I built some cabinets for my kitchen and they are looking really nice. I am near the finishing process and was wondering if anyone would recommend some finishing products. The cabinets are Red Oak face frame design. I want to stain them fairly dark to match the oak in my house (built 1905). Should I seal the oak before staining it? With what product? I am concerned about the differences in absorption of the stain between the solid oak face frames and the plywood shells. Plywood is red oak too.
I also need to pick out some sort of top coat.
Any input?
Thanks
Replies
The big cab manufacturers use lacquer.
The best 'stain' is actually aniline dye. A gel stain would be really easy for you to use. Pretty foolproof.
I'd probably go with a wiping varnish. I think one is about as good as the other to be honest with you. I'd stay away from stain/poly combo products. I doubt if a high-gloss varnish is where you want to go, but that's up to your own taste.
Whatever you do, try your stain and topcoat routine on scrap first and some pretty decent size scraps at that.
Edited 2/8/2005 5:06 pm ET by cstan
ezeli,
You've asked some questions which simply invite every answer known to the finishing industry. It would really help if you narrowed your goals and abilities down a bit. You've literally asked, "How do I stain and finish oak?" Wow!
With what top coat finishes have you already had experience? Have you had experience applying paste wood filler to oak? The oak will need it, unless you specifically want to leave the grain open - NOT a good idea in kitchen cabinets.
The general sequence is paste wood filler. It is usually colored a dark brown when used on oak, personal preference applies here. Then apply stain. Or sanding sealer. The sequence can vary.
It doesn't matter what kind of stain. But experiment on the two different wood sources as they WILL stain differently and you will need to adjust the strength of the stain to get them to match.
Then deal with raised grain by sanding, if using a water-based dye.
The rest depends on answers to the questions I asked.
Rich
Don't ever learn anything new. Rather than give you satisfaction that you know more than you did, it will only confirm you know less than you thought by opening horizons to things of which you had never dreamt and which you now must explore.
I'd add that if this is a big kitchen remodel you've got a lot invested in this project, implicitly and explicitly. Kitchens and bathrooms sell houses. Thinking down the road, you don't want these cabs to look bad. A mediocre stain/finish job can literally ruin the work you've put into building these cabs.
Consider farming this piece of the action out. No shame in it whatsoever.
Red oak is a very forgiving wood. It doesn't get blotchy like maple or pine. There is a lot of work in finishing a kitchen so I would keep it simple. I often have home owners finish some of my work to save money. I recommend the following because it is basically foolproof, easy and durable.
Use a ready made stain directly applied to the oak. Using a conditioner or sealer is not needed. Trying to use a paste filler will cause more problems than you want, you don't need it in a kitchen. Minwax is a very consistent stain, it is easy to apply and available in a good range of colors. You can apply a second coat without making things muddy. It may be needed if you used rotary cut plywood. Don't use the polyshades, just the plain old oil based stain in the yellow cans.
I've always liked Zip-Guard satin oil base polyurethane. It has a light body and isn't as prone to runs and glassy build up. Apply two coats, allowing adequate drying time. Usually overnight. After the two initial coats lightly sand with 220 and clean up the dust thoroughly. One additional top coat is usually enough. If there are some dust nibs that remain on the surface, lightly sand with 400, very lightly. Buff with 0000 steel wool, apply a light coat of paste wax and buff with an old T-shirt. To maintain the finish, apply a light coat of wax every six months. I used this in my kitchen and it is over 20 yrs. old. Time for a new kitchen, not because it's worn, just out of style.
What ever finish you decide on, make sure to try it out on some decent sized scraps first.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Are you spraying or hand finishing. If your spraying with a HVLP or LVLP try enduro coat. Youll have to use their catalizer to make it more water resistent but its good stuff. Its w/b so it has no smell and cleans up fairly easy.
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com
I'm not sure if you meant to send me this post, Sancho Ron. I do have an HVLP conversion gun. I've sprayed a wide variety of coatings both with it and with other systems. Most of the Architectural shops that I have worked for still use pre-cat lacquers. Personally, I'm no longer a fan of surface coatings for some of my work. I do use 2K urethanes on my automotive restoration work, I think they are hard to beat.I felt that the original poster may not have spray equipment or experience based on his question. That's why I recommended a simple hand applied finish. The Zip-Guard is not like most polyurethanes. With a little care, the finish will rival the best sprayed products. You can get great results right out of the can with a minimum of fuss. I do recommend straining all products before use.Thanks for the info on Enduro products. I keep trying water base products both lacquers and polys but after about a dozen brands, I haven't found one I like. They are too blue for me and the overspray on cabinet interiors is hard to avoid. They just dry to fast and don't flow together well. I keep trying acrylics too, but they just don't give the porcelain touch that oils provide, not yet. In another year or so I'll be forced to give up my oils. I won't be happy if I have to give up my House of Color auto paint.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I meant this post for the orginal poster..but..
I tried a couple of w/b finishes and I really like enduro. It does dry fast but that is a plus. It goes on with a blue tint and dries clear.
I really like the different sheens. They make a very flat to give the wood a natural appearance and they make a amber tinited poly to give it a o/b type of finish. check out the website. They make a lot of differnt finishes.
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com
There are endless options here and I strongly suggest that you make up some (several) samples using both the plywood and solid wood and start experimenting until you find something you like and feel comfortable doing.
A couple of other things to think about:
Im new to your forum.... Have been wood working since 1970. And im in means a pro. The question I have on finishing cabinets is how do you match the color of an antique cabinet that has the really dark oak or cherry fininsh. which im sure has had 100's of years of furniture wax, oil from our skin etc. protecting it for eons. Or is there a way to match it?
Ahhh, matching an old finish can be one of the most exasperating things you'll ever do. If you know what kind of wood the old piece is made of, you'll have to do a lot of research and experimenting to find the modern stain, dye, finish, etc that will give you the best match. If it were me, I would find a good antiques restorer and get their advice.
Hi Thomas ,
And welcome to the forum , I got my start in furniture restoration and reproduction works . Some of the look you describe may be what can be construed as patina , that occurs over time from many of the things you mentioned . To match an old or antique finish , one very important thing is to try and use the exact same specie of woods. The example that comes to mind would be White Oak that as we know was used extensively in older pieces as it is still used . Before I knew it I had one heck of a time trying to match a finish simply because I was using Red Oak . So that is a factor and sometimes we would stain a new piece a really dark dark color and then we would strip it and have better results with the base color and dark in the grain and such. We also used shading as an option to get the desired color or tone when all else failed . The trick with shading is to try and keep the stain transparent and not to look opaque like paint .As far as Cherry wood the natural mellowing or darkening process that occurs partly from U.V. rays can be attained by using toners before your final stain goes on . I personally would suggest using extreme caution if you need to use toners , some are alcohol base and have a tendency to raise the heck out of your smooth wood grain that you have already sanded .After using the toner when I tried to sand the wood I went through the toner or base color .
I hope this helps a bit dusty
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