i built my first kitchen table. it is made of sapelle and the design is very simple, rustic.
someone recommended danish oil for a finish, but I am worried that it will protect the wood from hot, cold, and liquids.
is there a good finish that will keep it natural looking and not too shiny?
best,
gstarza
Replies
gstarza,
No finish is bulletproof. If you use trivets for hot dishes and clean up spills without excessive delay an oil/varnish mix (danish oil) will be fine. If you don't want to pay $20 a quart for linseed oil mixed with varnish, you can make your own for considerably less money.
Rob
Use the Danish oil and then top it with a wipe on varnish (non-poly) for a more durable finish. With any finish you will need to use care in wiping up spills, and use trivets for hot things.
glastarza,
I'd like to recomend something that you've been eating all of your life.
now this might shock you but hold on,
Shellac!
Yeh it's on most pills and candy you eat so it's plenty safe..
plus it's really easy to apply and fast.. two hours after you start you can set dishes on it.. Much of that time you'll be standing back and admiring it..
I know water spills etc..
Well what about them? once shellac dry's completely (about 30 days) You can spill water and leave it for an hour or more.. Nothing will happen..
If Your kids drag their fork across it and scratch it you can fix that in 30 seconds or less.. an invisable repair.
Shellac isn't expensive and it's so easy a cave man can do it (you're not a cave man are you ? <grin>)
Ask I'll give you full details.
French,
Thanks for the help. I'm gonna run some tests on the wood this weekend and see what works. Shellac will be one of the finishes i try.best,
starza
Remember, none of them will hold up very well until they are cured. With shellac and most varnishes, this means about a month or so.I agree with Frenchy, though (Frenchy is going to faint, because nobody ever agrees with him). Shellac is a good choice. I just made some kitchen counters and had to top-coat with a very tough varnish, because of the cleaning solutions, boiling water and the like -- but for a table, shellac is fine.Joe
When you do your test of the shellac, be sure to put a wet glass on it and leave it for a half hour. Also a hot dish. You can simulate that with an iron on low. Do put some foil around the sole plate of the iron, if you do that.Gretchen
Gretchen
I'm courious, have you ever tested shellac this way yourself? The reason I ask is I've had pools of water on shellac for hours and it never turned white..* Oh I know if I leave a sweating glass on shellac overnight it will have a white ring. But then the repair is easy.. dust free and absolutely invisable..
Unlike other finishes which if you melt or burn them require sanding off completely in order to achieve an invisable repair..
* As I've said, it does take 30 days to dry to the degree where water can stand on it for a while.
Frenchy, believe me, I have seen and seen your posts. I have been accused of being a "one trick pony" as far as wipe on non-poly varnish, and have even stopped saying I use spar varnish for this because I'm tired of saying how well it works.
BUT exactly what I said. Put a glass on the finish and see what happens. This is a much more usual home happening than a pool of water. I do know from aa published expert that indeed, shellac (unwaxed) will withstand pooled water. It isn't the same thing as a glass or a hot casserole. My varnish will withstand both of these.
And you are correct. the repair of shellac is very easy.Gretchen
gretchen
I know I sound like a one trick pony but I have relatively little else I can offer to this group. I'm not as skilled or dedicated as most here seem. I do use spar varnish myself a great deal but I don't know what I could offer new on that subject. Where required it's my finish of choice. I use epiphanes according to the instructions on the can. I mean what can I say?
Most other finishes are a major disapointment to me.. My carefully crafted grandfather clock had an oil finish on it and now years later it's a major disappointment to me even if it looked wonderful when new..
So many here write and display wonderfully crafted projects while I mearly grind out some 4 inch by 4 inch mortice pocket or make the corresponding tenion.. now granted I've done that more in the past six years than most have but what sort of interest is that?
Gee I milled another 1000 bd. ft, of flooring or fabricated yet another raised panel..
Only countless more to go..
Yes. Spar varnish will withstand as you claim,, however it's trade off is difficulty in repair of the inevitable..
gstarza,
Please don't use shellac for your kitchen table. There really is value to the statement, "the best material for the job." Shellac is NOT the material to use for such an application.
I have been using shellac for a very long time and I absolutely love it. I could go on for hours, describing the ways that it is the most beautiful finishing substance, etc. But not for a kitchen table.
For a kitchen table, use lacquer or varnish. Since you're asking this question, I'm going to assume you have little or no experience with lacquer, and the usual spray equipment needed.
So the choice is varnish, which is probably the best over-all choice, anyway. Kitchen tables tend to take the most abuse of any furniture in the home. Their finishes have to withstand abrasion, various chemicals and liquids, heat. Varnish is the only finish with the durability for that kind of use.
Almost ANY varnish is going to be better than any other finish here. But don't use spar varnish. Spar never truly hardens. It is designed to stay flexible for use in outdoor marine environments.
