Replies

1. 
   roc | Sep 08, 2012 08:31pm | #1

   Encore

   I can't really speak to finishing cherry as well as others here so I will stay out of their way on that one but I would like to be able to see your work.

   On  my end your photos won't open and are in the text as small blue square buttons.

   Please try the photos again and add them by using the "Choose File" button bellow the text field that shows up when you make a new reply.  Here is a photo of the button I am talking about . . .

   Be sure to use the sizing tool in your photo viewer to reduce the file size to roughly 75 to 100 KB (600 x 800 pixels) so it won't take up a lot of room on FWW and will load fast for every one.

   PS: come to think of it since you initiated this thread the Add Photos button may be at the top of your page and you can click on that to add photos.

   
1. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 08, 2012 08:40pm | #2

   Hi Roc, Sorry about the pictures. It's the first time I tried this and I guess it didn't work. I'll try again.

   
1. 
   roc | Sep 08, 2012 09:07pm | #3

   Gosh That Is Nice !

   Your chest  of drawers is very nice.  I like the over all visual feel of it.  The grain chosen for the drawer fronts, the posts in the top rear, the through tenons, the curve at the bottom.

   All really work well together.

   Deserves a first rate finish.

   If you don't get some info in a day or two I will post some links.  I don't have much first hand experience with cherry though; just what I have read.

   Thank you for your inspiring work.

1. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 08, 2012 10:21pm | #4

   No comment

   Thanks for the compliment Roc,I appreciate it.

2. 
   Westchester | Sep 10, 2012 06:01am | #5

   Blotching

   If you're not staining blotching isn't your worry.  Use a clear finish of your choice.

   SA

3. 
   bilyo | Sep 10, 2012 01:44pm | #6

   Don't Overlook Oil Finish

   Really nice work!  I would suggest that, before you make your decission on which finish to use, consider something like a danish oil or mix-it-yourself varnish/oil/thinner. It will really pop the color and grain. It is easy to apply with few worries about blotching, And, it is easier to repair if that is ever necessary.  If you go with the commercial stuff, Waterlox is probably the most durable.

1. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 10, 2012 07:31pm | #7

   Botching with oil

   Hi Billyo, Thanks for the compliment. I do have some concerns about putting oil on the bare wood, in a couple other large projects with cherry  some boards showed noticeable botching. I've seen a few articles, including fww, recommending shellac as a sealer coat. I gather that you don't agree with this.  Regarding the waterlox, if I use it, how would you apply  it? Brush it on and wipe it off or wipe it on and wipe it off. I'm concerned with being able to get in all the corners with a rag. What should be done in between coats? I'm shooting for a semi-gloss  film finish. Thanks for the input. It is appreciated.

4. 
   bilyo | Sep 10, 2012 10:34pm | #8

   Finishing Cherry

   Knothead,

   I am far from a finishing expert, but I'll go ahead and tell you what I think I know and others can jump on me if I say something wrong.

   First.  What do you refer to as "blotching"?  Cherry has a natural figure that produces darker shadowy areas that tend to shift in the light when the wood is properly finished.  Some call it blotchy, but actually it is usually a sought after feature.  I don't know what the proper term for this is. You should see this with the finish you propose using also.

   The blotching you don't want is what you get when you put liquid stain on improperly prepared wood.  The pigment in the stain will find  porous areas and these areas will then look like darker "blotchy" areas.

   Usually, if cherry is properly sanded through 220 grit, an oil finish will not be blotchy, but will accentuate the natural figure that is sometimes called blotchyness.

   There is lots of reading material available on the use of this method.  Usually, you use a mixture of equal parts of varnish (not spar varnish), boiled linseed oil or tung oil, and paint thinner or turpentine.  Some things you read will suggest the addition of a dryier such as Japan Dryier.  I've not found the need for it, but make sure your linseed oil or tung oil is fresh. The first coat goes on liberally, is allowed to penetrate, and then wiped almost dry. Subsequent coats go on basically the same way except, as the pores of the wood get filled, less penetration time is needed.  You can apply 2-3 coats a day and you may need 5-6 coats - more if you want more gloss.  You might want to try this on some scrap wood first, but if you sand it properly, you should not have any blotching.

   Rather that mixing your own finish, you can use any of the commercial mixes like danish oil.  There are many.  I mentioned Waterlox because it uses components that make it somewhat more durable and water resistent.  Application is basically the same.  It is a little more costly.

   If you have lots of nooks and crannies, you will need some q-tips or similar means to get the excess mixture off.  It is not recommended that you use any oil finish in drawers or inside the case.  The smell will last a long long time.  Use shellac on these areas.

   I have nothing against the use of shellac.  Lots of beautiful pieces are finished with shellac alone or in combination.  It does require some additiional skills to use it properly.  Shellac is frequently use as a seal coat under certain conditions.  However, you would not use it with a penetrating oil finish.

