I’ve begun several white oak projects and am just now ready to start finishing. I want to use Danish Oil. However, I need to fill the grain and I’m not sure what to use in conjuncion with the Danish Oil.
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Have you done a search yet? There have been at least 2 or 3 threads in the last couple of months on this. Just think! you could be the first to get search results from the New Knots!! (Best of luck)
Sorry to be abrupt, a customer came in while I was typing. ;-) Are you wanting a "glass finish" or just to seal the grain somewhat? Grain fillers are the way to go for the glass-look. Wetsanding works great for just sealing off the pores some. Especially helpful with a Danish oil, which tends to bleed alot.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 11/17/2005 6:53 pm by forestgirl
Grain filling is a challenge on oak, which has relatively large pores. Probably takes two applications of grain filler such as Behlen's Pore O Pac, with at least 48 hours between coats--more if the finishing area is cool and/or humid. Best to err on the side of letting it cure more than absolutely necessary.
Moreover, in my opinion filled grain is not really compatible with a danish oil finish since with the danish oil you don't want the finish to build up on the surface (because an oil/varnish mix finish is relatively soft). The filler accepts the danish oil differently than the wood, so may be a challenge to get it to look attractive without excessive build up.
The whole rationale for the danish oil finish is for the wood to look like it only has a bit of natural sheen, but not as if it has a finish on the top. Personally I like oak this way. If I do want it to look fully filled--glass like--then I would use shellac or varnish, or other film finish over the pore filler.
OK, what happens if I use dewaxed shellac as my first coat/filler and then follow with a wipe on oil/varnish finish.
I've never used shellac so I'm not sure about it's compatibility, and I know any surface coat material will keep the oil from penetrating, thus offsetting one of the big advantages of a danish oil finish.
Tried to search yesterday for this w/o much luck. Figured I was using the wrong key words or something.
Anyway, no I don't want a glassy or high gloss finish. I like the way oil finishes look. However, I've had several people say I should fill the pores but can't figure out how to do that without negatively affecting the look of an oil finish. I've used oil with wet sanding on other less poreous woods and have been happy with it. When I say oil I'm also including oil/varnish and oil/poly wipe on finishes along with Danish, Tung ect.
I'm just guessing but believe those locals who have given me advice usually use a brushed on varnish or poly and that is why they're so big on pore filling. One of the commercial guys I know is using sprayed catylized finishes which I know almost nothing about.
"However, I've had several people say I should fill the pores...." Did they give you a reason? You might be right about them using varnish or something.
Before going any further I want to point out something obvious, but it gets overlooked fequently: Whatever you end up doing, practice on some scrap before you do the piece.
I'm not even sure you need to fill with white oak, which is much less porous than red oak. Try out a finish on some unfilled scrap and see what you think. If you decide you need to have some filling, I would suggest you use a wetsanding approach. I've used it on red oak and it produces a wonderful finish and solves that irritating "bleeding" problem with Danish oils.
Here's a link to an Old Knots discussion, explaining my technique and others too.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The only reason for filling pores is esthetic. If you like the natural in-the-wood appearance of an oil finish you don't need shellac or anything as a first coat. I think this natural oil finish looks best on oak, unless you go all the way to a full finish with pores sealed and a glassy smooth film finish.
What you do need to do is to check the first coat or two every 15 min. or so in order to wipe off any finish that might surface from pores. Just wipe it off as it occurs and there isn't a problem. If you apply the finish at the end of a day and don't check until the next morning you are likely to find little shiny spots where the finish has surfaced and dried. You have to sand these off--typically with 400 grit lubricated with the finish material.
In my opinion, oil/varnish such as Watco is usually preferable, because of a little more protection, than a pure oil.
Edited 11/18/2005 1:12 pm ET by SteveSchoene
I suspect you mean to address your post to musick.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Well yes, though I tend to think of all posts really being designed for the lurker too as well as the person with a specific question. Sorry if it clogged your in box.
Sorry if I was curt, was really pressed yesterday. There's an advantage to selecting the intended recipient from the list -- or clicking "Reply" to one of his/her posts -- that is, when they look for Unread Messages to Me, your post will show up in the list. It also avoids creating confusion in an aged mind like mine, e.g., "Did I ask that question? Hmmmm, don't remember....." ROFL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
No apology needed.
When using colored Danish Oil what is your preferred technique?
Do you use the colored oil for all coats or just the first one or two and then follow with the uncolored for additional coats?
