I am interested in Christian Becksvort’s method of finishing Cherry projects. I read in his book”Shaker Inspiration “ that sanding to 400 or 600 grit sufficiently reduces blotching. Once sanded sufficiently, how does he finish the work? I’m building a Cherry trestle table and don’t have a lot of experience finishing Cherry wood. Love the look of his pieces.
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Read issue 206 Chris goes over how he applies Tried and True finish.
He uses a oil/varnish mix . https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/finishing/finish-recipe-shaker-chest-of-drawers
To be honest, I wouldn't first start using Tried and True Varnish on a big project. There are a lot of people who report struggling with it, so at the least, one should practice with it before using it on anything major. I have a can I just recently opened to get acquainted with it, using it first on some new chisel handles I made. For my big projects, I use Waterlox Original. There was a recent FWW article on using it and how to rub it out after it cures (for a couple weeks minimum.) I have made a lot of cherry furniture, and it is a beautiful finish on cherry. My impression is that it is an easier finish to get right than Tried and True.
On the sanding front, my first rule is to not sand cherry with grits coarser than P22o, unless there is no other way. Anything coarser is liable to put deep visible scratches in the wood, which are almost impossible to remove. Given cherry's unpredictable beautiful grain, I use a cabinet scraper rather than a plane to remove planer/jointer/saw marks and get the surface ready for the 220. After the 220, I use 320 grit, and 400 if it is highly figured. Let me know if you want any further tips on using the Waterlox.
Thanks for the response. I have had good results with Waterloo on maple but have only recently been working Cherry and have not tried it on Cherry. I’d gratefully accept any more guidance you have.
As per the FWW article, I have been using foam brushes to apply most of the coats of Waterlox. Scrape and sand as mentioned (and use an air compressor and clean cloth to remove all dust and loose grit from the surface before going on to the next finer grit. Otherwise you risk re-scratching the surface with the grit residue.) The tech guy at Waterlox has been very helpful. His recommendation is to apply several wet coats of finish (I use the foam brush) before sanding at all. He says to make sure that you have enough finish on before sanding that you don't sand thru the finish layer back to bare wood, or you will get a contrast that is hard to undo. I typically put on 3 coats. Even tho the scraping and sanding leaves a surface that doesn't have much raised grain (and the Waterlox doesn't tend to do that either), the first coat leaves the surface somewhat rough. I ignore it and apply 2 more coats. After letting the finish harden an extra day, I level the surface with 320 or 400 grit. Wipe down with mineral spirits and let dry. Apply 2 more coats with the foam brush. If the finish looks good, except that it is still not perfectly smooth, sand with 400 grit wet or dry paper lubricated with mineral spirits, rub with 0000 steel wool lubricated with mineral spirits, wipe down with clean mineral spirits and let dry, and apply the final coat. Here is the secret: for the final coat, make an applicator using a quarter of a men's old white handkerchief (extremely fine thread count, washed a thousand times to remove lint) and a ball of cotton. Wrap the cloth around the cotton, rubber band it closed, and apply a very thin coat of finish to the top, just enough to wet the surface and fill in the cloudiness left by the lubricated steel wool. The thin layer dries almost immediately, reducing the time for dust to settle on it and get stuck. Sometimes it takes two of these final coats to completely remove the cloudiness.
In general, I try to avoid using wax as a last coat on table tops, as it is prone to spotting with water or alcohol. For other furniture, if desired, the gloss of the Waterlox can be reduced with steel wool and paste wax. For table tops, you can use the 0000 steel wool, then rub it out with auto body polish of the appropriate fineness.
I hope this helps.
"make sure that you have enough finish on before sanding that you don't sand thru the finish layer back to bare wood, or you will get a contrast that is hard to undo."
This is advice number one for any finish. You don't want to sand through to bare wood. And sanding after the first coat or two is just going to take longer to get the build you want.
Just re-read your original post, and saw that you are making a trestle table. I've just been re-finishing two walnut table tops and and oak one (all for myself for a change; they have all needed re-doing for over 25 years but the customers have always come first till now.) I'll be happy to provide more info on using the Waterlox on table tops if you are interested. It may be significantly tougher than T & T. Both have the advantage of being repairable.
According to the safety data sheets, Waterlox and Tried & True are very different products . Depending on how old is your waterlox can, the recipe seems to change often but it always has between 50 and 75% solvent in it mixed with an unspecified oil or resin and a couple chemicals. Tried and True is 75% linseed oil and 25% resin so my guess is if you take one quart of T&T mixed with two quarts of mineral spirits you get something close to 3 quarts of Waterlox.
Tried and true is a hard wax oil and cannot be thinned. Especially with mineral spirits. It must be used on its own.
There are several different Tried and True finishes. Only one has wax in it. The Tried and True Varnish Oil discussed above that Chris Becksvoort uses does not have wax.
Correct. So let me double down. Neither original or varnish oil should be combined with mineral spirits. They would say the same thing if you asked them directly. Not trying to be a know it all, just don’t want people ruining their projects with misinformation.
What is the negative impact of thinning T&T varnish oil? I ask this because, I have done so with paint thinner in combination with spar varnish with no apparent problem.
