I’m an amateur sawdust maker who’s just starting to move beyond working in pine. In other words, I’ve just discovered sawmills! I’m looking at buying about 30 board feet of maple to glue up a counter for a built-in bookcase. The difference in price between rough and finished lumber would save me around $100 for this project alone.
A planer was pretty far down on my list of tools to get (I still need a bandsaw, dust collection, and drill press among other things) for the shop, so I’d rather not spend a lot of cash at the moment. $500 for the Dewalt 735 is too much, for example. On the other hand, I’m trying to buy as high quality as I can to take me to the next level as my skills improve, so I’d rather not buy garbage now and have to live with it (still kicking myself for not buying a scms instead of the regular chopsaw). If I can’t get something decent in the $200-350 range, I’ll just buy finished lumber for now and keep saving.
Yes, another of those “What should I buy?” postings. 🙂 Searching the various forums here and elsewhere, I’ve seen people recommending the Dewalt 22-580 on the high end of my price range. Is there anything else I should be looking at? I’d prefer to shop locally, since I just have to have it now! 🙂 That limits me to Dewalt, Delta, Ridgid, Hitachi, Craftsman, and Makita (a bit pricey for me) from what I’ve seen.
Thanks,
-Sean
Replies
Take some time and read the reviews posted on Amazon. Compare percentage of postitive to less than positive - it is a statistical method for comparison that I've found yields good information.
Using that method, I ended up with the Makita. I was sure I was going to buy the 2 speed dewalt - but when I read the reviews (dewalt, delta, makita etc...) I was turned off the dewalt. My dad has the $300 delta - it's so noisy I ruled it out. The extra $100 for the Makita was worth it for me.
Currenlty Amazon is giving back $25 for purchases over $200 and the dust chute for the makita is about that much. so for $400 you'll get a great machine - I've had the makita 4 months now. I love it.
Also, I've 3 other makita tools - they are built to last...
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Welcome to my world! let me warn you in advance the joy of a planer.
It's highly addictive. (hello my name is frenchy and I'm a woodaholic)
Run that piece of ugly wood through a planer and see what wonders mother nature can provide for you..
I buy what's called mill run simply because it's cheap and all the really pretty wood comes from Mill run.. (to be real mill run it is wood exactly as it comes off the tree.. not presorted or something)
that mill run wood is where you find burls and fiddleback plus all sorts of other wonders.. Sure you find somethings that are terrible as well real junk but to me that is the fun of a planer!
Now I second the Mikita, not because I have one but because I wish I had one.. I have the Delta and that thing isn't worth the power it would take to blow it to heck!
It's noisy and needs frequent repairs and has been a real disappointment to me..
The Mikita on the other hand is much quieter and seems to be a well made (but flimsey looking) piece. I have a bunch of Mikita tools and I'm happy with them.. The bizarre thing is that Mikita is American made and the Delta is made in China (OK Tiawan)
the really cool thing is that with care you can get a planer to work almost as well as a jointer at making a board flat.. You first need a really flat board to put the warped board on and then need to glue a cleat onto it to hold the second piece of wood in place.. then you very lightly make a pass to establish the high spots and show the low spots. after you have semi flattened one side you flip the board over and making like passes repeat on the second side..
very time consuming but untill you can buy a 12 inch jointer it will work!
"The Mikita on the other hand is much quieter and seems to be a well made (but flimsey looking) piece."Yes it is quiet.What about the looks of the machine give you the "flimsy" feeling. In real life, I don't find it that way at all...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Mark,
No insult intended, all of the benchtops seem flimsey to me, stamped sheet metal in some cases and plastic in others.. (my Delta is a classic example)
Stationary planers like my Grizzly seem far more substanual!
Cast iron should be less flimsy - but it's not portable nor light duty if it's made of cast iron.I wouldn't compare the two. Your expectations of a floor model should not be projected onto a portable unit...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
While that is true, I think that stationary equipment is the logical progression of most wood workers.
> I think that stationary equipment is the logical progression of most wood workers.
I agree about stationary equipment. I also think that equipment makers haven't done such a good job of keeping up with the logical progression of most of us. If they had, we'd see a lot more combination jointer/planers. The heart of both machines is a spinning cylinder with knives on it. Why buy two copies of that expensive assembly?
Separate jointers and planers may have made sense in the old days of factories and big shops, where one employee may be using the jointer while another uses the planer. But unless I'm massively mistaken, the vast majority of us are using our own one-person shops. So that advantage of two machines no longer exists. Instead, it's an advantage to have both functions available in one machine, especially if the shop has to fit into an ordinary garage.
