Sorry if this is a repeat of the same ol’ finishing question. Here goes:
I am making a harvest (farmer’s) drop leaf table with curly maple. It came out very very nice, even if I say so myself.. :-)..
But now tha really hard part… finishing:
Stain: I opted to use an oil base analine dye stain from Mosers. I used BLO and gum turpentine to make the stain mixture which is 1 cup BLO, 1 cup gum turpentine, and 2 tsps stain mix) part. I used oil based analine dye stain because I liked the way the oil based dye stained the wood better than the water based dyes. I actually used 3 coats of this mixture.
Finish: Now I want to get a richer tone, so now I am thinking about using a wipe on poly (Minwax) about 4 coats and then 2 – 3 coats of wipe on varnish mix.
Can I apply a wipe on poly over the stain mixture of BLO and gum turpentine?
Can I, or more appropropriately, can I or would I benefit from applying final finish coats of a wipe on varnish mix over the wipe on poly, can I put that over the wipe on poly?
Replies
spitfire,
I'm putting on a Jeff finish on an oak bookcase. I've applid the water based stain and the next step is Watco (or the equivalent), seal with shellac, gel stain for depth of color and I'll use the minwax wipe on poly. So maybe you want a shellac coat and gel stain? Also, it would seem the wipe on poly would be more than adequate.
never had much luck with shellac, dires too quickly. Do you brush on then sand or wipe on, I after ?
o
spitfire,
I've done it both ways(brush or wipe on), in this case it's just a sealer coat before the gel stain...so I'll wipe on with a piece of old tee shirt. Likewise, with the wipe on poly, I'll dip and squeeze the tee shirt and put a thin coat...no way can it drip..and it comes out perfect.
First poly is varnish. The correct name for "poly" is polyurethane varnish. Poly refers to the resin mixed with the oil when the varnish is made. Other resins used are phenolic and alkyd. So, both are varnishes. There is no reason to use one and then the other. Non-poly varnishes tend to give a clearer finish and I prefer them to any poly varnish.
Any varnish can be made into a wipe-on varnish by mixing varnish and mineral spirits in a 50/50 ratio.
Yes, you can put any type of oil based varnish over your dye. Just let it fully dry.
Howie,
thanks for clearing this up. I have not ah dmuch luck with wipe on varnish, it seems I pout on many coats but it never buidls up a very nice loomk to it.
How many coats do you apply,
Do you wait 20 mintes after applying and then rub out? Or do you wipe on and off at the same time, if you know what I mean. Directions on MinWay wipe on poly seem to imply one get the rag wet, applies the poly, and wipes off all at the same time? basically no waiting.
Here is something that should help. A friend of mine put it together years ago and it has worked well for many.
QUOTE
There are a number of suggested application regimens that are totally subjective. The number of coats in a given day, the % of cut on various coats, which coat to sand after, when to use the blade and a whole host of other practices are all minor differences between finishers. There are some things that I consider sacred when applying a wipe-on finish.
If you are making your own wipe-on the mix is scientific - thin. I suggest 50/50 with mineral spirits because it is easier to type than any other ratio and easy to remember.
The number of coats in a given day is not important. Important is to apply a wet coat with an applicator and merely get it on. Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. The applicator can be a paper towel, half a T-shirt sleeve or that one sock left after a load of washing. Then leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.
Timing for a second coat involves the pinkie test. Touch the surface with your pinkie. If nothing comes off you are ready for another coat. If was tacky 5 minutes ago but not now, apply your next coat just as you applied the previous coat. Remember, you are wet wiping not flooding. After applying the second coat, let it fully dry for 48 hours. Using 320 paper and a sanding block ligthtly sand the surface flat. Now, begin applying more coats. Do not sand between coats unless you have allowed more than 24 hours to elapse since the prior coat. The number of coats is not critical - there is no critical or right number to apply. For those who need a rule, four more coats on non-critical surfaces or six more coats on surfaces that will get abraded seems to work.
After your last coat has dried at least over night you will have boogers in the surface. You should not have marks in the surface because you ignored application flaws. You may have dust, lint and, if you live in Texas, bug legs. Use a utility knife blade at this point. Hold it between your thumb and forefinger, near the vertical, and gently scrape the surface. Gentle is the important word - no harder than you would scrape your face. If you start scraping aggressively you will leave small cut marks in the surface. After you have scraped to the baby butt stage gently abrade the surface with 320 dry paper or a gray ScotchBrite. Clean off the surface. Now, leave the area for two hours and change your clothes. Apply your last coat with a bit more care than the previous coats and walk away.
An anal person is going to have a tough time with this process. Missed spots have to be ignored. Wet wipe, don't flood. Scraping to babies butt smooth means scraping no harder than scraping a babies butt. Ignoring any of these will leave marks that are tough to get out. Getting these marks out requires some agressive sanding to flatten out the surface and starting over.
Jim Kull
END QUOTE
Finally, It works better to use a gloss varnish for all coats except the last. The flatteners in semi-gloss and satin tend to rapidly fall out of suspension when the finish is highly thinned. If you want a non-gloss finish, use it only on the final coat or two and be sure to stir the material frequently or you will end up with cloudy streaks.
Come back if the above has not answered your questions.Howie.........
thanks!!!
Howie,
If I might, I have a follow up question. I prefer to stick with the varnish/mineral spirits through the entire process but want to end up with a semi-gloss finish. Am I right in assuming I can achieve this with some 0000 steel wool ?..is it too much work to achieve? ..is there something I can add to the varnish/ms for the last coat or two?
Also, I did have a pita with the gel stain (bartleys)..it was drying very quickly and only a small area could be done at a time before wiping off. Is there a fromula for the gel stain...or maybe just simple stain with a damp rag? thanks
To get to a semi-gloss final finish, use semi-gloss varnish to mix up for your final coat. Completely stir up the flatteners which will have settled into the bottom of the can. Stir 100 strokes in one direction and 100 in the other. Pour enough of the stirred up varnish into a separate can to make 1/2 of the finish you need. Pour a like amount of mineral spirits into the can and again mix thoroughly. Use a fresh applicator rag and re-stir the mixture every couple of minutes. If the sheen is too high after it dries, let it fully dry for 3-4 weeks and then rub it down with a gray scotchbrite pad rubbing in the direction of the grain. But, only do this after the finish has fully cured.
You could also just use the gloss for the final coat and after letting it dry for 3-4 weeks, sand with 400 W&D paper using mineral spirits or water as a lubricant. Be careful as it will cut fast and you may end up going through the finish. Then finish off by using the gray scotchbrite pad.Howie.........
Howie,
Thanks, I'm going to put that in the memory bank. So far I've put on the two wipe on coats and will wait the 48 hours to let it dry. I'll then give it two more 'walk away coats' and then decide on which of your suggestions to apply.
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