I cannot find the tried and true hard wax product but here is their original finish and the recipe in the msds, a linseed oil and beeswax mix. https://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products/original-wood-finish/
The listed ingredients for the current T&T varnish oil is modified linseed oils and sylvetac resin.
https://s3.gomedia.ws/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2016/03/FBC-TRIED-AND-TRUE-VO_MTR_GHSF_EN.pdf
From Fine Woodworking #152, Christian Becksvort
After 30 years of building and finishing furniture, I still turn to an oil finish for almost all of my work. Oil seeps into the wood and leaves a handrubbed sheen that film finishes just can’t replicate.
Oil finishes are very popular, and I’ve tried them all: boiled linseed oil from the hardware store, Watco, Waterlox, Velvit, oil and polyurethane mixes, Livos (now Bio Shield), tung oil and Minwax. But when Tried & True came on the market in the early 1990s, I decided to use it as my primary finish. It has all of the attributes of an oil finish: spot repairability and easy maintenance, ease of application and quick build of both the finish and the patina. However, what really sealed it for me was the fact that I would no longer be exposing myself and my customers to toxic metal and petroleum driers contained in most other oils. I have no qualms about using Tried & True for baby cribs, children’s furniture or even cutting boards. Never again will I be dipping my bare hands into “boiled” linseed oil.
Believe it or not, the “boiled “ linseed oil you get from the hardware store is not boiled at all. It’s raw oil with either petroleum or heavy-metal driers. Many contain volatile organic compounds (VOCs), which cause air pollution. Even so, they never really dry. The raw, unfiltered oils used in most oil finishes should not be applied to cabinet interiors. When opened, one of my 30-year-old cabinets still greets me with the smell of rancid oil. Tung oil is a decent oil finish, but it takes ages to dry, and it tends to turn yellow.
As far as I know, the only real boiled linseed oil on the market is Tried & True Varnish Oil. This filtered, pure linseed oil is light in color, has a pleasant odor and is very thick. Wiping it is a bit like pushing honey, giving the term “hand-rubbed finish” a whole new meaning.
Tried & True was developed by Joe Robeson, a furniture maker in Trumansburg, N.Y. He found an 1850 formula for producing the oil used in coach-makers varnish. Heat causes the oil to polymerize and absorb oxygen when drying, yielding a bright, durable finish. Robeson found the right boiling time and temperature to produce an oil with great film strength and beauty. The Material Safety Data Sheet is almost too good to be true. It contains less than 0.1% of any substances listed as carcinogens by government agencies. Think about that the next time you stick your bare hands into an oil finish containing petroleum distillates or heavy-metal driers.
Tried & True can be applied over bare or stained wood. The directions say the oil and wood should be at least room temperature (70°F). But heating the oil to 120°F in a glue pot makes it penetrate better.
Here on the FWW site you can watch a video of Chris Becksvoort mixing and applying his favorite finish for cherry wood.
It's part of the SHAKER CANDLE STAND video series - episode 7.
Mike
In my limited experience, any kind of oil is going to work well with cherry.
On my last project I had very good results with tinted shellac and ArmRSeal.
Jim hall it won’t let me reply to your comment directly so I’ll add it to the bottom here. You’re stating how you thinned down spar varnish with mineral spirits. That’s correct to do because that’s the right thinner for that product. You wouldn’t put lacquer thinner in poly or paint thinner in lacquer etc. Every film finish can be thinned. Tried and true is not a film finish. This is the very important difference.
I know you can thin linseed oil with thinner. I'm not sure why someone would want to thin linseed oil on its own necessarily, but it can be done. You don't have to take my word for it. You can google "thinning linseed oil" for more information.
I mix mineral spirits, linseed oil, and varnish all the time. It's an ancient recipe.
And it’s pretty much what all oil finishes makers do , the rest is marketing. I rather mix my own also but if in a bind , I could get tried and true and thin it . Their recipes do not include thinners but thinning them down and applying more coats could prove easier for the beginner. And if I need linseed oil, I could buy their danish oil, it’s pure linseed oil.
There are more lies about finishes and from finish makers than anything else in woodworking.
Ok, go thin tried and true with mineral spirits and let us know the result then. Only way to really know for yourself…
I'd never buy Tried and True. Danish oil is nothing but ordinary boiled linseed oil, but over priced. Their varnish oil is 80/20 BLO and varnish, and also overpriced. I can make my own, better and cheaper.
I think you are using varnish too broadly. Pine resin is very different than a poly. I highly doubt the mix you are using involves pine resin. I think this is redundant at this point. To each their own and let’s leave it at that. Sorry for trying to help.
Tried and True Danish Oil is not BLO. It’s a polymerized linseed oil - no chemical “drying” agents - but it has been polymerized so it cures more quickly than regular linseed oil. I use it all the time and it’s fantastic. A little more amber than the yellowish tone of Tung Oil. Both can be beautiful depending what you’re going for. I also use Tung oil quite often. After a month or so both oils create a sturdy top layer, though in my experience not quite as tough a surface as, say, a poly that builds up on top of the wood.
Practice your finishing routine on project scrap first. There is no need to wonder. Do it just like Becksvoort. If you like it, carry on. If not, start experimenting.
Garrett Hack wrote an article about a concoction he liked to use (at least earlier in his career). It is: 1/3 boiled linseed oil, 1/3 gloss Helmsman spar varnish, and 1/3 turpentine.
Do a search of the FW archives for surface prep and application tips from Mr. Hack that accompanied the article about this finish.
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