-- J.S.
John,
I can agree with your statement to a point.. For me when I have a really wide board that needs to be flat (and it's wider than my 8 inch jointer) I set it on a board that I know is dead flat and run it thru the planner taking lite cuts on each pass. Get one side flat and flip it over and get the other side flat (actually I alternate sides on each pass.. My known flat boards are marked as such and I glue a cleat at the back of each one. the bottom board must be longer than the board you want flat and if the board is really warped or twisted you could have some problems..
Try it, it actually works!
However when I need to get an edge straight and at 90 degrees I use the jointer. there is no way a 20 inch wide board will ever go through the palnner and if it did how could you ever make sure it stayed at 90 degrees?
Thus I tend to think of the jointer as an edge tool and the planer as a "flat" tool,...
Frenchy, are you familiar with:
http://www.oldwwmachines.com/
Knowing you, I'd expect a 12" Crescent from before WWI would be more your style. ;-)
-- J.S.
> I have the Delta and that thing isn't worth the power it would take to blow it to heck!
Which Delta, the $200 12.5" portable, or the $400 13"?
-- J.S.
John,
the 12.5 inch Delta. would you be interested in the nightmare of that P.O.S.? (PS just to show you how stupid I am I bought two of them! )
frenchy,I think you should qualify why you think the Delta portable is a POS. From your other posts over time, I am assuming you are buying mainly rough cut lumber straight from the mill. And if this is the stock you are pushing through the planer, I would guess it would tear up the polyurethane feed rollers. If that is the case, then a stationary planer (with metal feed rollers) would be the way to go. Did I get it right?
Nikkiwood,
No I'm sorry I never got to that stage, (where wear due to usage was the issue) I bought a planer that didn't have handles and getting handles proved to be an 8 week battle (including a lecture from customer service) only when I threatened to contact Home Depot directly was it ever resolved.. Then the gears jammed and then,.. do we really want to go into these details?The switch was next, Anyway a pin fell out and I waited another three weeks while they sent me a new pin (cost .05 at my local hardware store when I'd waited a week and it hadn't shown up yet).. Currantly the planer is sitting in the shop with the gears again jammed. this time I think they are stripped and since any warrantee has long since expired I think the planer has too.. (actualy I see no real wear on the rollers)
With that tale of woe, I wouldn't be recommending Delta either. It is strange though, that machines come off the production line, and the one that goes to you is crappy, but the one that comes to me is fine. Looks like you should save both time and frustration and consign this thing to the junk heap -- or maybe you could use it for an anchor for one of your boats.
> the 12.5 inch Delta. would you be interested in the nightmare of that P.O.S.?
Well, since you put it that way, probably not. ;-)
I got a 25% off thing in the mail from Rockler, and they carry the Deltas, so I was considering getting one for the 80 year old Doug fir framing lumber that I want to re-mill. I could save $100 on the 13" Delta. But Forestgirl (I think) said it's not much better than the 12.5, and you say that the 12.5 is a POS. Word on DeWalt is even worse, consistent with the rest of their line. So maybe I should just wait and watch OWWM for a while....
Edit: Correction, it was nikkiwood who said that the 13" Delta wasn't better than the 12.5".
-- J.S.
Edited 4/7/2005 2:16 pm ET by JOHN_SPRUNG
I don't really know if this is true, but I've read in woodworking magazines that the finish from a benchtop planer is often better than the finish from a heavy floor model; the benefit of the floor model is that it can process much more wood much faster. If this is true, and my own experience bears it out to some extent, then foregoing the less expensive benchtop until you can afford a floor model doesn't necessarily make sense.
markroderick
bench top planers can finish wood nicer than a stationary machine if you are willing to pay the price.. Bench tops all use disposable blades and they aren't made of absolutely the best metal.. They do dull quickly and if you should recieve a nick the whole set of blades needs to be replaced. Whereas stationary planers you can simply offset the blades and the nick or should a say the resulting groove) disappears..
There are good bench tops out there, Delta isn't one of the good ones
Frenchy : all manufacturing plants have a QC dept , mostly they use random audits.
the plant i used to work in made goods for various buyers and the percentage checked varied between customers according to what level they wanted to pay for.
