I read about avoiding blotching on cherry making a preliminary treatment with 1 cut dewaxed shellac, I did it on my cabinet by brushing, but seems to me that the boards are showing a relevant blotching effect; I just did it and I am approaching the light sanding to prepare for further finishing, I was attempted to use shellac at all with final wax.
Does anybody knows what is the most suggested finishing at this point in time, to minimize the blotching?
Replies
I just read an article by Bob Flexner - Finishing Cherry. The introductory on the cover of the magazine said, "Cherry Blotches - So Get Over It!". Might want to have a peek at the article. In essence he says given time, the blotching will eventually become less noticeable.
Yes I suppose I'm one of those who advocate letting cherry do its own thing so to speak. My question to those who choose to cover it up is, why did you use cherry in the first place?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
tamste,
If you did not use any stain only clear finish and still see what you are calling blotch , I would say what you are seeing is more the natural reflectivity and grain switch of the Cherry , not to be construed as a defect .
good luck dusty
This is the first work using cherry, I read about blotching, and looks to me it is blotching effect, also the clear areas are "randomically dark" but it is possible I am wrong.
I decided to finish with shellac and then wax it, let you know at the end.
As I have often seen about "cherry blotching", sometimes it is the charm of the wood. ;o)Gretchen
tamste
I too have seen cherry blotch "randomly". That is, in areas that do not look any different than the adjacent non-bltoching areas. Even on pieces where there is straight, even grain.
Yes exactly, did you do anything in particular to minimize the effect? And what results have you got?
Stefano
tamste, I am no expert, just a hobbyist. I usually change my finish plan when I see this. You could try sanding to a very high grit (1500 is the highest I have) and see if that burnishing reduces the absorption. Or a coat of sanding sealer. Or add dye to the shellac and make it so dark the blotching is masked.
Edited 6/23/2009 6:13 pm ET by stantheman
Have a look at at this page on my website, scroll down to near the bottom of the page and look for photographs 4 and 5 and the accompanying text.
I think what you are seeing in your test samples is probably what is briefly discussed and illustrated there. You do get what is commonly called blotching which is more apparent in certain woods than others, even with clear finishes; and the cause is, as others have described, the result of the way the angled severed cross section of the fibres dip in and out of the exposed surface.
With some woods, American cherry being one them, I tend to not worry too much about this effect unless a customer really wants a flat, even and 'unblotched' appearance. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
What brand of stain are you using? If the brand has multiple types of stain to choose from (e.g., Minwax), which type and color are you testing?
Have you already stained the cabinet?
website
I am not using any stain, I just would like to finish the cabinet and decided to use shellac having read about helping to prevent blotching; I would like to use shellac at all, and then finish with a wax.
If you just applied shellac and got a "blotchy" look, that's just the directionality in the wood grain. The same spots/areas that look dark from one angle will look light from another angle. That's a natural characteristic of cherry. As the wood ages and darkens, it will be less noticeable, though in good lighting it will add a depth to the look of the wood that is very appealing.Wax over a film finish like shellac is purely optional and won't add more durability. Is there a specific reason you want to use the wax?Paul
website
Thanks Paul, this is the first work I am doing using Cherry, I am a beginner, but it seems to me the effect doesn't change so much changing the angle of view; really it seems that the effect decreased with complete drying of shellac, I just sanded the first coat and have to apply the additional shellac.
About wax, I though that the effect would be better than a simple film of shellac, but really, I don't know; you suggest to keep it as it is; what is the suggested cut of the final coating of shellac?
Stefano
Using paste wax is an option Stefano. Sometimes people will rub in a coat of paste wax with 0000 steel wool and buff it out for a satin sheen with a very smooth texture. The paste wax has to be renewed as it wears off though. I just wondered if you had a specific goal in mind for using wax or just thought it was a step that would be good to add.If you're getting a nice smooth finish by brushing the 1# cut of shellac, you can stick with that. If you increase the cut, there's a chance you'll get brush strokes in the dried finish more easily.Paul
website
Paul,
Out of curiosity, what would you suggest as the thickest cut of shellac you would pad on? I'm thinking the brush marks wouldn't be an issue but perhaps the flatness of the finish might need to be rubbed out.
I should think wax could also present problems with refinishing and/or repairing. It would have to be removed in either case.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/22/2009 8:35 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, are you using a pad or brush to apply shellac? I am using a brush and looks pretty good, I never used pad, and I don't know what the best option is, if you can suggest it hekps.
Stefano
Stefano,
Yes I'm padding it on using a section of material cut from an old tee shirt.
Deciding whether to pad or brush shellac involves all kinds of questions methinks; size/orientation of workpiece(s), your skill level with either method, etc. I suppose the wood may also be a factor or mebbe just a personal preference, I'm not sure.
To me the main thing is the final finish - whether it looks good to me. I use a process that works for me but may not work for everyone. Let's face it, we're putting on a clear finish so the wood will show, right? I really wouldn't be concerned with the blotching.