The best varnish choice for this application is Behlens Rock Hard. As its name implies, it cures to a very hard, durable, lasting surface. It was designed for bar tops and table tops. It's a very beautiful finish. There is no reason not to want a "shiny" surface, but if that's something you want to change, wait until it has cured for about a month and rub it out with 4-0 steel wool to a nice satin sheen.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=751
Rich
Edited 3/22/2008 2:09 pm ET by Rich14
I agree with Rich completely. I, too love shellac, mix my own from flakes, do cool stuff with it, etc., but on the kitchen counters I am just finishing, I am using three coats of Behlens Rock Hard over the shellac that I used for color and to fill the grain. I am just about to rub out the Rock Hard to a satin finish. I used three coats so as to have less chance of rubbing through in the final steps -- because I really need the film for protection.I used this at the advice of Peter Gedrys, the pro finisher in the Experts section of this site. The choice was made on the basis of overall hardness and durability, along with very good resistance to hot liquids, cleaning chemicals, and alcohol. Frankly, I liked the shellac finish better before I applied the Rock Hard, but I wouldn't have liked it for very long.Joe
Edited 3/22/2008 10:12 pm ET by Joe Sullivan
I will just comment (one more time) about using spar varnish for projects like this. There is a plus side to the "never really hardens/stays flexible" (supposed ) property. It doesn't chip either. So little ones can run into my 18th century blanket chest with their trike, or play with legos and blocks on the table, and it doesn't chip. It might dent.
It is an excellent wipe on varnish and gives a wonderful long lasting highly resistant to damage finish.Gretchen
I've never had any chipping problem with varnish, including the Behlen Rock Hard which has certainly taken a few blows that have dented the wood. I have seen some polyurethane varnishes peel, but that was because they were applied over bad substrates. Chipping happens with really brittle finishes like lacquer, or with enamels where heavy pigments affect the adhesion, I think.
Gretchen,I agree with Steve. I've never had a chipping problem with (non-spar) varnish. (But I HAVE had shellac chip) So, to me, the argument to use spar varnish for its chipping resistance doesn't make too much sense.But here's something else to consider. To me, spar varnish comes in cans labeled with brand names like Epiphanes, Interlux, Sikkens. Those are usually sold only in marine supply stores and they are actually intended for use on brightwork (wood trim) of boats. Their manufacturers don't expect them to be used in non-marine furniture finishing processes. They are seriously expensive and they are seldom (if ever) used by furniture makers.I haven't used any spar varnish (marine) since I sold my 36' sloop many years ago. (I experienced a sailor's 2 happiest days - the day he buys and the day he sells his boat). But when I was still using it, I can tell you, the "cured" spar varnish surface of my teak trim didn't take to any kind of rubbing out. THAT was spar varnish. A month after applying marine spar, you can leave a mark (just barely) if you push very, very hard with a thumbnail. That's soft for a cured finish. But boy, did it resist the elements. You can push hard enough to break your thumb trying to do that with Behlen Rock Hard and not leave a mark.Spar varnish is chemically referred to as a "long oil" product. The chains of oil polymers are longer than the chains in so-called "short" varnishes which are the harder varieties.I see lots of varnish on shelves of Big Box stores and hardware stores labeled "spar varnish." No manufacturer ever reveals the proprietary information about these brews, but the stuff in those cans doesn't begin to compare to the real Marine Varnishes in terms of UV resistance, so we know that those brands have less UV inhibitors than the marine types.I believe those spar varnishes also cure harder than marine types (are actually "short" varnishes) and that's why people say they can be leveled and rubbed out. Meaning that the stuff being called "spar" is actually fairly hard stuff, very different than anything that should have the term "spar varnish" applied to it.I'm also not one to argue with someone else's experiences. If you say you have finished tables with spar varnish, and the result looks good, and it is durable for the uses you have and it was easy to apply and met with all the expectations you had, GREAT. Keep doing it! The best we can do here is say to others, "Here's my experience. Repeat my methods and you may get the same result."Rich
Edited 3/23/2008 5:20 pm ET by Rich14
Real paint store MacCloskey spar varnish (NON POLY). As I said, I have stopped even posting it because it makes people spend too much time refuting it. The formula AND the idea of wiping it on came from an old refinishing book from the 50's and I have used it for refinishing since that time. I don't mind it being "such a bad finish to use" (!), and won't trouble anyone with it any more.
Great. As you say, this IS my experience and it DOES work well.
Gretchen
Edited 3/23/2008 7:31 pm ET by Gretchen
I used tung oil on my antique cherry table 20 years ago and its as good as the day I put it on. We use the table everyday.
I have a cherry counter in my kitchen that I finished with oil. I recoat it about every year or so. It takes about 10 minutes to apply and 30 minutes to dry. I use a mineral oil sold for cutting boards & salad bowls that I pick up at the hardware store. It soaks in instead of drying. (Danish oil has dryers and may not be food safe -- you might wanna check.) IMHO, it's a perfect finish for a kitchen table, especially a "rustic" one. I can knead dough on it, roll out pie crust, cut on it, pound on it, clean it up with scrubbies or steel wool, and generally abuse it with abandon. It just looks better and better as it accumulates it's "history".
A kitchen table is no place for a showroom finish -- you want something you can use and abuse and not worry about it. Putting varnish or shellac on a real kitchen table is like french polishing your workbench. It ain't "honest". (Or practical.) Just my $.02.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
PS to Frenchy: I love shellac as much as the next guy -- maybe more. But it's not so good for a kitchen table that'll be a frequent resting place for hot pans and dishes. It'll melt like ice cream on a hot pavement. Sure, it's easy to fix when that happens, but that would be pretty much every day at my house. ;-)
Right on.
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