I lost three finger tips on my bandsaw last week…
But I now have enough compensation for a planer, thicknesser, routertable, extraction facility, and a full canteen for visitors!!!!!
Not bad eh!!!!
Now you can say that comment is sick?
But in the UK we get that Yankee Workshop guy on sky TV…….
he shows us how to use machines with unprotected cutters, and incorrect proceedures for working wood.( particularly when using the table saw)
How come they get away with showing BAD PRACTICES in the US?
Replies
Norm *always* starts out a show talking about shop safety. I think the practices you're referring to are done to make it easier for the viewer to see what is going on.
I can tell you that it's such a pain with an American table saw that most of us use them without the guards.
John
Yes, Norm may say he removed the blade guard from the table saw so we can see better, but that doesn't explain why he also has the splitter off? I've e-mailed hm several times asking about not having a splitter and I never got a response.
On most American saws, the splitter and guard and one unit. The guard comes off, the splitter comes off. It's like that on my Jet cabinet saw, and I've never used the guard ... which is something I'm somewhat unhappy about. I may get a retrofit splitter and a better guard (Euro style), but haven't yet done so.
I've seen articles about how to put a shop made splitter into a zero clearance insert. That's probably a more practical solution for most American woodworkers. Pretty quick and pretty easy to do. Now that I've brought that thought to mind, I'll put it on my priority list.
John
So. . . what caused the incident? I'm still learning how to use the bandsaw, and had the impression it was a fairly safe tool. What happened?
I tend to think of the bandsaw as a relatively safe tool also, but that's with the precautions of having the blade guard within 1/2" of the stock, and always being conscious of where my fingers are in relationship to the blade. It's too easy to get focused on the line to be followed and lose track of where the fingers are headed. Also, when getting within a half-inch of exiting a cut, I always move my fingers safely away from the exit point in case the blade exits suddenly.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Jamie -
With regard to finger/hand position when using the band saw;
Tage Frid, in his book on joinery, says *never* have your fingers in front of the blade. Considering how old he is and that he still has all his fingers, I go by that rule (grin). It's amazing how, sometimes, the blade can 'pop' out of the material at the end of the cut.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I always have my fingers behind the band saw blade.......
I have the marks on my chin where I push the wood through......
The point I am making is about Norm and his safety, and the lack of safety standards on US machines in general compared to Europe.........
Ps My nose has had a couple of close shaves!
Ok I get it
the point was not that I had lost fingers but that Norm's show does not make safety top priority!!!
Sorry to hear about your lost, but good luck with your new tools just don't cut off anything else.
Good luck and happy holidays.
Rickl
strongbo1
Norm knows his shop! Every show Starts: "Be sure to read and understand your power tools!" I lost a thumb years ago on a table saw, "If you "push your luck"..."you will get BIT!" Norm's gaurds are removed for audience viewing purposes only! A small lapse in concentration can cause any loss of a digit! For all the Norm "bashers"...He has a huge following plus taught many people woodworking, not to mention...He is an EXCELLENT Carpenter! I hope your fingers feel better, if you don't like Norm turn the channel!
Framer
Hi Framer:
I'm willing to bet that Norm never uses a splitter and blade guard. Those of us who learned woodworking in the 50's and 60's were taught by people who didn't believe they were anything but a waste of time. This is not a criticism of Norm. He is merely practicing woodworking as he was taught.
Be safe,
Dennis
This seems to be a good topic of debate.....
Well there is more.........
Here in the UK I just saw my first sky showing of, WORKSHOP CHALLENGE....yep woodworking against the clock!!!!!!
I just do not believe what you guys allow on your TV.
Safety was not in it.....
Two old dears trying to drill holes with a drill, holding the wood in one hand and electric drill in the other.
The camera zoomed in, but were out of luck she did not slip and send the drill bit through her hand this time.
But I am sure they will catch it next time.
Tune into this one to see fingers, legs and arms amputated,live on air.
( you may have to adjust the colour as there is lots of blood in this production)
What a stupid and down right irrisponsible program.....joinery using machines against the clock, will end up with casualties.
Less than an hour ago I was trimming a board on my jet cabinet saw without the guard in place. Even as I was beginning the cut I was thinking I should have the guard in place. Just as the board was about to clear the blade it shifted and I just had time to duck. I'm done for the evening and fortunately I am using all my fingers to type this. Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience with us. I hope your fingers heal without too much damage. I will learn from this and using everyones advice I will be changing my method of using the bandsaw. Enjoy your new equipment!
"That little voice" preceding an accident seems to be a common thread in many incident reports. Along with working late & tired. We really need to learn to listen.
I know, our wives have been telling us that for years. <G>
My own recent experience was jointing tapers on the inside of some S curved legs. Had stop blocks set up to control cuts & thought I was being very careful. One of the pieces 'kicked' & my left hand went accross the top of the cutter head. The net result was three shallow cuts on pinkie & ring finger. Took three bandaids to cover the wounds. That was enough for one night so after closing up shop and settling into an easy chair with the first drink of the day, it hit me that I couldn't believe I still had all my fingers. I guess SHE must have been watching over me.
Merry Christmas all & please continue to work safe,
Paul
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your fingers. Looks as though you've kept your sense of humour though.
For what it's worth and following on from others' comments, my training (cabinetmaking) was/is:
1) NEVER put any part of your body on the RHS of the blade, as it is safe 99 times out of 100 if the blade breaks, the other one time the blade will come out of the saw and shoot off to the right hand side of the saw table.
