I’ve finished a recent project in my workshop with my usual two coats of Tung Oil. Can I now seal it over with a more durable and water resistant finish? It’s a sharpening bench/station in case you are wondering and since I use water stones it will obviously be exposed to water.
Replies
What kind of tung oil?
Products described as tung oil by users fall in three very distinct and different categories:
1. Pure tung oil and the label says that or perhaps 100% tung oil. The label does not use the term tung oil finish.
2. A mix of oil (likely not all tung oil, sometimes with no tung oil) and varnish (which varnish may not have included tung oil as an ingredient.) This will be called Tung Oil Finish. Minwax Tung Oil Finish is in this category.
3. A wiping varnish. No oil of any kind in the final product, only oil used as an ingredient in making the varnish. Formby's Tung Oil Finish falls in this category. As a wiping varnish it will protect as well as any wiping varnish you might choose to put over it.
There is a reason for all these fake tung oil finishes (categories 2 and 3). Manufacturer's don't like selling products that protects wood only minimally, takes a long time to dry (several days, between coats) and takes quite a few coats (5-6) to give an even sheen. A product that can turn "frosty white" on the surface if you try to move to quickly (and don't hold your mouth right.) That's how pure tung oil works. So they go around the bad stuff and substitute better working products that sort of looks like they think customers think a tung oil finish looks. But some object to the deceptive nature of the marketing. You can usually figure out what the product is if you read the label as if you were trying to figure out the catch in some free vacation to Florida.
Thanks so much for all the valuable information. I had not seen your post earlier. I'm still new to the 'Knots' forum.
I did in fact use the Minwax Tung Oil finish which is what was readily available at the hardware store and relatively cheap. Normally I use a polimerized Tung Oil from Lee Valley.
Sounds like mayble a couple more coats of the Minwax should give me the desired protective finish for my sharpening station.
Thanks again
Maurizio
Well, I should mention that the Minwax Tung Oil Finish isn't a varnish, it is an oil/varnish mix, great for many uses, but not as water protective as a pure varnish product, largely because you have to wipe off any excess quite thoroughly. If you leave it as a film, the film will be quite soft and gummy. You might well be better off with straight varnish, not the mix, in your application. The variety won't matter much. Especially since this is shop furniture not livingroom furniture.
By the way, the Polymerized Tung Oil from LV actually represents a fourth kind of finish. The polymerization--a partial oxidation--does give the pure tung oil somewhat different properties, making it more moisture resistant and faster drying. It's also a bit harder to apply evenly over large areas due to it's more rapid drying.
On a lighter tone than this thread seems to be going, I have and do use many finishes for different purposes, but less now that I'm gearing down and don't really want the 7-20 day finishing schedules some of my work has needed in the past.
So.... what is everyone's general opinion of "Polymerized Tung Oil from LV".
Please,just your experiences with that product.
When you say quick, what is quick? Too quick for a long country table but fine for small desk? Quick initial and grabby but slow to recoat?
Quick as in 1 hour or quick as in single cut of shellac?I'm thinking of trying some.ThanksBoiler
Boiler,
I have not used the polyrmerized product, but have used the regular tung oil on some small jobs. It did what I expected. A little elbow grease and you get a very nice satin finish that is warm to the touch and smells wonderful.
The nice thing about pure tung oil for me is I kind of look forward to using it again
LV have a pretty good track record and stand behind everything they sell.Don
Don,
LV regular tung oil is pure tongue oil? Or did I get confused?
In any event could you describe how one would go about applying it? I've wanted to try it for some time now.
Thanks in advance,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
The regular tung oil is pure tung oil. The polymerized version is preheated to accelerate curing. This preheating thickens the oil, so they thin it 50% with mineral spirits.
To apply, I just pour a little into a shallow pan, dip both hands into the oil and start rubbing it into the work. Keep a piece of wet & dry sand paper about 400 or 600 gerit close by. If your fingers detect any rough spots or you notice any scratches, you can work them out on the fly.
