All,
Did a search here and there appears to be little on the topic of ‘Firmer Chisels’. Japanese Woodworker says they are used by carpenters and ship builders but there appears to be fairly minor differences between bench chisels and firmer chisels.
Interested in how others use them…and any other preferences or if the differences between firmer and bench and dovetail chisels are more significant than what is in print. thanks
Replies
"Bench chisel" is actually not a specific type of chisel.
Firmer, bevelled and mortise are the three main types.
Mortise chisels are the stoutest, firmers next, then the thinner bladed bevelled (or paring).
Retailers use many terms that are not necessarily accurate and Western terms are different from Eastern terms and English terms are different from American terms.
There are definite definitions for exaclty what a chisel is but these terms are becoming more vague as our language "evolves".
Lee
Furniture Carver
Prospero has so screwed my account that the e-mail at the top will not work. If you need to e-mail me go through my website.
Lee,
Thanks for removing some of the smoke.
BG
B G ,Firmer chisels are made to accomodate tapered socket handles and are 'beeifer' than the thinner type chisels
They are used for heavy duty chopping of mortices andpockets for mating joints in hard and heavy timbers. They dont have side bevels and usually are rectangular in cross section as well not tapered thicker towards the socket They do not have any 'cant' as some lighter bevelled sided chisels do. Stein.
Stein, BG,
Looking at my "The Complete Woodworker" ed. Bernard E. Jones book, which describes and illustrates the state of the art in woodworking circa 1900, I get the feeling there's a lot of joints we don't do any more,.... I mean when was the last time I did a Fox-wedged Secret Haunch Mortise and Tenon Joint, or a Stepped Tusk Tenon Joint?,...okay never. I get the feeling that firmer chisels were used in these joints where you required lots of stock removal in very precise patterns, and you needed more beef than a bevel edged chisel but not the brute force of "pigsticker" mortise chisels.
I don't know but that's my theory,...Anyway I'll take a new set of each, along with some of those new Lie-Nielsen chisels when they finally come out, and some japanese chisels and a dedicated mortising machine just to be on the safe side. The more tools the merrier!
Maybe someone more expert on hand tools than I can wade in with more thoughts on this subj. Have a good day.
Ed
Ed,
Your argument makes logical sense ...and it's a good idea to buy them all just in case your wrong. I wonder too if the use of saws to remove waste has reduced the need for Firmer chisels and allowed Paring chisels to play a larger role. In Ian Kirby's book he uses the coping saw ...and pares to the line.
Of course, I use the Fox-Wedged Secret Haunch all the time on the front of my draws...and then a high quality 3/4" staple to hold on the back. People see that staple and would never guess there is a Fox up front...
thanks
BG
I had a look at a European tool site. It seems that Firmer chisels start at 16mm wide and go up to 50mm (say 5/8" to 2"), whilst mortise chisels range from 3 to 16mm (say 1/8 to 5/8). Both are designed to be hit with a wood mallet. However, companies like Stanley & Marples with their "split proof" handles make chisels designed to be abused with a framing hammer. Over the years there has been a couple of articles in FWW on chisels and in one the author commented that his firmers were always sharp because they were rarely used. Paradoxicly, this made them the most useful in his shop when he needed to take a fine slice or clean up the bottom of a dado, etc.
One approach is to have 4 sets of chisels: Set 1 are the day to day "abusers" – the ones that you might let a neighbour use – with plastic handles, of courseSet 2 are the beveled edge ones you have tunned for softwood (micro bevel at about 27deg) – you need a full set, though you may skip a size or two once you get above 1 1/4" Set 3 are the beveled edge ones you have tunned for hardwood (micro bevel at about 34 deg) – same size range as for set 2, though preferably with a different handle so you can tell them apart on the bench Set 4 are your mortices and firmers – you don't need every size of these, and as far as I know they don't need to be individually tunned for soft or ward wood.
<grin>
"There is a Fox up front..."
Ed,
I just registered here for one specific purpose . . . .
I freaking loved your wee comment, Funny as feck man!
Brilliant!
BG,
Firmer chisels (rectangular cross section) used to be all that was available, and they were sold in tanged and socketed versions.
It is possible to make any possible thing with a set of firmers, but it is difficult. (Try digging out the corner of a half blind dovetail socket with a non-bevelled chisel)
The bevelled edge firmer chisels came into being about the turn of last century, where the thinner edge doesn't cause as much friction or interference at the corner of the joint, making the job far easier and avoiding unnecessary cutting of the joint.
I have a set of 'bevelled' edge firmers from Nooitgedagt that I bought a couple of years ago, where there is still a fair amount of edge left after the bevel (far more left than most 'modern' chisels). The thick edge has dug into the side of a joint on a few occasions, not nice.
Firmer (rectangular) chisels used to be used for general bench work, and paring was done with a paring chisel if necessary. Paring chisels are very thin and wide, as they're not designed to be used with any force and instead using hand pressure to remove a sliver of wood.
Mortice chisels come in a variety of cross sections (pig sticker, sash mortice, normal mortice, . . . ) and as Lee (?) said, are designed for heavy chopping.
The 'registered' chisels are designed for heavy work, with there being a leather washer between the body of the chisel and the handle whose function is to absorb the heavy shocks produced by the mallet blow, and even out the impact
My chisel of choice remains anything by Eric Anton Berg - he got everything just about right.
Cheers,
eddie
Edited 9/29/2003 5:11:33 PM ET by eddie (aust)
Eddie,
Very informative, appreciate you taking the time to share. I did a google on Eric Anton Berg...not much out there...are these chisels only available in the used marketplace? thanks
Hi BG,
Thanks for your comments.
Berg got swallowed up by Bahco (a Swedish company) a fair few years ago.
They're still plentiful used.
The logo is a shark, and the back of the chisel has the words Eric Anton Berg, Eskilstuna, Sweden inscribed around it, located near the tang.
Jernbogalet were another company based in Eskilstuna and were also excellent.
Cheers,
eddie
Edited 9/29/2003 6:22:13 PM ET by eddie (aust)
BG, if you're looking for Berg chisels now, check Ebay. They come up frequently, however, they usually bring a fairly high priceaka Steve
Dirt,
Thanks for reminding me...I always forget about ebay as a potential source of supply. I've had some good luck on there so far.
I've met some guys who buy and sell used tools at my Sunday tag sale place, but I don't know of anyone who has a used tool store up here. It would be fun to go wandering in a store like that..
BG, I was doing my moring prowl on Ebay, the closest thing I'm going to get to a used tool store out here in the sticks, and came across these old beauties. Need a little work, but thats part of the fun IMHO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3245047346&category=13871
I often wondered how many Knotheads I've bid against over there. My ID is "bier!", it might make an interesting thread to see who is who, just for curiosities sake. Take care,aka Steve
Dirt,
Thanks, think I'll go over to ebay and have a look at what else is there...maybe put a bid in on these chisels..or at least a request for notification.
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