I don't use the colored Watco very often, but the walnut, as has been mentioned, looks nice to me. (It isa "hybrid" between dye and pigment stain, since the color comes from asphaltum eg. roofing tar.)
Your question is not really one I can answer except to say "it depends". One questions like this there is only one way to determine how many coats of the colored to use, and that is to make a test, applying the finish on a scrap of the same wood. Different woods, even of the same species, absorb stain and oil differently. Just note that most of the darkening will occur on the first coat or two. Subsequent coats are mostly wiped off and are, and should be, very thin. After the first couple of coats you can shift to un-tinted without affecting the look much. If you dry to go darker by letting the Watco build up on the surface you are in for a mess of soft, unattractive coating.
I wouldn't bother filling the pores. To me, Oak is something of a "rustic" wood. Even fine "Mission" style furniture should evoke feelings of an 18th century California mission.
Watco is fine, but I usually see recommendations for one of the Walnut tones. I bought some Watco Oak tone Danish Oil recently, tried it on a piece of scrap WO, and decided it was intended to turn a piece of light-colored wood into something that sorta looked like red oak; I didn't use it. I ended up using their Medium Walnut tone, and I like the way it looks on QSWO.
Danish oil is foolproof and can look great. But I'd encourage you to try "padding" shllac, a la Jeff Jewitt on a piece of scrap. With just a bit of practice, it is quite easy, and looks fantastic, within a hair as good as a French Polish. If you want to highlight the rays in your oak (assuming that it's quartersawn) you can dye (NOT stain; TransTint, for example) the wood, then scuff sand with the finest grit you used to prep the wood; and, if you've chosen an alcohol soluble dye, you can wipe down the dyed surface with a rag dampened in alcohol and the rays will leap out at you. Then you just pad on the shellac, and WOW. Padding technique can be found at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com. I found surgical dressings (available at any drugstore) to be ideal pads.
Charlie
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Most of the stuff I build uses White Oak or Mahogany. I've tried filling the grain (Behlens, etc) and just don't see it as anything other than a waste of time and materials...
I don't see that much of a difference and the wood, without pores looks like plastic to me.
Seems to me that if you wanted that kind of finish, you'd use a finer grained wood.
Here's a picture of the last piece I did...w/out filled pores..just transtint, then garnet shellac, then clear lacquer. I sand between every few coats and then after the last coat is dried and cured (generally a week or so if it's warm) I buff with 000 steel wool and then Johnson's paste wax.
I liked it and the customer liked it.
lp
Your post leads to the meat of the issue: Filling pores should be done for a specific reason, that reason being to produce a mirror-like finish, such as you'd find on a fine mahogany dining table or a piano.
My preference to "wet sand" the finish for oak (red mostly) stems from my dislike of the extremely open pores of that wood and also from my desire to minimize the bleeding that takes place when using a Danish oil finish.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 11/26/2005 12:43 pm by forestgirl
Finished the first end tables this weekend with Watco Fruitwood Danish Oil. Wanted the reddish/orange tones to coordinate with some cheery wood cabinents where that piece was going. Had some blotchiness with the colored Danish Oil. Tried wet sanding on the second coat to fix it with some success.
Have two coats on so far and I'm going to put on two more coats of plane Danish Oil. I think I'll switch to JE Mosers as it has a better moister permiability rating in the FW article.
I'm going to experiment with some different Danish Oil colors on other pieces for other rooms, and I'm going to try some wipe on poly for the final clear coats on a couple of pieces to give them a little better protection.
I recently finished a red oak bookcase. All surfaces were planed or scraped -- no sand paper. The filler I used was BLO & 4F pumice very gently rubbed into the grain with 400 grit sand paper. After letting the BLO/pumice slurry soak in and "dry" for about 15 - 20 minutes (I live in the desert with an average of about 8% humidity, so drying times are greatly accelerated), I removed the excess, wiping cross-grain. After letting the BLO/pumice filler cure for about a week, I put 6 thin coats of tung oil on, lightly scuffing with 0000 steel wool between coats, and 2 or 3 days of drying time between coats; final coat was allowed to dry for a week and then it was topped off with 2 coats of hard wax. The result was a slight darkening of the wood, really highlighting the grain, giving good depth and a semi-antique patina to the piece. The pores remained visible, but the surface was marble smooth to the touch. I haven't tried this technique on white oak, but it was recommended in FWW's article collection book on finishing as suitable for open pore woods. I'd certainly test it on scrap to see whether it works they way you want it to, before using it on one of your finished pieces. Hope that this might be of some use to you.
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