In the US a 5% defect rate is often acceptable to the mfg as being good enough however in Japan 1 1/2 % is the norm
so if you get a bad item in the US remember there are 4 more out there per 100 but only 1/2 of one per Japanese item . PS I don't know what the Chinese % is
Frenchy, you're wrong about the offsetting knives issue. You can offset the disposable knives in most, if not all, of them. Also, givenk that the knives are two-sided, the cost differential between replacing them when needed and sharpening a set on a stationary planer isn't all that much from the figures I've seen posted.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 4/11/2005 12:03 am ET by forestgirl
Good points, but it seems to me that there is more to it than that.
Many of the industrial planers of today can be equiped with tersa, wigo and spiral cutter heads. Also, most can be retrofited with the same. So the benefits exist with the cutters can range from HSS to Carbide and so are more durable than what typically comes with a bench top model.
A good quality industrial will in my experience give better results over the long run, however, you can buy and discard becntop units when they wear out for years for the cost of a single industrial unit.
It's intersting to me, that the point that keeps getting overlooked, is that to the degree possible, a buyer should focus on getting a jointer and a planer with roughly equal widths. One of the greatest frustrations I have had over the years, has been dealing with pre-planed lumber. Rough and warped in, yileds smooth and warped out. We seem to put a great deal of emphasis on the smoothness of what is coming out, while not addressing the correct dimensioning of what is coming out.
but it seems to me that there is more to it than that. Yes, I know there is; I was simply addressing the inaccuracy in Frenchy's post and adding a bit to it. Actually, I was going to mention the spiral cutterheads with replaceable inserts (the kind where you can turn each little tiny blade to 4 different surfaces before replacing), but I don't know a whole lot about them and didn't have time to Google before posting.
As a general announcement: I don't think any of us are claiming our preferred little benchtop planer is a better way to go than an industrial machine. We're simply addressing the question "First Planer?" as posed in the original post.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
Nor do I think that a stationary tool is the only way to go, all I said is that don't buy the Delta! Benchtops really do have their place in a lot of workshops and given a small tool budget that's what I do is buy a Mikita benchtop.. To me the joy of finding those wonderful pieces of wood out of what appears to be junk wood is the real real joy of woodworking!
I hear a fair amount of positive feedback on the Mikita benchtop, but the negative comments about delta have been repeated here and elsewhere often enough that there must be something to it..
FWIW I currently have the Makita and it works fine. Like most of the benchtop machines, you need to be a little careful feeding the stock through flat to avoid snipe; it takes a bit of practice. I like that the blades are easy to change. Be sure to order the dust hood, which connected to 3" tubing BTW.
I'll get a floor model eventually, but not this year.
And yes, it is amazing to put a piece of rough lumber into the planer (especially after a spousal comment, "what can you make with that junk?"), and see what comes out the other side.
I think your experience with the Delta planer was quite atypical. Many, many, many folks own the various models with excellent performance. Mine leaves a beautiful finish planing everything from alder to white/red oak and exotics. Granted, I haven't run thousands of BF through it, but it seems to hold up pretty well from what I've read.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
If I had actually run thousands of board feet through mine perhaps I'd be a lot more charitable towards Delta. I bought my 20" Grizzly when the Delta turned out to be such a bust. The first two months were just a fight to get it working and then the steady failures caused me to buy the 20" Grizzly..
To be fair maybe my tolerance of Delta was eliminated by the battle I had with their Contractors saw.. I've posted in the past about that battle so I won't bore you to tears repeating it again, let me say that less than 3 years after it's purchase I gave it away, That's right , GAVE it away..
I would have probably been mollified if I hadn't gotten the lecture about religion from the women at their service center. (and the problem still not corrected)
I've posted here and elsewhere about tools that have been wonderful.. I like tools, heck I'm probably a toolaholic. I've got kind things to say about most brands no matter what country they were made in.. Delta just isn't one of those brands..
It's too bad too, Delta used to be a very well respected brand and that is probably the reason I bought the contractors saw in the first place..
Hi Forestgirl - The disposable knives on my Delta 22-580 are indexed and I can't move them laterally more than a gnat's eyelash. Am I missing a trick of the trade to offset them?
Yes, they are on pins, but they can be offset a little in each direction. Thus, if you have a nick (granted, it has to be a small one, LOL) you nudge one knife to the right and one to the left, and you can get some more use out of that side fo the knives.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
It's been a while since I changed blades in the Delta (or used it for that matter) but I'm pretty sure that the blades go on pins. Thus they can't be offset..
That's funny, my Delta 12" planer gives me wonderful results and isn't too loud. Had it for 10 years and it only needed a gear replaced for the depth of cut once. The cut is uniform throughout and is very smooth (unlike some bigger planers I have used.)Seems like diiferent people get different results.
