Replies

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 24, 2007 08:17pm | #1

   Jatoba is a very hard wood that is difficult to work with hand tools.

   Howie.........
2. 
   sapwood | Nov 24, 2007 09:07pm | #2

   Not having the time or patience to deal with difficult woods, such as Jatoba, with handplanes, I turn to my trusty random orbit sander. This is the method I used on a coffee table a few years ago. I then applied about six coats of a oil/varnish type finish. It still looked great when I saw it at the client's house the other day.

   The wood did take to the router well. I did a lot of work on the edges. I climb cut most of the time when doing this..... that helps keep things neat.

   I don't remember the vomit smell.

3. 
   user-83153 | Nov 24, 2007 09:07pm | #3

   I'm not sure what irregularities are remaining so it is hard to answer that question.

   If you are worried about oil contaminating your finish you should use a sealer coat of shellac before proceeding with any other finish. I have never worked with Jotoba and don't know much about its properties, but if you look at my second post in the thread about cocobolo you can see my opinion on using shellac. It isn't going to hurt anything and it may become one of your favorite finishes.

   I would seriously consider it as the only finish for this project. If you are worried about it being fragile that is a myth. I walked in the room on thanksgiving to see my 9 month old nephew using a sofa table I just finished in shellac 2 weeks ago to hold himself up, while he held a spoon with the pointed end down, in his hand. Of course he had repeatedly scratched that end of the spoon on the table and gave it a few good drum beats with it for good measure. You couldn't tell he had done anything, not a scratch. Just wipe up any alcohol that gets spilled on it and keep ammonia window cleaners away from it and it will look great for a long time.

   Rob

4. 
   WillGeorge | Nov 24, 2007 09:31pm | #4

   I work with Jatoba all the time. In fact it is my favorite wood to work with. I usually work with Ash, Hickory, Purpleheart, Jatoba and Santos Mahogany. Sometimes Oak.

   Like any wood, it has it's faults but I have never had any smell that is offensive from it. You need to use carbide tools because it is very hard and like you stated the grain can give you problems because of it's interlocking grain. I find that is can sometimes 'shatter' (like Purpleheart) when cutting with a router if you take deep cuts. (I never do that if I'm thinking at the time!). I rarely use hand tools except for chisels and scrapers and a block plane. So I guess I'm not a real woodworker.

   I have never used any finish on it except Tung Oil and wipe-on Poly.

   It always finishes very nicely. Maybe that is why I like using it because it is very easy to finish. Frankly I find finishing a project.. Well, a bummer!

   See this link about Jatoba.
   http://www.exotichardwoods-southamerica.com/jatobabraziliancherry.htm

   http://www.thewoodbox.com/data/wood/jatobainfo.htm

   However, the color of the wood shown at the first link is nothing like the tipical color I usuall get. (Usually a dark or light brown like in the second link) The Jatoba I see at my supplier has quite a bit of color variances and very different grain patterns. I have asked and the folks there tell me that the majority of their wood comes from the same tree. But, is picked through so he who comes first with the most money gets the best! LOL...

   See this link about the smell of vomit in wood.

   http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Bacterial_Action_in_Wood.html

   What is stated there seems reasonable to me but I just cut wood.. I know little else about it.

   EDIT:
   In fact I receiently posted some pictures of a baby changing table made of Jatoba and Purpleheart. Mostly Jatoba. 'Real' sticks of Jatoba and Jatoba Plywood. The Purpleheart gave me fits but the Jatoba was like a good friend...

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/24/2007 1:39 pm by WillGeorge

1. 
   woodshaves | Nov 24, 2007 10:54pm | #5

   Keep working with it and eventually you get a variety that smells like vomit. The one in the north part of Puerto Rico (locally called algarrobo) does, if you smell the fruit, is terrible (and some people eat it !). My advise, after encounters with it, is to seal all surfaces with shellac, the smell is persistent.

1. 
   rog | Nov 24, 2007 11:48pm | #6

   Hi All

   Thanks for the advice. Glad to see it wasn't my imagination about the smell. So could I use an oil and then the shellac or just the shellac and then the wipe on poly.

   I want a rich red color as I am trying to match the jotoba floors already in place.

   Thanks

   Roger

1. 
   woodshaves | Nov 25, 2007 02:43am | #8

   Since you want a match, oil finish will darken the natural color, a test for color is in order. If your oil test is too dark, then is shellac followed by varnish. If the oil test is the color you want, then is oil (you may try linseed oil alone for darkening, do not need Watco) for color, shellac to seal, varnish on top (but you may like the finish with the shellac alone on top of the oil).

1. 
   rog | Nov 25, 2007 05:11am | #9

   Hi

   This is a great source of info. So I will take 2 pieces of scrap. One with oil the other with shellac. From what I can see now, the wood won't need darkening so I will probably end up using only the shellac.

   I am going to get a Random orbit sander tomorrow. What grade of paper should I sand to prior to shellac or oil. and what should I do between coats.

   Thanks

   Roger

2. 
   woodshaves | Nov 25, 2007 09:24am | #10

   Random orbital sander review from FWW, Vol.185, pages 46-49, Best Value and Best Overall, Bosch 1295DVS, only $70. There are probable more recent reviews.

