to know what to pare when I lift it. I seem to forget quickly and you can mess the pins up fast. Is there a process or method at this step? I want to make the tote in the latest issue of FWW. Thanks.
Replies
While this doesn't address your specific question, here's some good fundamentals to help tune up the cutting and paring..
Don’t Fear the Hand-Cut Dovetail
In the first part of this two-part article, a modern master reveals every step of his system for cutting dovetails...tails first.
By Christian Becksvoort #238–Jan/Feb 2014 Issue
https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/joinery/dont-fear-the-hand-cut-dovetail-part-1
How to Cut and Fit Perfect Dovetail Pins
In the second part of this two-part article, Chris Becksvoort explains how to transfer the tail layout to the pins, cut the pins, and assemble the joint.
By Christian Becksvoort #239–Mar/Apr 2014 Issue
https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/joinery/how-to-cut-and-fit-perfect-dovetail-pins-part-2
Thanks, I'll watch. I already signed up for the dovetail course here on FWW with Bob Van Dyke. It really takes practice to find the groove, while watching these kinds of videos. Thinking
One basic improvement would perhaps be to use knifed lines rather than a pencil. (You can make them more visible, once cut, with an ultra-thin pencilled fill-in - 0.3mm lead). Knifed lines can be more accurate since they're very thin. They can also give something of a physical (as well as by-eye) guidance to the saw.
I once made a tallboy with six drawers of increasing size, out of cherry. It was also a learning experience in handcut dovetailing, which I adopted as such because I knew I'd be cutting dozens of the bluddy things. And so it was.
I made many errors in the first (small) drawer but the experience plus endless advice from FWW articles and the then-forum Knots meant the next 5 drawers were pretty good. I re-used the sides from drawer one to make a small box (smaller than the drawer. :-) Drawer one became the new drawer six and by then I was much better at getting them pins & tails cut, often to right-first-time standard.
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Another basic improvement can possibly be made by improving the visuals when you're marking-out and cutting. I found it quite difficult to see the work clearly enough, especially with smaller dovetails in darker woods, so ended up buying one of those big ring lights around a large magnifying lens, all on an articulating arm.
That did make everything very clear .... but it was a big clumsy thing in practice. I now use a small battery-powered but very adaptable light to illuminate obscure small work pieces. (The ladywife has inherited to bigger item for use sewing teddy bears and leatherwork).
The small battery light is very bright and can be positioned easily & anywhere to give direct, backlit or raking light. The pic shows it magnetically-clagged to the drill press but it can be stood, hung or magnetically-clagged anywhere then pointed at various angles in three planes.
Just wanted to say, nice job! I like your approach, and those look great for where you are in the process. You’re well on your way :)
I use utility knife with razor blade, use the cut line to get final dimension. Practice will improve the visual product. But I have made some really terrible looking dovetail joints that are structurally very strong.
FWW has an excellent tutorial on cutting dovetails. In the Video Workshop section, go to Shop Projects and select the North Bennett Street Toolbox with Matt Wadja. it is super clear, and converted me from a "tails first" guy to a "Pins first" guy. I've done a million dovetails in my life, but this was still super helpful and refined by technique, with better, tighter DT's.
As a shameless plug for MJ, you can also check out the Tailspin collinear Marking tools. https://www.tailspintools.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoo9wGU-0dLU9JV4PjBPVNYGLBiZG1BpQhHqi_jmqpP5sRFNPhGb
Full disclosure, I don't know MJ, but this looks like a great product.
Good luck
Plenty of good advice already. For me, it was a matter of doing them over and over to refine my technique. They come out decent now (not perfect and still room for improvement. To this day, I always start with the less visible ones which helps me warm up when I get to the more visible ones.
"I have been working on learning to cut dovetails, old sharp Buck Brothers chisels and new to me, used Lie-Nielsen saws. I started with a $14 saw. I included a pic of progress, I have made six now and starting on the seventh. I switched saws on #5 and it shows. The only way to learn to make dovetails is to make dovetails, but ask questions.
I started with Pine, switched to Poplar now trying White Oak. I just finished cutting these and need to fine tune the fit now, the second picture. I have some paring to do and wondering how to mark the wood or something to know what to pare when I lift it. I seem to forget quickly and you can mess the pins up fast. Is there a process or method at this step? I want to make the tote in the latest issue of FWW. Thanks."
