Help!
I am building a bed out of walnut. I have spent quite a bit of time on it and it is now ready for a finish. Before I proceed, I am looking for some validation and some advice. First the validation…
Part of the bed was made from walnut that was air dried as opposed to the rest that was kiln dried. The problem is the air dried stuff has a very pink tone. I am working with dyes on this stuff to try to get the color of these pieces close enough to the rest of the wood. Then I plan on staining the entire thing. Does this make sense?
Next, is there a way to minimize the stain absorption on end grain? There are several cove cuts (near the bottom of the corner posts) and I am concerned that the end grain exposed in the cove cuts will stain considerably darker and I don’t want this.
Last, in my sample boards I am seeing a bit of blotching from the stains and, I think, from the dyes, too. I was under the impression that walnut would not blotch. I sanded everything to 220 before applying any dye or stain. Is this typical? Will a wood conditioner help this, even with the dyes?
Any input is appreciated.
Drew
Replies
Walnut isn't a blotch prone wood in my experience, though I have sometimes found figure that might be interpreted at blotching I guess. I'd want to be very sure my stain was fresh and well stirred.
Your basic approach seems sound. First a dye to tie the colors together--amber is one choice to consider. I can't really imagine needing conditioner with a dye on walnut. You can then partially seal this with a wash coat of dewaxed shellac, with perhaps one extra pass with the rag on the end grain to act as a conditioner. Pigment only stain (glaze) can then be applied to deepen the color.
Top coat with shellac--garnet works well with walnut in my opinion.
I much prefer the look of air dried walnut, to commercially kiln dried (ie. steamed) walnut. Kind of too bad you have to go for the lowest common denominator.
It's sad to hear that the complexity and beauty of the air dried walnut will be deadened to look like the KD stuff with its steamed sameness throughout. The air dried stuff around here (central CA) has all kinds of subtle reds, purples, and browns that are blanched to brown in the KD stuff you find in the hardwood stores.
Telemike, air dried walnut is usually more interesting concerning its colour than kiln dried when freshly cut and finished, that's true.
Give twelve months with only a clear finish of some sort and the kiln dried and air dried stuff in one piece of furniture will be indistinguishable from each other. They'll both have mellowed to the same colour tones. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
In my last answer I didn't occur to me to expand a bit and offer some finishing advice in general.
There are obvious things that already have been said, such as making sure there are no oily or greasy spots, and no localised patches of glue, etc., that could cause a blotching effect, and there valid tips for choking end grain with a bit of thin shellac (or other types of thinned polish) to prevent greater uptake of dye or stain on end grain.
Incidentally an alternative to using shellac (or other polish) on end grain to reduce colourant absorption is to use the solvent that the dye or stain is mixed with. If the dye is water based then water alone can be applied to end grain immediately prior to dyeing- this essentially has the effect of diluting the colourants strength. Similarly, white spirits (mineral spirits) can be used with oil based dyes and stains. This technique is more difficult with spirit based dyes where the solvent is alcohol or cellulose thinners (or similar) that evaporate very fast-- you can find it difficult to get the colourant on quick enough before the solvent has evaporated. Another way of getting spirit based dyes on and controlling the uptake is with a spray gun. This way the dye can be misted on rather than flooded which gives good control but not a great deal of absorption.
Lastly, I find most walnuts, whether European or American black, air dried or kiln dried tend to be a bit cold and dead looking if the only finish is a clear polish, particularly if the polish is a water based one where for the most part these polishes have a cold, dead and blue cast to them anyway. Oil based varnishes give a bit of an ambering or yellowing to the colour which helps, and even a clear shellac has a bit of warming to it, and coloured shellacs can add more again. Nitro-cellulose type polishes including the pre-cat and post-cat types warm walnut a little.
On the whole I think walnut looks best if it's warmed up a bit at the beginning and one way this can be done is to use a brown dye such as a quarter or half strength Van Dyke brown prior to any polish. A little red dye can be added to the mix along with yellow if desired, and a touch of black will deepen the colour too.