B Near
Knaughty,
Using a 12 inch Delta was what convinced me to buy both of my 12 1/2 inch Delta's so maybe the earlier 12 inch was better? I din't use the 12 inch for very long, it was just over an extended weekend.. I do know a couple of buddies are having trouble getting blades for theirs and set up a grinder to resharpen them..
I think you have your DeWalt's and your Delta's mixed up <g>. The 22-580 is the Delta 2-speed planer. A nice machine, the slower feed-speed for finishing off, especially figured woods.
I think in your situation I'd get the Delta 12.5" planer, no stand, for $199, use the other $150 to get the drill press, and figure on upgrading in two or three years to a bigger planer. I have the Delta 12.5" and have been exceedingly happy with it. The finish is great. Certainly won't be as durable as a stationary planer, but it'll do for now.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forest Girl is right, the Dewalt is DW735 - two speed 13"...
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Whoops, you're right. I meant that. Delta 22-580. Sheesh, too many numbers. At least I can still count to ten on my fingers...
That's about what I was thinking. I can get the Delta 12.5 for around $200 locally. Looks like it'll do the job until I know what I really need.
Hm, too late to pick one up today. It'll have to wait until tomorrow. Should be fun working in maple for a change. :-)
Thanks for all the advice,
-Sean
Ha, ha, ha -- thataboy! Go for broke!
In the meantime, you'll be enchanted with your first planer experience, I'm sure. Drab wood in, beautiful surfaced wood out!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
There are no good planers in the price range you indicate.
The Dewalt 735 is about the only benchtop planer that is suitable for hardwoods. A lot of people who don't know how to use tools have bought it, ignored its care, and have cursed it. I take care of mine and have no problems.
I disagree about the "no good planers" comment. I use my Delta 12.5" benchtop planer for red and white oak, and very recently, for some exotic (very hard) wood that no one has IDd yet. It does a fine job. Will be putting some maple through it next week, and have put quite a bit of alder through it.
Granted, it's not going to last forever, but that's not what he's looking for right now. As long as he doesn't overextend it via too deep a cut, he should be fine.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
GeorgeR said: " There are no good planers in the price range you indicate. The Dewalt 735 is about the only benchtop planer that is suitable for hardwoods...."I strongly disagree with statement (along with thousands of other people I'm sure...). Did you get some commission for that? (LOL!) Please explain what makes your statement true. The vast majority of benchtop planer owners get good service and excellent results from those machines for years. The DW is a nice planer, but still has many of the same faults of other benchtops compared to a stationary machine (universal motor, noise, less power, lighter capacity, shorter duty cycles, shorter life expectancy). It also pushes the price envelope enough where it would force me to seriously consider getting a stationary planer for another $200. Many of the other benchtops cost < $350, which make them a better value IMO.Edited 4/6/2005 8:49 pm ET by scott spencer
Edited 4/6/2005 8:50 pm ET by scott spencer
I had a Delta 12 1/2" planer and ran it till it died -- which was a long, long time. Then I bought the new Delta 2 speed, 13" model -- which is a fine machine, but the extra bells and whistles are not worth the additional money for me, since I never use them anyway.If I were buying again, i would go back to the Delta 12 1/2" -- the cut is excellent, it's lighter and easier to lug around (than the Delta 13"), and it is a whole lot cheaper (but with no loss at all in cutting quality). I know people with a Ridgid, and from their comments, and what I hear around here, it too is a good machine. The newer Dewalt is problematic; some are satisfied with it, others are not. Given the mixed feedback, I think that is a good reason to avoid it -- given the many other planers available. I have no personal experience with the Makita; but like the earlier posters in this thread, those who own it seem to like it.
Actually, if you check the posts on the new DW 735 you will find that the only thing "problematic" is the sprockets which initially kept breaking and DW has fixed this with a new hardened sprocket. I have the 735 and anyone who has had it feels the features far surpass the others. I am not like GeorgeR that feels it is the only one for hardwoods but I do agree that from user standpoint it is great with excellent finishes.
Much as your statement is true because you wrote it, my statement is true because I wrote it.I am glad you are happy with your planer.
Hi George - I'm not trying to stir trouble, but I don't think writing something necessarily makes it true. We're certainly free to write whatever we please, but it's far more useful to the original poster and other readres when we offer some reasons for our preferences. I'm sincerely wondering what prompted such a strong statement. Even if it's only an opinion, what lead to the opinion....nice weather the day you bought it, or some tangible mechanical advantages? Please elaborate what specifically about the DW you feel is superior or what specifically about the other benchtops is inferior.