2) Fingers no closer than 100mm/4" to the saw blade. No exceptions. Use pushsticks or coping saw if you can't do this.
3) Never push with your hand in a straight line towards the blade, always position your hands so that if (when) you slip, your hand will not hit the blade. As well, always stay balanced on your feet - don't rely on your work for support (don't laugh, I teach schoolkids now and it happens more often than I like)
4) Always keep the table clean of dust and chips, as well as the floor swept clean of dust where you stand to avoid slippery surfaces as well as good housekeeping.
5) Where possible, push work into the blade with your fingertips while the 'heel' of your palm is pressed firmly onto the table and motionless. I don't know if the term 'heel of the palm' is a local terminology here, so I'm talking about the opposite end of your palm to your fingertips, the bit closest to your wrist.
6) (more commonsense than precaution here) Never lean across the table. Ever. As well, stop the blade to remove the small chips that may jam in the table mouth.
As well and above all, trust that "inner voice". If you don't feel comfortable doing something, don't do it.
Cheers, eddie
edit: missed an important one - blade guard no more than 1/2" above the workpiece, preferably less, with just enough room so that you can see the cut
Edited 12/22/2002 5:05:21 PM ET by eddie (aust)
Strong,
Many guards just simply don't work. REmember this simple fact,THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT YOUR FINGERS IS TO USE YOUR HEAD!!!!!!
Mark
Strong, the three way safety devices that most U.S. saws come with are garbage. If for instance, one should change to a thin kerf blade, the splitter becomes impossible to align. Most folks remove them altogether because they feel safer working smart rather than letting some very poorly designed device try to do your thinking for you.
It has been my experience that I can work as well and as safe without the poor U.S. excuses for guards, et al.
Work smart, work safe and just when you think you know it all, think twice, cuz you don't know nuttin.
I always got a kick out of the warning that says to never stand behind a table saw. So what should I do, secure the wood and pull the saw!
O.K. Folks, yell at me if you want. My only response is that if you make me a safety device that works, I will stand on a soap box and preach its use. The stop saw is the only safety device that makes any sense to me at all.
Edited 12/23/2002 12:01:40 AM ET by no one
Why does the US keep getting slammed for our unsafe TS guards. I haven't seen anything imported that's any better. The major safety factor is the operator, most so call accidents are human error. It ain't the machine fault or the manufacture of the machine, unless you are a lawyer. I've worked around machinery all my adult life and I haven't see an accident yet caused by the equipment.
God Bless and Merry Christmas
From Baytown Texas
les
The reason the U.S. gaurds get slammed all the time is that hey stink. The reason most folks don't see Euro style guards is because most machines imported into the U.S. comply with OSHA requirments and have U.S. style guards on them.
The guard assembly on a Euro tablesaw, for example, usually includes a riving knife (what we call a splitter). This riving knife sits very close to the blade at all levels and follows the blade up and down and tilting. That alone is a major improvement over U.S. splitters. We are taught to keep the blade as low as possible, which keeps the blade further from the splitter, which makes for more kickback possibility.
The guard that goes with the riving knife is VERY easy to remove is necessary. Mine takes about 5 seconds. But, there is little reason to take the guard off since it is small, clear and hooked up to dust collection.
Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now. Have a great holiday.
Scott
I'll would love to see what a Euro style guard looks like. I'm not crazy about my current set-up or what's available in the US. Any suggestions on websites or manufacturers so that I may look at pictures.
Thanks and dhappy holidays,
Rickl
Try looking at this discussion:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=8048.1
One that was going on when I found this site. I found it quite interesting, first time I ever heard of a riving knife. I believe there were some pictures w/ some of the posts, and even some links to websites, but could be wrong on the links.
I still intend to build me an overarm blade gaurd, got a closet to build first though.
Later
Bill
Thanks for the link Bill very helpful.
Rickl
Its the fault of the guard if you get injured for the same reason a weekend warrior needs an industrial grade machine. Machine dominance versus operator dominance.
Safety is a worthwhile fixation, but is much more effective when based on the operator instead of the machine.
Let's see if I understand this. You live in the UK (the great Nanny-State) where woodworking machines allegedly are safer because of the Euro-style machine guards - and you cut 3 fingers off? On perhaps the most benign large power tool in the shop - a bandsaw? And then YOU want to complain about what Norm does on his show? Have you thought about suing yourself yet for negligence?
While US machine guards are far from perfect, using common sense is superior to any machine guard. I can't tell you how many times I've had to say to myself, "just slow down and do the setup correctly so it's safe." I always try to take the time to pre-visualize a cut or procedure before attempting it. The more complicated the cut, the longer the pondering time. I use feather boards (often in multiples), jigs/fixtures, fences, and push sticks - and never, ever get my fingers close to anything made out of steel that's sharp and rotating.
No fingers lost....
it was to point out the lack of safety issues on your tv progs we get via sky over here.
Norms.......yankee workshop for instance...
and better still how can they let,
SHOP WORK CHALLENGE where contestants use power tools etc against the clock, be approved in the USA for evening viewing.
They put the public in danger.......
hey don't nanny state it pal..........
we helped your boys out in the last sadhm conflict and now we look like we will be helping you in north Korea...........
Mother state is more appropriate for our colonists!!!
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