First project, no pocket hole jig… how do I join this?
kaitlyn2004
| Posted in Joinery on
Very new, about to start my first project… I don’t have a pocket hole jig, but am looking to build some garage shelving mounted to the wall. A ton of the videos I come across are like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTxRBckenI4
When it gets towards putting the crossbars against the wall-mounted backing, how can I attach it to them? Most of what I’m seeing is pocket holes…
It seems putting the boards on the wall first let you easily build an equal opposite side, plus not needed explicit vertical legs for the back (AND that it actually attaches to the wall…) but then how on earth do I attach the wood?
Replies
First off don't buy a pocket hole jig ever. There are better ways of building.
You can run a screw or nail diagonally into another board without a jig its called toe nailing. Look it up.
Your project probably falls more into the fine home building forum than this one. So you might go there for more help. I think you have a lot of studying to do. Youtube is fine for a quick inspiration but you need to find some decent edited print sources and get down to some serious serious serious studying. Building anything is not necessarily easy and it takes practice+ mistakes. Learn to measure accurately, make and assemble parts square/consistent.
I've built shelves pretty much exactly as the video shows. You really don't need a pocket hole jig -- I didn't.
I'm assuming you are referring to the attachment of the short shelf supports to the back. Those seem to have pocket holes. You can simply drive screws through the short pieces into the back at an angle without pocket holes. It will look slightly more untidy, but that shouldn't matter for these kinds of shelves.
What I do is make each shelf unit first. Long front and back, and however many cross pieces you want. Screw the cross pieces straight through the front and back -- no angled screwing or toe nailing.
If you want three shelves, you now have three long rectangles cluttering up your garage. Have a friend help you lift it up on the wall, fasten near one end, level it, fasten the other end, then to every stud in between. Level it front to back, then attach the front legs. Repeat for the other reassembled shelf units. Add the plywood to each shelf at the very end.
Most of the bloodthirsty shut-ins on the forum here don't have friends to assist, so we can even do this alone. Set a couple of boxes, trash cans, saw horses, etc on the floor, put the reassembled shelving rectangles on top, then screw the back to the wall, then add the front upright supports. Make sure it's level before driving all those screws. Put plywood on that bottom shelf, move your spacers up one level, lay the next reassembled unit on top, attach it to the wall.
I hope this is all clear. It's a great first project. It's a nice feeling to look at something and know you built it.
Also, I think starting tool kits should have a small, 9 to 12 inch level. They are handy for all sorts of things. And cheap. Many will be off, brand new, but you can sort through them and find one that is accurate at the store. After that, get a better quality 2 foot level. Verify that it is actually level before you leave the store. The two footer is better for a project the size of the shelves in your video. There are times a four foot level is great to have, but you can get by with a 2 foot.
I agree that you do not need a pocket hole jig. I have found that the easiest way to do it without a jig is to start with a shallow perpendicular hole (about 1/4" deep) about 1-1/2" from the end of the board. Using that as a starting point, drill the angled hole at such an angle that it exits at about the center of the end. Make sure the angled hole is about the same diameter as the screw so the the screw can spin freely in this hole. Otherwise, the screw may not pull the end of the board tightly to the ledger board (the one mounted to the wall). Also, make sure your screws are long enough to penetrate the ledger board by about 1" or more.
As mentioned above, you can also build the shelves first and then lift them up and screw them to the wall. Of course, you will need either some help or some temporary supports for this.
You could also build the entire shelf system laying on the floor. Then tip it up and screw it to the wall.
I have an old Kreg pocket hole jig I used a few times before I was set up for better joinery. They're not evil, but they're not "fine" either. I like bilyo's last sentence; build it on the floor (or workbench of you have one) then attach it to the wall.
I would suggest using metal framing connectors such as this.
2x4's are notorious for splitting when nailed or screwed near the ends especially at an angle. A metal connector keeps the screws perpendicular to the board face and all but eliminates any splitting
Simpson Strong-Tie RTR 20-Gauge Rigid Tie Connector for 2x Nominal Lumber
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-RTR-20-Gauge-Rigid-Tie-Connector-for-2x-Nominal-Lumber-RTR/100374866
Remember to get the washer head screws to use with these as well.
Also depending upon your dimensions and the weight you anticipate putting on the shelves I might suggest additional braces midway to prevent the plywood from sagging.
I was going to suggest the Simpsons Strong-tie hardware too. I've made probable 15 shelf units with them, and they're great. They provide just enough wiggle room to deal with slightly out of straight 2x4s.
Agree on the Simpson ties. Quick and easy to do with a great deal of support.
This is a perfect job for a Domino 700!
I have the smallest Kreg jig. Bought as a project called for one and decided to try it. That was five years ago and I’ve used it maybe twice more. I’ve used 20 screws maybe and still have plenty that came with the kit.
I know every YouTuber uses them for nearly every project but if it’s a one time thing maybe adapting what the guy in this video does is easier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOj7JYp6BiY
Honestly though try drilling a few by hand and it may not be as hard as it seems.
Alternatively glue and screws smaller 2x4 ears to the crosspieces (so it looks like a T) and then screw the ears to the long rails.
Mike
My first thought was the same type of metal hardware used for framing houses, but the cost of these adds up! You could probably put that money towards a Kreg jig and have it for future projects.
Pocket-hole joinery is just fine for shop furniture/garage storage. It's quick, it's cheap. It's not the strongest joint, but it will be fine here. For 2" x 4" lumber, you'd ideally want to get Kreg Tool's Kreg Jig HD, about seventy bucks, which comes with a larger HD-sized step-drill bit.