Edited 4/7/2005 10:25 am ET by scott spencer
For me to write why benchtop planers are not suitable for processing rough hardwoods would imply that those who post 'that they are' are less than truthful.
I wish you would anyway. I tried planing rough stock on a bench top and it tore up the polyurethane feed rollers. What other problems might there be?"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
If it were me then I would take into consideration things like how hard/easy is it to change blades. How much snipe will I get. How often will I use it. If none of these are a problem for you then buy whatever you have in your budget. I had an older Delta and it did a decent job but I did get excessive snipe (the cutterhead can't lock and creates a depression at the beginning and end of a cut). I now have a Dewalt and it does a much better job. That said, I usually buy demensioned lumber and rarely use it but there are those days that it is essential that I have a planer. I use a jointer much more than a planer but a planer as earlier mentioned is a magical machine. A friend once gave me some really dirty old lumber and he couldn't remember what it was except that it was old hardwood that wasn't planed. It was some of the most beautiful black walnut I have ever seen coming out of the planer. Good luck on your purchase
You might also look at the 13" Rigid -which I got for $350. Surveys show it rated at the top, if not THE top unit in its price class.......and better than some higher priced tools. I haven't run teak yet, but plenty of almost as hard material...and with no snipe.
It's absurd to say there are no good planers in that price range. If you hang around here you'll find plenty of people who think spending lots of cash is the only "proper" way to buy tools. Sure, you get a $1500 planer and look down your nose at everyone else, but the reality is that for the vast majority of everyday woodworkers, medium range tools are just fine. We ain't making the Space Shuttle.
i agree Boardman I have had my Rigid for a few years and have ran everything under the sun through it. Luckily i bought mine prior to Rigids warrantee changes. I think prior to '04 the tools came with a lifetime warrantee but now i think its three years. I have had no troubles and my workers ran it with dull blades one week while i was on vacation(which was the death of my previous Delta planer). Good portable planer at a good fair price.
Sean,
Just my $0.02, from someone who's currently borrowing a planer and looking to purchase one in the not-too-distant future...
I've salivated over the DW735 for some time - but $500 is more than I can afford now - so I'm going to wait 'til I can afford it! Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of borrowing someone else's planer until your budget increases.
I like ForestGirl's idea - get the lower-end Delta, and buy yourself a decent floor-standing drill press. No matter what the magazine ratings or buyer evaluations, if you've never had a planer before, you'll be making embarrassing squeals of joy as sad-looking faces come out the other side looking almost ready for finishing.
As for noise - maybe it's just me, but I wear ear protection for almost all of my "heavy" tools - jointer, planer, router (table and freehand), TS, etc. I don't know if you have a dust collection system, but if you don't, then you're probably using a shop vac for DC - another increase in decibels. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I operate any of these tools without ear protection, I'm an idiot. So long story short, I wouldn't rule out a planer just because it's noisy.
Hope that helps,
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I bought the Ridgid 3 times , you see here Home Depot and varous mfgs (bosch ,Dewalt, milwaukee ,ridged etc ) allow you to take their tools for up to 30 days or less & if you are not satisfied bring them back for a full refund which I did soo often I missed the planer not being around so I kept it the last time.
If you can do this in your area you could do your wood and have the fun of using it plus Ridged
comes with a spare set of double edged blades in the deal
Just bought the 13" Delta on Amazon.com for $349. Two speeds. Get the "optional" dust hood.
Love this machine!!!
I have an older Dewalt, the DW733, 12 1/2", two blade. I like it. I wear a big ole pair of ear muffs so noise isn't a problem.
Ken
Mainewoods,
Don't know if it's too late but "WW Journal" has a planer review in this months issue.
Decent review of the latest portables.
John
Not too late. I ended up going the low-tech approach for this project and bought me a new #5 plane and taught myself to sharpen it and another old block plane I had in my toolbox. As in the kind that doesn't have a cord, or even a battery. :-) A lot more work, but the weather was great, and I just set up in my driveway with a radio and a few cold drinks and enjoyed the peaceful *fsssshhhh* of the hand tools all day with no need for dust collection or hearing protection. I still have a lot to learn, but it came out pretty nice.I decided I need to get my shop organized before bringing in any more big tools. And that will have to wait until later on this summer. Needless to say, all the advice here was taken to heart, and will be used when the time comes. Though I did enjoy the feel of the sharp blade of the hand plane taking off paper-thin curls of maple instead of the numbing vibration of a power tool for a change...Thanks,
-Sean
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