Why in heavens name did someone call it blotching? That word seems to leave your mind in a kind of blotching is a defect state. Almost like some folks see a knot as a defect - others don't...........................
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, thank you for your suggestions, I basically agree with you, the final effect is what we have to look at, I am a beginner, and this is the first work I am doing with cherry, but really, it looks like a blotching in areas where apparently we should have regular grain and consistency.
I never used padding, I have seen it on the web site, but think that for a beginner brushing is better and more controllable; I will prepare a new batch of 1# cut shellac, probably buy a brand new brush to make sure I am using the right brush, and continue on that untill I will see a good finish.
Thank you.
Stefano
Stefano,
Just out of curiosity, is it possible that something got on the wood where you are seeing the blotches and it's not really the wood that is bothering you?
If you haven't already done this, use the Advanced Search here in Knots and search for cherry blotch. You will see a lot of prior discussions regarding this issue and learn a wealth of information about it. Lots of theories and tried solutions and cherry is , well cherry.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/24/2009 11:01 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Thank you Bob, I will do that, anyway, I used shellac flakes dissolved into denatured alcohol, I am a chemist, so I am pretty familiar with this operation; i prepared the solution some week before applying it, so, I am sure it didn't expire or lose the original features, the wood has been sanded 220 grit with sander, trying to be as much as possible accurate.
I will check further in the knot section .
Than kyou.
Stefano
A 2lb cut works very well for both brushing and wiping, 1lb is a bit thin. The trick is to keep moving quickly, you cannot "tip off" or revisit the last pass or you will make a mess, runs,say around a corner can be quickly wiped off with your finger and then wiped on a rag hung from your pocket. If you use a brush buy a badger hair, well loaded, not dripping, the shellac will wick off it in a nice even coat. When brushing you do not "paint" it on like other finishes, lay the brush down at a relatively acute angle and use a quick continuous stroke, essentially you are padding with a brush. . Both brushing and padding work equally well but the brush will lay down a heavier coat for the same cut. You can also use a heavier cut of shellac with a brush, but I prefer a 2 lb for both. By the way did I mention you have to work fast?
Very good recommendation, I really made some mistake during the first wash coat, I noted after that, and understand perfectly what you mean describingthe brushing.
I don't need to be fast, since this is a cabinet for myself, and I have all time need to do so; probably in this week end I will continue my work and let you know about results.
Than kyou again.
Stefano
I did not mean to imply you had to finish the job quickly, but that when laying down the finish with either method you have to move quickly, as it tacks up very fast and you want to stay ahead of it.Good Lick
Rob
Rob,
tacks up very fast and you want to stay ahead of it.
Oh yeah that's a big 10-4.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I'm not very good at padding/polishing Bob. It takes a lot of practice to get really good, and I haven't made the investment in time or effort. I've stuck with a 1# cut on the few pieces I've done and it went pretty well. Some prefer a 1 1/2# or 2# cut, but with my lack of experience, the thinner cut works for me.
Paul
website
Thank you a lot Paul, yuor suggestion helps, and I will follow it; now I just sanded out the first coat, and going to apply the second one, I have to prepare a new batch of 1 # cut shellac, and post the results.
Stefano
Now, I don't know about anyone else, but for myself, I have always found cherry to be so full of grain shifts and absorption rate changes that unless you like all that character in the finish .... use something else. As far as a good finish, shellac is what I would recommend. 1# cut is fine. I would use a pad instead of a brush and wait until after the third coat before I sanded lightly (go easy on the edges when you sand and remember you're only trying to smooth it out). Remember that even though it dries pretty quick, each coat dries slower then the last. Keep your pad moving and don't let it dry out on you. Here is a site you can check out on french polishing that will help you understand a cool way to apply shellac: http://www.milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html They work on instruments, but the method they use works on a lot more then guitars. More importantly, the way they describe the method is easy to understand. And it looks to me that English may not be your first language. (Guessing here ;p) They have some really good clips on their site. Have fun and remember ..... If you don't like it, strip it off and try something else.
Best of luck!!!!
Edited 7/20/2009 7:06 pm ET by Beckum
Hi, Thank you so much for your notes, you are right about my language, I am italian, and also I am a guitar player, so, I am familiar with the guitars too..........In the mean time I tried to finish my cabinet with shellac, I used the brush, but I am not satisfied, even though using a good brush, the finish is not good, and now I think I understand the benefits of using pads.
I agree also about the cherry, the boards I used have a grain that changes continuously direction, and finally, the darker areas are a touch of beautiful "variety", finally I like it and its appearance.
I probably thought that applying shellak by pads is too difficult, and it likely needs some practice, but finally, the result is largely better than brushing, and I am now convinced I have to learnd about using pad; I used #1 cut for as first, and #2 cut for the seconfd, but I agree that the #1 cut is better and will use it in the future.
I am thinking what happen if I try to apply the final coats with a pad over the current finish; I will read carefully the linked information and try to use a pad on a small area to learn.
Thank you again for your notes.
Stefano
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