Replies

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 28, 2003 08:09am | #1

   Tzvi

      I will let the wood-finish whizzes answer this tomorrow when they wake, but you should add a post and mention what the humidity was like, did you do anything to the sealer after applying and what Mini-Wax final finish was used. This will be the first thing they ask.

   Good luck...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   jazzdogg | Nov 28, 2003 08:44am | #2

   Tzvi,

   In addition to Sarge's reommendations, you might be able to "back into" an answer by considering the following questions.

   Were both products compatible (both water-based or oil-based)? What was the top coat? water-based? Varnish? Urethane? How long did you give the pre-stain conditioner to cure before applying the film finish? Can you describe the look and feel of the conditioner before you applied the top coat? Have you applied the top coat, by itself, to a sample piece to determine if it cures properly on its own? How dry was the wood before you started finishing?

   Please let us know what you find out,
   Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
1. 
   Tzvi | Nov 28, 2003 07:50pm | #3

   Ok, I"ll try and fill in some details.  Thanks for the questions.   The day was sunny, and I only started to work on the finishing  in the afternoon when it felt dryer as the day warmed up. Rain definately was not in the air, though I do like to finish things when the humidity is lower than it probably was.  Since the miniwax was a new can I didn't put in a japan drier which I might have usually,  also it was my first time using the pre stain wood conditioner and I also thought about compatability issues.  The wood conditoner and wood finish were both Minwax brand/ oil based (cleanup recommended MIneral spirits). I followed directons on the can which said to wipe on wood conditioner and wipe off within  5-15 minutes then I put the finish on.  It was definitly Humid at night outside but I figured with at least 2 hours of day light  it should have gotten the drying off to a good start.  I did check the job before I went to sleep and It already seemed to me as something was wrong but I didn't want to take it into the house because of the finishing smell and excess handling.  I have not tried the top coat by itself to see if it cures properly since we have had mostly rainny or damp days since.  The wood may also not have been 100% dry as we have had muggy days for quite awhile.  As I read what I have written I wonder if I should have known better, and am thinking what were my choices to get it done right.  I don't have a heated shop and the bookcases were there for a while before I started to do the refinishing,  I felt I needed the room to start the next project and the first nice sunny and warm day did the finishing outside.  I have done finishing like this in tropical climates but just made sure to use drier in the mix, somthing I didn't do now.

   Tzvi

1. 
   Gretchen | Nov 29, 2003 02:07am | #4

   Did you stir your finish well before applying?Gretchen

2. 
   SgianDubh | Nov 29, 2003 02:44am | #5

   Tzvi, the oil based Minwax products you described, including the proprietary stain conditioner can all be safely mixed or diluted with their solvent, i.e., white (mineral) spirits, and brushes, etc., cleaned with mineral spirits. Oil based Minwax stains, as I recall, contain an element of film finish, i.e., varnish.

   The stain conditioner is (as I understand it) essentially mineral spirits intended to rather choke any open or porous grain to be found in notorious blotchers, such as maple or cherry where the grain dips in and out of the surface.

   Anyway, in your more detailed description of your methodology you didn't mention that you'd wiped off the stain with a clean dry cloth some 5 to 15 minutes after you applied it as instructed on the can. Did you?

   If not, you may have left a residue too thick to dry as intended, and the lack of satisfactory drying may have been exacerbated by humid conditions. You might try using a fine nylon abrasive pad dipped into mineral spirits to even out and wash off the stain followed by wiping down with dry rags to get it to dry thoroughly. Lastly, reapply stain to get back to the colour you're after.

   You can reduce the intensity of the stain effect by diluting the properly stirred original solution with mineral spirits as I mentioned earlier. You can also mix colours from different cans to get your preferred colour, and lastly you can add universal tinting colours (UTC's) or compatible oil or alchohol dyes to modify the stain as supplied by the manufacturer. Slainte..  

   Website

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 29, 2003 06:29pm | #6

   I still am not clear on your process. Did you apply a Minwax stain after the conditioner? If so, did you allow the stain to fully dry (24 hours, at least) before applying a top coat? What top coat did you use?

   Excessive humidity can significantly extend drying time. This is particularly true if you did not let the intermediate coats fully dry.

   At this point, as long as your materials were fresh and compatable, the finish should eventually dry. Get it into an area with reduced humidity and a temperature above 65 degrees.

1. 
   Tzvi | Nov 30, 2003 02:47am | #7

   Hi: Thanks for the responses.

   For the last few days my project has been moved into a dry attic area, and now seems to be quite dry.  I will be leaving it there a few more days to make sure.  I still would like to answer some of your questions though.  Yes. I had wiped off the stain as neccessary before puting it on the covered porch to dry, and there was only a very thin coating left on, and normally it would have/should have, Dried.  

    Also as to the question what was the final coat?  So far there hasn't been one, because it wasn't dry enough for even a second coat of stain.  

   My gut feeling now, because of your responses and the project Finally drying up, is that the Humidity was just to high and I should have use the regular japan dryer even with the fresh cans, and I also should have found drier place to store it while it dried.

   Thanks, Tzvi

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 30, 2003 04:42am | #8

   I agree, humidity can play havoc with finishes. It's best to postpone finihing when the relative humidity exceeds 80%.

2. 
   UncleDunc | Nov 30, 2003 05:51am | #9

   I maintain that it's best to sell the house and move somewhere else when the relative humidity exceeds 80%.