Hi fellow woodworkers. I am in the process of building a large bookcase which will be contained in an existing closet space which I gutted to hold the bookcase. I am building 3 separate carcasses and will them move them into the closet opening and join the 3 together. I will then add the trim. Since the 3 carcasses are each large I wanted to finish the individual parts prior to assembling each carcass. The finish steps include dye, gel stain, shellac sanding sealer, lacquer top coat and rubbing out to a final gloss.
Typically all parts are assembled prior to any finish being applied but with the size of the parts it is much easier for me to finish each part prior to assemble. My question is whether this can or should be done. What are the potential problems. I have already determined that the yellow glue that I am using will adhere quite nicely to the the shellac sanding sealer. I am going to test adhering to a lacquer finish next.
Is this a good idea to do this or really dumb. What problems could I have and need to avoid. Thank you all for any advise that you can offer.
SteveT
Replies
If you're gluing anything, you'll want to mask off the areas of the glue joints so your glue will adhere correctly.
Personally, I like to build my large projects in subassemblies that I can handle by myself. I assemble everything to verify the fit, then break it back down to subassemblies for finishing.
Well, I'm a finisher by trade and wood worker by occasional inspiration. So, my response will be from that perspect.
I should think that the gel stain and particularly the lacquer topcoat would be vastly easier in pieces. Both are difficult to manage on really large projects. So, your idea makes a lot of sense from that perspective.
I guess the one caution I'd make would be the joints. Not only is there the glue bonding issue that's already been mentioned. But, more importantly to a finisher like me there is the issue of keeping the Shellac and lacquer out of the joints so that they reassemble tightly without ending up being too tight.
Depending on how the case is constructed and how you intend to mask off the joint areas... keep in mind that the solvents in the gel stain will attack masking tape adhesive and leave a gummy mess in most cases. The size and scope of the mess can be managed by being very careful But, in my experience there ends up being an issue at least some adhesive residue left behind when the masking tape is removed.
Finally, let me drop the idea of tinting your yellow glue. Furniture factories and other mass production operations will sometimes resort to tinting their wood glue to approximate the color of the finished product. Granted, they are intending to finish the products after it's glued rather than before as you're contemplating. But, believe me, it can work spectacularly well if the color is just right. I've watched dried glue on the surface of an Oak chest literally disappear to the naked eye after stain was applied and wiped clean. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Usually, though, they don't try for perfect color matches. A dark umber is very versatile and for that reason is used widely because it hides reasonably well across a fairly wide spectrum of finish colors. The added benefit is that the colored glue is easy to spot (and remove) on the raw wood. Much easier than dried yellow glue in my experience. And of course it's always better to get to the dried glue before stain highlights it. Which is where tinting the glue comes in handy in either case...
Any kind of water-soluable colorant should work. I'd advise testing the finished product though. And I wouldn't add more than 5% total of whatever the coloring agent is to the glue... just to help maintain the adhesive properties of the glue. But, again... I'd still test it. I've had glue suppliers (Borden's if my memory serves me correctly) custom tint glue for my employers. More recently I used some art type water-based colorant like you'd find in a school classroom.
Hi Kevin,
I'm very interested in learning more about your career as a pro finisher. Are you willing to tell us more?
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I'll trade you. I've been dying to know how your rain sticks turned out! I've made one more since that first one that I posted in the Gallery. One of these days I'll have to take pics of it and post it. It's sitting right here in my living room... So, I'm still wanting to find out as much as I can from anyone else who has made one out of wood. I've got a variety of exotic wood that I keep buying to make more. But, so far I've only made the two. And frankly that's vastly more interesting to me than talking about my finishing experience. That's my job. Rain sticks have managed to infect me with a fever akin to gold fever or the Orchid Fever I've heard about among Orchid fanatics. I either need to make more or seek professional help. I'm not sure which just yet... LOL
Deal?
Along similar lines, I am almost finished building one of those Philadelphia secretaries that was in FWW a few years ago, by Bird. It is Walnut. Mine is a little fancier, with satinwood crossbanding around the drawers and bookmatched veneer on the desk lid. Anyway, I have dry fit but not yet glued in all the small dividers for the gallery. I was thinking of applying a thinned coat of linseed oil to pop the grain on the whole project, before spraying shellac. (Not planning to stain at all.) It seems like it would be virtually impossible to rub off the oil unless I do it prior to assembly. Would it be OK to use blue masking tape to cover the last 1/8 inch of the end of each piece (that will slide into dados) and apply oil first, then glue up and shellac after glued?
I have already assembled and glued theframe and panel doors. What about gettting excess oil (and filler) out of the recesses around the raised panel?
Also, regarding grain filler, I am going to use walnut colored por-o-pac (silex) on the flat outsides of the cabinet, the drawer fronts, and the desk surface (after the oil). I was not going to mess with filler on the gallery, except for the small drawer fronts.) At the lower end of the sides are moldings, before the bracket feet and at the upper end of the upper bookcase the sides also meet moldings. How to you reach the burlap or whatever into those corners to remove all the excess grain filler without leaving a small line of filler on the surface? I have tired a shoe brush in the past and it leaves too much residue. Thanks for the advice.
Jay
Would it be OK to use blue masking tape to cover the last 1/8 inch of the end of each piece (that will slide into dados) and apply oil first, then glue up and shellac after glued?
Probably. I've never used it in that kind of application. My concern would be the adhesive. Mineral Spirits (your presumed reducer for the linseed oil) effectively attacks many contact adhesives.
If you want to be safer then go with vinyl automotive masking tape. Not only are they designed with adhesives that are resistant to most solvents, but being vinyl backed instead of crepe paper backed there isn't anything for the solvent to soak into. Which is probably one of the big reasons that automotive masking tape resists solvents better.
I can't really help you much with the grain filler. I've only played with it. And even then it was just on flat surfaces. Nobody wants to use grain filler in the market in which I work, nor in any of the markets where I've worked previously.
Thanks Kevin for spending the time to respond and for the good advice. The joints on the case are pretty simple construction (ie rabbit and dado) so I think I will be OK there. With regard to tinting the glue, I will have to try that. It sounds like a really good idea. I'll also have to go get some of that vinyl back tape that you mentioned in another response. Good luck on your rain sticks. I don't know what they are but it sounds like you are hooked.SteveT
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