5. 
   swenson | Sep 11, 2012 01:27am | #9

   I have had great results with Tried &True Varnish Oil on cherry. There are those who have used it who say it takes six months to dry, or it never ever dries. They are not using it right. There was even an article in Fine Woodworking quite a while back that said don't use this stuff, it won't dry. The author of that piece did not read the directions. T&T is rubbed into the wood in very very thin coats. It is almost impossible to use too little. After an hour it is rubbed down with a clean cloth. If more than a just a trace comes off on the cloth you have used too much. 24 hours later you burnish with a clean cloth or 0000 steel wool. Then you do it again. I never go more than four coats, but you could. Four seems to work on a kitchen table that gets heavy use. It's easy to repair. Once a year I add a coat to table tops. I like to get cherry exposed to a lot of sunlight when I'm finishing it. The sun brings out a lot of color. One summer I finished a cherry bed out on the deck, bringing it in every night or if rain was expected. The only problem was trying not to let drops of sweat fall on the wood. It got darker and darker each day. Whatever you end up using be sure to do test pieces first on cut offs from the chest, planed and sanded the same way. Good luck. Send pix when you're done. By the way, I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots of experts on this forum and I hope you hear from them.

6. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 11, 2012 07:53pm | #10

   Finishing cherry

   Hi Billyo and Swenson. Thanks for your opinions. I'm having a hard time deciding. I will have to  try some samples. At this point I'm leaning towards waterlox. The concern about mixing my own is the fumes that will overload my basement shop and up into the house. The article in fww scared me off the T+T brand. The first coat needs to be applied liberally. How do you do that on the vertical surfaces? This piece is pretty heavy and awkward to be flipping around alone. Is it possible to do this with the carcase standing  as is. The top can be removed and finished separately.   I've spent a long time building this and am a little nervous about the finishing. Thanks for the guidance.

1. 
   roc | Sep 12, 2012 12:41am | #11

   C. B. uses T&T That's Enough For Me

   This guy is practically "Mr. Cherry".  

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/PlansAndProjects/PlansAndProjectsArticle.aspx?id=33017

   He uses Tried and True in various forms.

   There is one article on using just the oil.

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2751

   Here is one that is a mix and seems to not have solvent in the recipe so that might work for you.

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=32629

   I would certainly trust his articles.  I am not that into Shaker furniture though I understand it is truly great.  I am however, impressed with Mr. Becksvoort's articles and overall methods and results.

   PS: keep in mind some, most, of the factory finishes have a fair amount of solvent in them.  Many people buy the key ingredients and mix them because it is cheeper than buying a gallon of "finish" that is highly thinned with solvent that can be got cheeper.

2. 
   swenson | Sep 12, 2012 01:40am | #12

   The first coat needs to be applied liberally

   I'm not too sure which FWW article you are reading.  Remember, they printed a lot of misinformation in one of theitr pieces about T&T  The first coat should NOT be applied liberally.  No coats should.  It is almost impossible to use too little on the first coat, last coat, or any inbetween.  I use a popsicle stick to transfir a very small ammount from can to pad, rub it into the pad and then onto the wood.  It can't run down a vertical side.  It is a film so thin you can hardly see it.  Whatever you use, good luck with your project.  I know the feeling, "I spent so much time on this and it looks so good, I sure don't want to screw it up now"  I've been there myself too many times.  Take care.  Be safe with any oily rags, they can and do burst into flames by themselves.

1. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 12, 2012 08:04pm | #13

   Thanks again for the help guys. I'm thinking that T+T might be worth trying, at least some samples. Let me see if  I understand your directions correctly. Take a cotton cloth and wipe some T+T varnish/oil on it with a popsicle stick and rub it into the cloth. Then apply the material to the carcase,rubbing it in as thin as possible. How do I get it into the corners and crevices? Should the wood be wiped down with a clean cloth after a few minutes? In between coats, after drying, should it be rubbed down with steel wool or sand paper or anything? One last question, after 4 coats of this will I have a semigloss film finish that will offer some protection? I really appreciate the input.Thanks.   

1. 
   roc | Sep 12, 2012 09:50pm | #14

   As the Manufacture says :

   Wipe on a thin coat. Wipe off in 5 minutes.

   (that is for the oil.  The Oil / wax application is slightly different  and I didn't look at the other one)

   http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products.htm

   I hope I am not barging in too much here.

1. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 13, 2012 07:39pm | #16

   T+T links

   Hi Roc, Thanks for the links. They were very informative and cleared up the basic questions that I had. I'm going to pick up a can of the varnish oil and try it on a sample board. In C. Becksvoort article he recommends using this on the interior  of cabinets also. This allows you to have both sides of the wood finished the same way. Now, I've already done the inside of the cabinet with water based polycrylic. Also the drawer bottoms and the drawer sides and backs. Do you think it would be alright to finish the drawer fronts inside and outside with the T+T? Thanks again.

2. 
   roc | Sep 13, 2012 09:06pm | #17

   Personally I would , from reading James Krenov books etc., use very thin shellac inside cabinets and drawers and keep the oil on the outside where it can get plenty of air for drying/curing.  Oil inside cabinets can smell bad and make what you keep in those drawers smell bad.

   Or go with what ever Swenson has found to be best.

3. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 14, 2012 07:17pm | #18

   Finishing chest

   Hi Roc,  I think will finish up the drawer fronts with the polcrylic on the inside and not take a chance. This week  I'll take a trip to woodcraft and get the T+T varnish oil and try some sample pieces. Thanks for all the help with this decision.  When I have some results I'll post some pictures, probably a few weeks . Thanks

2. 
   swenson | Sep 13, 2012 01:41am | #15

   Knothead

   I just sent you a message.  Knots is again rejecting my posts as spam.  It drives me nuts when I spend a lot of time on a post and then it gets rejected.  It should be in your inbox in Knots.  Sometimes messages to in boxes get rejected too, but this one seemed to go through.

2. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Oct 09, 2012 06:06pm | #22

   Did samples

   Hi woodworkers, I did a couple of samples with the T+T varnish oil. One on a cherry board and one on cherry ply. I applied 5 coats over the last couple weeks. I like everything about it except it doesn't seem to build  any film on the surface. I put on each coat very lightly, rubbed into the wood with the pad,let it sit for 1 hour and then wiped any residue off with a rag. After 24 hours it was buffed with a cloth. A couple days later repeated the process. Did this for 5 coats. The color is beautiful, there are no bad fumes, but doesn't have much protection. A couple drops of water and 30 seconds later you wipe it off and you can see  a little discoloration and feel the grain raised. I think I have to try plan B. Does anybody have experience with Waterlox finish/sealer. I saw a cherry table at the  Woodcraft store, an advertisement for their woodworking school, it looked great. My concern is how bad the fumes are with this. It is started to get cool in CT. now and I'm finishing in my basement. I would appreciate some feedback on this. Thank You .

1. 
   roc | Oct 10, 2012 01:48am | #24

   Still no cherry expert am I

   Though I can say I have done some damage to me and those I live with from finish fumes and do not want to repeat that.  Not wood finish though.  My mistake was spraying outside, no problem there, but I brought it inside where it was warm to continue to dry after a day outside.  Still out gassing for days.  Not good.

   I don't know if there is even enough thinner in the building finish Steve just suggested to be any problem so not saying anything against that.

   What I am suggesting is a third option . . .

   have a local, professional, finisher do the job for you.  Just a thought.  I have trouble trusting others to do work for me.  I am too picky.  But lacking a finish room and wanting a film finish in the cold months what are you going to do ?

7. 
   SteveSchoene | Sep 15, 2012 08:58am | #19

   I don't understand the facination with a product that requires the injunction that you "can't put on too little".  You aren't going to achieve really superior results but face a slow deliberate process that is easy enough to screw up with very minor deviations from best application practices..  If you are going for a satin "in the wood" finish use an ordinary mix of oil and varnish.  It will look virtually identical.  If you want to develop a sheen, then use a wiping varnish such as Waterlox. 

   By the way, Waterlox is NOT a mix of oil and varnish, it is simply a varnish.  The Sealer/Finish is semigloss varnish that is thinned to be used as a wiping varnish.  Gloss Waterlox is a heavier varnish that would brush well, or could be thinned to use as a wiping varnish.  The Satin would also need thinning to wipe on well.  If wiping the Satin you would need to be very well stirred initially and continally stirred during application to avoid streaks where the gloss level varied.  The Waterlox varnishes are high quality, tough varnishes, though they are relatively dark colored, and will yellow over time. 

1. 
   KNOTHEAD101 | Sep 16, 2012 01:56pm | #20

   Hi SteveSchoene, Thanks for the reply, As you can see in this thread there are many varying opinions on the options. All of them will probably give good results if applied correctly. I am going to woodcraft this week and get ,T+T, and Waterlox. I already have Minwax wipe on. I've sanded up some board ends from the project and am going to make some test samples of all the finishes, and see which one will best fit my circumstances.Thanks to all of you fellow woodworkers for taking time to offer assistance. Especially Roc and Bilyo and Swenson and yourself. I will post an update in a few weeks.

8. 
   bilyo | Sep 17, 2012 01:01pm | #21

   Waterlox Not a Mix

   Steveschoene,

   Could you clarify your statement about Waterlox being a varnish and not a mix?  My information says that their original sealer/finish is a mix of resins, tung oil, and other stuff.  However, I think they do sell a polyurethane varnish (not mix).

   Thanks

9. 
   SteveSchoene | Oct 09, 2012 10:06pm | #23

   Waterlox's marketing tends to be a bit florid, but regardless of the hype, Waterlox Original/Sealer is a high grade varnish, which uses tung oil as an ingredient in manufacturing varnish with mostly phenolic resin as the resin content.  It is a bit thinner than the other original Waterlox varnishes, but that's due to additional thinner, not because of any unreacted oil.  The tung oil in Waterlox has been "cooked" with the resins to become varnish.  Unlike oil/varnish mixes, you can use it to build a surface film. 

10. 
    Mcfarmer | Oct 10, 2012 10:02pm | #25

    Very nice chest. I used the Zinsser on some cherry and had really good results. Be careful not to sand too much or you will go through it.