Kurt, Rule #1 - only "adjust" the pin and never the tail.
If the fit is close enough to go together slightly, scribble the sides of the tails with a pencil, and remove the transferred mark on the pins. You have a choice of tools here: paring chisel, rasp or file. If a file, grind the edges to make them "safe". Only remove a smidgeon at a time, retest the fit, scribble some move, pare, etc.
The advantage of transferring tails to pins with a knife is that you leave behind knife boundary marks. These are thin and easier to see. Pare to these lines.
Your aim, as you improve, is to saw to the line. Leaving lines and paring later is going to leave you open to mistakes. Develop a go-for-it attitude. That is how you improve.
A couple of articles I wrote on dovetails:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Great stuff, Thanks!
In an earlier time when I transferred marks from one side to the other (I was pins-first at the time) the inevitable errors required the fiddling you face now.
My approach was a red and a green pencil. In your photo, which I altered below I've marked the pins for what in my mind was "stop & go". Green meant the parts did not interfere with fit. Red meant they did. As I pared the red marks came off and green was added. I marked them on the faces to be either saved or shaved.
Once the pins all made it into the sockets but still bound up inside I would mount the tail board sticking up out of my face vise and wiggle in the pinboard side to side. The current stopping point is the center of the wiggle where the boards seem fixed. Red & green again for that pin, wiggle again, repeat.
Smudging the sockets with a pencil and chasing the marks also works, but is messier. My current system avoids the whole thing pretty effectively. (Thanks for the plug @ rclark5!)
Lastly... get yourself a thinner pencil!
MJ, this is the kind methodology I was looking for, I can't wait to try it. It was remembering the location to pare that I was missing and this solves it. That was a .09 pencil, I have a .03 but I need harder lead. I also need a better knife, mine has a wood handle and a short blade, easy stuff to fix. Thanks!
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I’ll also add that what I find to be gappy, tends to be less so once glued, sanded, and wiped with some finish. I always strive for perfect but am fine with good enough.
Nice to know, I'll make a few more and glue.
Seems like you've gotten a good start into hand cut dovetails, nice going!
When I started, I marked out and cut about 60 sets in poplar and walnut (for contrast). Some good, some not so good, but progress. Then I took Rob Cosman's dovetail class, nice guy, good teacher, helpful class. Then I cut a bunch more.
Now they come out pretty good.
Practice sawing to a line with a dovetail saw - just mark out a bunch of parallel lines on your desired angle, maybe 1/2 inch apart, marked front and back, and saw them all. Check the back to see how close to your line you are. Then saw another set in between all those. Then saw some angled the other direction, and some straight up and down.
The straighter and more accurately you can saw, the better the dovetails come out.
Practice makes perfect, or perfect practice makes perfect as they say.
Have fun !
That's funny, I have been watching Cosmon for a couple of weeks. He is big on practice and he is good . I just started #8 but I see progress and I know quickly when I make a mistake. I'll cut some of those lines, like jumping jacks. I found a well loved Lie-Nielson dovetail and crosscut saw, I have no excuse not to practice. I also have a bunch of walnut, that contrast is a good idea. Thanks for sharing!
I learned to make dovetails by watching some videos produced by David Barron and using his dovetail guide. I think it works very well but does not produce perfect results without practice and a good sawing technique. I use a Japanese saw.
Back in February I fell off of a ladder and broke both of my wrists. I was in a cast for about 8 weeks and still have some weakness in my left wrist. Consequently I am currently cutting a lot of practice dovetails to get my strength and technique back.
Is that the guide on the far left of your bench? I have been looking at a 14 & 90 degree guide from Veritas. It looks like it helps eliminate drift which can happen easily. What do you think of this one?
I'm very happy with it. I don't have to "draw" the angled lines for the tails or pins because of the guide which saves me time and effort. Like I mentioned in my post, it's not really automatic, it does take some skill and practice.
Those practice pieces look pretty good from here. Good luck to you on your next dovetailed project.
Thank you bluemo!
You're welcome to come by my shop for a closer inspection the next time you're in Atlanta!