I am making the fire place mantel in FWW #184 by Mario Rodriguez. His finish is shellac over dye. I’m wondering if I should thin the standard cut of shellac since the surface area’s are so large. I don’t want overlapping strokes to show. Also I am wondering if using a wipe on poly would be easier and show just as well.
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Replies
Personally I like shellac better than wipe on poly. Without a doubt wipe on poly is very easy to use.
Shellac in my opinion, will give you a better look. You may need to practice a bit if you are using it for the first time.
Thinning it out is required if using amber or clear as they are three pound cuts. There is a handy guide on the side of the can.
SealCoat is blonde shellac and is a bit thinner since it is a two pound cut. I work with this unthinned but you can also cut this down if you are more comfortable.
The only way to get any experience working with shellac is to dive in. It will sand nicely and you can rub it down when dry with 0000 steel wool for a soft glow if you'd like.
BTW, guess who made that dye color for Mario.
Peter
PeterI really like the color of the mantel and have the dye colors on hand. I'll practice with the shellac. Thanks for your help.
My newbie experience is that, on large panels, shellac more than tends to window pane at the wet edge as you proceed across the panel. That leaves you with a thick mark at each "wet edge" location, across the panel.
One way to avoid this is to use Frenchy's "thin it to 1# cut and slop it on" technique. This avoids the lines, but it builds a film very slowly and it puts runs at every piece edge. I think that Frenchy deals with this by making up a slop pan for large panels using heavy duty aluminum foil and just letting it run over the sides into the "pan".
Padding (not french polishing, but a similar technique - sans mineral oil) advocates will tell you that by using a swirling pattern you can avoid the window pane effect, since you obliterate the wet edge as you move across the piece. This is next on my agenda to try.
What I've discovered is that it's an artistic or crafts technique and not a science, and requires experimentation and determination to learn by yourself. I practice on the backs of full and partial sheets of plywood that I am using for other things. I haven't got it down, yet, but I'm having fun.
The nice thing about shellac is that you can scrape (drips and runs) and sand (brush marks and swirls) your mistakes away in short order and just try again.
Hope this brief set of observations by a total new guy helps.
Mike D
I will use a light cut and there are some large parts that get hidden that I can practice on. Thanks
Mike,
With due respect to you;
The method you spoke of is looked at as silly as peeing into a strong wind. Thinning it the way it's described is far less than a one pound cut. It's practically all alcohol.
The person who loudly expounds on this has been taken to task by not only myself but many other very knowledgeable people in the knots forum.
He loves to hear the sound of his own voice so to speak and loves to dominate any conversation dealing with shellac. Most people who have actually tried to converse sensibly with him no longer do so. It's like peeing into the wind.
I've actually mentioned this method to some other pros and the basic response was holding their sides laughing.
However he is persuasive. Look at his profile and see what he does for a living.
When he describes his "fool proof" method, he adds that it works so well because he "has no talent etc."
That's the one thing I agree with.
Keep working with it and you'll see your technique will improve. It just takes a little practice.
Have fun.
Peter
Good Morning Peter!
Nothing like a good laugh to get my morning started - thank you.
I don't use Frenchy's method anymore, but he DID get me started using the stuff once again, so I give him credit for that, and you have to admit that it is practically risk free - well maybe some risk from passing out from all the fumes, but no real risk to your project of the moment, and, well, it did get me started using shellac.
I love this forum - great for advice and great for laughs.
Best Regards,
Mike D
Hi Mike,
You're right, you can't "ruin" raw wood with all that alcohol.
I agree, the forum is a great, I laugh every time I see one of his postings.
Peter
Hi again, Pete,
I apologize for provoking you,again, but when I reread my response, I appear to be putting Frenchy down, and I'm not. Forgive the long response, but I felt guilty for being so feckless.
I know that his approach is not classic, but please consider this - from a beginner's point of view - one without anyone near to provide hands on critique on technique, and/or instructions for rescuing a project from disaster - Frenchy's premise that shellac doesn't have to be a high risk medium is very appealing. There's real power in the idea that if you try shellac and screw it up, and further, that if you just can't make shellac work for you, then wash it off without damage to your project and try something else entirely
My read from Frenchy is that shellac can be a very forgiving medium for the beginner if he/she doesn't get hung up on creating the perfect film right from the beginning. So, as a skeptical beginner, and one that had prior bad experience with shellac, I tried Frenchy's method on something that wouldn't ruin my day if it didn't work, and darned if it didn't work pretty well. And the piece that I finished has been in pretty hard use for the past 3 months, and still looks pretty good.
It's not what I use today. Based on further experimentation and the generous advice from you and others, I now brush 2# cut direct from the BullsEye can with decent results on small pieces. I much prefer this more traditional method's faster film build and less mess. My technique sucks on large panels and I'm trying my hand at padding in an attempt to remedy that, but I am using shellac today because of Frenchy's no risk advise, and as a result, am experiencing the terrific clarity in color, grain, and finish that shellac provides.
Keep the advise coming - it is generous in the extreme for knowledgeable folks like yourself to take the time to share your knowledge and passion with us.
Mike D
Mike,
Check out the discussion in Knots on finishing a maple floor (or staining maple). There is a lively discussion yet again.
It is obvious the rest of the people here who finish just can't get it right, except for one that is.
Peter
Hi Pete,
It's like the old radio show "The Bickersons". Good entertainment, anyway.
Mike D :)
Wow Peter, kinda comin' right at poor Frenchy there! :^)
As you probably know I have done my share of "pissin' in the wind" with him on varied subjects so I won't say I feel badly for him. My favorite is his insistence that anyone who pays more than $1.00 a b/f for cherry and walnut is a fool. I can't remember who it was that finally got tired of that particular song and dance and offered to give him 3 times that for several thousand b/f of either or both. Frenchy could have made an easy five grand just by going to his wonder supplier and ordering it delivered to the other guy. For some reason he wouldn't do it, something about it being too much of a hassle and if he was going to get lumber for someone else he deserved full market value of $5 or $6 b/f.
Anyway, regarding shellac application and the difficulty avoiding built up edges, one beautiful thing about shellac is its full burn in. The way I look at it the only coat that matters is the last one. So why not use a 2# cut to build the finish sanding lightly between coats and then when you have a sufficient amount on, sand it dead flat with no worries about witness lines, and finish up with a light wipe-on coat to bring the shine back? Or just continue the sanding and rubbing process until you get the gloss level you want.
Rob
Hi Rob,
Rest assured that was hardly "coming at him" I had my diplomatic hat on.
PG
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