This dye can be used on the mix of air dried and kiln dried stuff that's on this bed, and although there is some difference in the colours of the wood types now it'll be found within about 12 months (as I said earlier) no-one will be any the wiser about which was which. I'd be cautious at this stage of using different colouring routines for the differently dried woods because although you might be able to get the colours to pretty much blend now it's likely that in 8- 12 months the differences caused by the different colouring routines will become apparent again. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 1/14/2006 7:21 am by SgianDubh
While I don't have your depth of experience, I think you are a bit too pessimistic about the difference between air dried and kiln dried. Absolutely, the wonderful colors, the pinks and purples in air dried will mellow to brown, but air dried seems to retain more figure or variation in those colors, it won't be multi-hued, but it will still be interesting, with variation in shade being retained. In contrast, and I don't think it is so much the drying but the steaming that is most often used in commercial kiln drying of walnut, kiln dried coloration often seems almost uniform with no life--few differences in either shade or hue. Maybe it is that the air dried walnut I have used has come from sources which have selected better logs to begin with. (Good Hope Hardwoods or Groff & Groff)
Not pessimistic really Steve, I'm just realistic about what I've experienced happens. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Quite a leap of faith to finish the piece and wait a year.
Do your comments about the color tending toward a common hue also apply to the vagaries within a KD piece, for example sapwood and heartwood, or are they strictly applicable to the case of AD vs KD?
Ah now SpecialK, dealing with sapwood is a different story, so my comments applied to the heartwood of both kiln dried and air dried walnut.
The sapwood is the dickens of the job to get to match the rest of the plank(s) on a long term basis. You either get it right to start with and as the heartwood mellows it sticks out, or you try and guess a colour that the heartwood will go to and stain the sapwood to that, which means it sticks out at the beginning, and later on too if you guess wrong, ha, ha.
Unless you're into commercial type multi-step finishing where the original wood colour is often pretty much dyed, stained, glazed and toned out followed by an almost paint like polish over the top I find it easiest (if at all possible) to deal with sapwood by not using it in the first place. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
The blotching could very well be from oil/sweat mix from your hands or possibly having traces of glue residue on your hands when touching those areas. If you can rule out the latter, the former can be remedied with a wipe-down with denatured alcohol.
The end grain problem may be solved by sanding it to one or two grits higher. in your case from 220 to 320-400. Hope this helps.
Drew, I too have appreciated the pinks, purples and other various tones and streaks in air dried walnut. When compared to kiln dried, especially steam-kiln dried walnut, the contrast is huge. But in my experience, the contrast becomes less when the oil/varnish finish that I use is applied. Attempting to make the kiln dried wood look like airdried by introducing a pigment doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Most of the air dried walnut I've seen has color streaks, the stain or dye will be uniform, and just look like walnut with a stain, not that great. I used a Cherry tinted Watco once, but never again. Kiln dried walnut which is sanded and finished well, looks great. This could become an example of the solution to a problem becoming worse than the problem. Bill Lindau
Bill:
I am (unfortunately for some) going the other way with the dyeing and moving the AD pinks closer to the KD color. I agree that the AD stuff is more interesting, but the unadjusted combination will not look good on this piece. Lesson learned about the difference between KD and AD stock.
Thanks to all for your comments.
SpecialK,
I just finished some AD walnut that had all kinds of hues in it. I used Watco oil under a coat of poly. Once it was oiled, the hues seem to disappear which disappointed me to some extent, but the oil did bring out the rich color that I normally associate with walnut. Before dying anything, can you try putting a couple of coats of oil on some scraps to see how the AD & KD compare?
If you want to speed up the aging process, why not try the finish on a piece of the KD and AD, let it dry and set in in direct sunlight with half of each piece covered, so you have a reference color? The UV will change it and if you're able to check it at regular intervals, you can note the changes. When you see what you want, you can stop.
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