Set the piece aside for an hour or so, then start vigorously buffing with a soft cloth. You want to create enough friction to start the curing process deep in the wood. Do this two or three times and you start to see the depth and character of the tree you started with.The true hand rubbed experience. I read once that penetrating oils need to be applied once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and once a year for the rest of your life. A bit extreme, but considering that we are trying to preserve a bit of tissue that was never intended to see the light of day, then maybe that is what we have to do.Get a 500ml can and try it. It won't be the worst $15.00 you have spent. I don't know who else sells a true pure tung oil.Don
Don,
Tell you what, I'm gonna try that.
Thank you very much,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Yes You can varnish or urethane over any of them.
Dan
Thanks,
now can you recommend the most water resistant one?
Appreciate it
Maurizio
well "I" would use urethane interior, the exterior ones stay pretty soft which you may not want in this location. My sharpening station was finished with Varathane professional,I have done hundred's of bar table tops with it and a few bar tops, holds out water very well and supper durable.Dan
Great,
thanks for the advice. I will do just that.
Maurizio
Did you read what Steve wrote you? You may already have the varnish on it.Gretchen
What Gretchen said. After my long winded answer, I'll just note that if you used the Formby's or other wiping varnish tung oil finish you might as well just add more of the same--it would be quite water resistant, as are all oil-based varnishes. Wiping varnishes might want about 9 coats (equivalent to 3 brushed on coats) for full protection.
Now to be clear, no varnish, not even the most water resistant isn't meant for continuous water contact--ie. don't use it as liner for a pond for the sharpening stone, but there shouldn't be a problem with water splashed about while sharpening.
Steve ,where you born a rude condescending bully, or did that many years to hone?? there is ALWAYS!!! more then one right way !Its his choice to make.
DAn
I'm confused, I just suggested that if he were already using a varnish type tung oil he might as well continue it. Now doesn't conflict with your, correct, suggestion that he could use any varnish over the tung oil finish, which ever kind it was. No put down of any sort intended.
Confused?? did you really think He was going to us it as a pond liner? did all your insults to the manufacture's of the finishes (true or not) really help or give the info needed? it was a simple question that deserved a simple answer.
It is great that you have all this book smart wisdom , your knowledge of proper terms is very impressive. ,but you seem to love to insult and talk down to any one who does not agree with you,and say things like- you can not use it as a pond liner-which plainly is an insult to others intelligence or lack of it,it seems in your opinion?! Okay I would like to say that I buy that is just your scene of humor,but then I would be lying to Myself,and you,plus if it is that's sardonic humor not sarcastic humor-hence the bully statement!So from this I hope you understand its not Me I think your statements rude to ,but to the person who does not know the answers to the question.P.S I will be learning this craft till the day I die,I feel sorry for those like you that know every thing .no wonder your are so bitter,being the only person who is right must suck.
Dan
I'm still not sure how you read insults into anything I said. Pointing out that a manufacturer calls a mixture of oil and varnish a tung oil finish isn't an insult nor is saying that another calls varnish by the same name. In fact, what they are doing is substituting superior products for one (pure tung oil) that has an undeserved positive reputation. I'm not aiming to insult anyone.
Since lots of people do use Formby's Tung Oil Finish, which is a quite respectable non-poly varnish, it saves a lot of money if he had been using that already and could just apply more coats to get all the protection he needs. That's worth saying.
The other point is that forum answers aren't just for the original poster. The should also address other issues that lurkers may have. Also, when we give just "the simple answer" there still is no basis for readers to know whether the advise is good or not since there isn't supporting information. And, since it isn't usually possible to know exactly what readers know or don't know, answers should have information that may seem obvious to some in the hopes that it might be a useful revelation to another. That's not meant as a put down in any fashion, just an attempt to address a wide audience.
you just told Me how you are right in all counts ,and no matter what !! you always will be. i thought we answer simple questions with simple answers when due which normally leads to more questions,hence creating a thread? But you can answer every thing in one shot. plus If I hear the difference between varnish and urethane from you one more time my head is going to burst. Being some one who went to school for finishing and has done alot of different types of finishing as a living ,and some one who has taught it .Your knowledge of much other then Varnish , Shellac and oil finishing,seem pretty limited,and I know I am not the only person who "Knows" this.