   Sandpaper comes in three different grading classes, the CAMI (Coated Abrasive Manufacturers Institute scale, part of the ANSI or American National Standards Institute), the FEPA (French European scale) that is the European standard, identified with a "P" before the number and the system used in the Pacific or JIS (Japan Instituteof Standards). The available for us are CAMI and FEPA that are roughly the same until the grit is above 220, this makes a difference when someone gives advise on grit. It is difficult to say at what grit for you to start since it depends on the surface as it is now. I may estimate you need to start with a 100 grit (questionable if 80 grit), follow by 150, 180 and last 220 (some may advise up to 320 standard or P400 FEPA). Doing a good job on sanding, if you padd the shellac (do not brush), there is no need to sand between coats. Let the weight of the sander do the sanding, when finished, do a last sanding by hand with the last grit. Clean and then wet the surface with alcohol or thinner to see if all the round marks of the ROS are gone. There are different variations as how to do the shellac padding, if you need advise, many in this forum can help, I have my own system.

    

3. 
   rog | Nov 25, 2007 04:26pm | #11

   Woodshaves

   This is great info. Thank you very much. I have some shellac that I made from flakes about a year ago. It is in a mason jar in my shop and looks fine(no sediment)

   Will the shellac serve to fill the pores? And if you could please share your padding method with me.

   Thanks again

   Roger

4. 
   user-83153 | Nov 25, 2007 07:34pm | #13

   Shellac will fill the pores if you apply several coats and sand them flat in between each coat.

   If your shellac is a year old you should test it to see if it is still good. Apply some to a test piece and let it dry for 15 minutes. If it is completely dry you are good to go, if it isn't then it's no good.

   Here is a link to a site that will tell you all you need to know about shellac and its various application methods...

   http://johnjacobmickley.net/Shop%20Pages/Finishing%20Frame.htm

   Steve Mickley (the author of the site) has forgotten more about the application of shellac than most of us will ever know.

   I strongly encourage you to do a test panel with shellac only and another with shellac and poly and see which one looks better to your eye. I'm betting on the shellac.

                  Rob

5. 
   woodshaves | Nov 25, 2007 09:33pm | #15

   Please follow all the advise on the subsequent posts and read about the application as suggested, it will help to get a better concept on application, then practice on a scrap.

   Edit: It is incorrect "subsequent" change to "above" posts. If you are not convinced on the methods you read, I give you mine. The reason I want you to look into them is because you may like to adapt from various methods. If you use it to seal the pores, a CAMI 320 may be a reasonable choice to level each coat. Sand down to wood again after each application, you want shellac inside the pores only for a final padding. The reason behind this is that a shellac finish looks good when it is a very, very thin coat. Each padded coat disolves the prior one, so only a very flat surface (with or without filled pores) gives great results. Yes it will dissolve the shellac inside the pores but the ball you make to apply it will not remove much, prevented somewhat by the lubricant you used (I recommend linseed oil) to make the shellac flow. The ball you make must be very tight. Plain cotton works perfect, recommendations of other fabrics (such as muslin that is a heavy cotton weave is not required).

   Edited 11/25/2007 6:38 pm ET by woodshaves

6. 
   rog | Nov 26, 2007 04:07am | #16

   hI

   Got the Makita ROS this afternoon and started sanding the table. Doing a couple of test pieces with oil and Shellac. The Shellac is good as it dries quickly.

   How will this shellac finish stand-up to a water mark. This is a coffee table and the finish needs to be bullet proof.

   Thanks

   Roger

7. 
   woodshaves | Nov 26, 2007 05:55am | #17

   Well... shellac is water resistant, more so if prepare from fresh flakes but not as good as an oil varnish. I finished my kitchen table (we use it for all meals every day) with amber shellac long time ago and the finish is in perfect conditions. My wife does not use any alcohol containing product nor ammonia to clean it as both will disolve it. The answer depends on how compulsive are the persons using it. If too much use/abuse then coat on top with an oil varnish (a non-poly over wax containing shellac). You may wipe on a diluted oil varnish to make the application easier, will not take too many coats as it is sealed with shellac. If it's me and I need to varnish on top of the shellac, I apply the shellac by padding because there are no brush marks when I finish on top with varnish.

8. 
   WillGeorge | Nov 26, 2007 03:26pm | #18

   Some info. on shellac you may like to read. Yes, it is from the manufacturer but who else would know better.http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/author/zinsser/shellac.html

2. 
   WillGeorge | Nov 25, 2007 07:15pm | #12

   On your post I went out into my COLD shop and did some scraping on more than several Jatoba sticks I have (which are many). None had a odor that I could detect.. But then again I'm one of the EVIL folks that smokes... SO who knows?

1. 
   woodshaves | Nov 25, 2007 09:25pm | #14

   Is not your nose, there are many varieties sold to us from Brazil that do not have the "vomit fragrancy", but when you encounter one, is so intense that you do not forget. I have been "lucky" to open and smell the pod it produces (a 2 1/2 x 6 inches flat brown pod with several 1 inch seeds covered with a creamy color soft fruit), I almost vomit.

5. 
   user-54856 | Nov 25, 2007 02:01am | #7

   I have used Watco Danish Oil with nice results. It's about as easy a finish as you will find. However, I'd like to here from anyone who has had problems with it.

6. 
   Routerman | Nov 27, 2007 01:22am | #19

   Spray laquer x 3 .