You know big words and web sites big deal.
Take a nice deep breath and chill.
Were you not the guy a while back who said he was misunderstood, didn't like the way he was being treated and was going away? Glad to see you're back.
You've let everyone know about your background and experience many times over. That's a good basis for knowledge. It's good to share.
I too have many years of finishing, teaching and lecturing on the subject. I like to think, like yourself, I know a little bit about the subject. However pounding your fist on the podium and throwing a temper tantrum serves no rational purpose to anyone least of all yourself.
You profess to be a professional; then why not act like one?
Steve has advised and helped a lot of people here. If his posts bother you, just hit ignore.
Peter
http://www.petergedrys.com
Peter,well put tank you!
Dan,
In response to the email sent to me;
For some reason Steve's answers and opinions bother you. Your answer is to attack him. Did you ever notice that he does not respond in kind and unfailingly remains a gentleman? You may know wood finishing, but you could certainly pick up that little tidbit from him.
Peter
there was no attack and the gentlemen part,Hahahahah thanks I needed a good laugh.
It's hard to imagine where this animosity comes from.
As an impartial reader, I don't see anywhere in Steve's posts (in either this thread of the others he has contributed to) where he could be construed a "bully," or insulting to anyone or anything.
Like everyone else on this forum, Steve is giving his opinions about questions that are asked. And, unlike a lot of us here, his are based on sound knowledge..
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
and the first of many sheep to come and tell Me how awesome the the mighty Steve is, If what you say is so,you have never disagreed with Him or you have blinders on I would image both are true.
Dan,Your attacks at Steve are not acceptable.Don
well either where His earlier attacks on Me.Sorry if You are offended!
but I believe strongly in - You get what You give!!!!!Dan
You haven't offended me, but you have earned my very first ignore.Don
Yes there is, BUT at least he can make the choice on the basis of FACT, which it turns out, he needed. That is one way to learn to make a choice, believe it or not. Gretchen
Decisions based on fact: just like a woman.
the FACT is that he needs to Brush or Spray some Varnish or urethane over what He has to achieve what He was asking in his original post!! or did You Not read Steve,s post just before Yours that I am replying to.
and Please do not talk to Me about being open minded as I have seen so many post with you and your God (Steve) there. Neither of you are open minded ,and the only choice is your choice!
Geez. What a wood guy!! There has been nothing rude in this thread except you.Gretchen
Dan,
Just curious here, why Steve?
There are many bright people here, do they all upset you? This is a thread about Finishing over tung oil, nothing more nothing less. Lighten up my friend, I would think the OP would appreciate as many CHOICES in terms of answers.
I understand your simplistic approach towards life of which you have already professed, Maybe all is not simple here.
Tom.
gofinger ,hee hee , He upsets Me because He is condescending and rude not because He is Bright, He is the ONLY one to upset Me so far ! Also (in My opinion if the E icon was not beside his name He would be a great source of info),but He knows He has a sort of veto power and abuse's the heck out of it.Dan
Dan, thanks for clearing that up.
Tom.
coming from someone who dropped there baby on its head that very funny! :)
A bit late reading your post. I will part a sad story of min wax tung oil finish. I built a nice dresser for my wife 25 years ago, and finished it with 6 coats of this finish. Today it is just plain gone, the wood is showing, and it needs to be refinished. I life in higher heat, lots of UV light through windows, and extreme low humidity. I don't think I will ever use that finish again, or other tung oil products. I have some pieces in my house that I finished 45 years ago in varnish (don't ask what kind i was 10) and they are perfect. I find varnish a pain to brush but in the long run it is worth the trouble.
AZMO
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Thanks so much for the input. It's always great to hear different people's opinions and more importantly, acutal experiences. I use the minwax T. Oil on pieces that are not necessarily that precious. It's cheap and easy to apply but you get what you pay for. I'll know not to use it on anything I want to last.
What do you think about the Plymerized Tung Oil from Lee Valley? I've used it on things that I do care to maintain but it's too soon to see if it will stand the test of time.
Thanks again
Maurizio
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