But there's no reason why one of the smaller "portable" Kreg products would't work, as they allow you to set the depth for material as thick as an inch-and-a-half. The new model 320 is forty bucks. The classic R3 is thirty bucks. Both of these allow you to drill two holes with a clamp in place. At 20 bucks, the new model 310 is half the price of the 320, but it has only one steel guide tunnel, meaning that more time would be required as you reposition your clamp. But with only a few holes to drill for this project, maybe that's a trade-off that's okay?
There is also a Wolfcraft Undercover Jig Set, complete with an assortment of screws. Home Depot's price is thirty-five bucks.
I guess you've checked YouTube videos for home-made jigs? Here's a very clever Lithuanian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teKyntvvHy4
There are also a few YouTube videos demonstrating just winging it with no jig, similar to framing a house by toe nailing. Using a 3/8" (?) or 3 mm (?) 4 mm (?) drill bit--the size depends upon the diameter of your screws--start by going a little distance straight down into the face of your board. Then tilt your drill at an angle, and aim the bit towards end of the board so that it exits the end-grain at the midline. Steve Ramsey goes into quite a bit of detail on this technique, but John Peters's explanation is clear and quick. He uses a countersink bit, but a normal bit would work for your storage project just fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egsAigXkyL0
Strong ties or other brackets are nice. Or Dominos. But this is a simple 2x4 utility shelf unit. Nails or deck screws are way stronger than necessary, and a lot faster. Strong ties can quickly double or triple the cost of materials. This is a really basic project that doesn't need to be overthought and over engineered.
What John_C2 says makes sense for the project you are doing. There may be times when a pocket hole screw connection makes sense. If you do it often, then the Kregg or other pocket hole machine may be beneficial. Another thing I have done is simply chiseling out an angled slot by hand. It doesn't take long, and you get better with practice. I did that yesterday when I was attaching a triangular shaped piece of wood to a support for log milling. The screw had to go in at an angle through the triangle and a pocket hole assisted that. It seated well.
Go back to the lumberyard. :-). Buy 2” x 2” dimensional lumber in the same lengths and quantities as your long boards that you are attaching to the wall, plus the outside faces, (i.e., six long 2”x2” boards for your three shelves, for example.)
With wood screws, attach one of these to the bottom half of the face of each long board. You now have an L-shaped bracket—a cleat—for each long board. Or, picture the sides of an antique bed, with its inside lip that supports the box spring: same principle.
Your same short pieces will still connect the inner and outer long boards, but instead of positioning them vertically and toe-nailing or using pocket holes, simply flip the shorties onto their faces, and let each end rest on the cleat on each side, like the slats on an Ikea bed. With your drill-driver and/or impact wrench, you can now drill or drive a screw straight through the face of each slat and into its supporting cleat.
Instead of screws, I might use bolts—4” in length?—washers, and nuts to connect. Pre-drill a pilot hole all the way through the flat slat/cleat combo. Place a washer under a bolt head and thread the bolt through the pre-drilled hole. Add the second washer where the bolt’s threads emerge. Add the nut and tighten it down. This will take more time, but might add some security.
I noticed this morning the Fix This Build That YouTube site has a garage shelving build video that is a more typical construction method. Free plans, too (and I don’t know the host, either).
The Ana White technique is interesting but doesn’t account for uneven garage floors.
Thanks everyone! I ended up doing the "drill the bit in and then slowly rotate to angle in" and it mostly worked... I'd probably do it differently next time, including probably building it OFF the wall then attaching last, but alas I was a bit stubborn but hey I learned through the process and at the end of the day... it works! It's sturdy and level. And it's the garage so it doesn't have to look perfect.
I looked at the picture in your other thread. It looks great. Feels good, right?
Thanks so much! Yeah, I mean I'm sure for many (most/all!) here, that's an extremely simple project, but I had fun and challenge figuring out the plans, realizing I mismeasured some stuff, dealing with slightly bent wood, leveling, etc... exciting entry - I'm proud! :)
Most of us started off with projects just like this. If you are interested in doing other projects, you are off on the right foot.
One of us. One of us. One of us.
Brava!
A Kreg mini used to be about $20 and came with the bit, collar and wrench. That being said here's an alternative to add to the one you used. Done with a 3/4" Forstner bit drilled 3/8" deep. The angle of the through hole uses the top edge and bottom of the Forstner hole as shown for alignment.
Z clips or Figure8 clips
I get that there’s really great info here, but I am getting tired of people consulting all the wisdom of the internet to find a workaround to buying a $20 tool. Really, is this what we should be pouring our attention at?
It really didn't take much of my time.
I get what you're saying. I own a Kreg 4 system, I am a fortunate and happy owner/user of Festool's Domino XL 700. If Kaitlin lived here in the neighborhood, I'd happily loan either to her.
My father was a carpenter for 42 years at a northeast Louisiana paper mill. Sadly, I have not mastered his framing skills with a hammer and 4-inch nails. My best memories of him include watching him with his two-stroke technique: tap-WHOOM! (Next nail:) tap-WHOOM! He would have been done with Kaitlin's project in about ten minutes, and it would have been *solid*.
I live in Tallinn, Estonia. No retailer here carries Kreg products. So, when I read Kaitlin's question, I saw it as the Sunday New York Times crossword puzzle: What would I do if I had neither Kreg nor Festool?
I'm not far beyond being a beginner myself, so it's kind of fun to research these things, to compare all the different ways to skin a cat. It's also fun to write and edit oneself.
Plus, I have no friends and lots of free time, so there's that. :-)
Right, the guy may be in mid-project and live an hour from the nearest BORG.
Exactly. What did we do before Kreg and Festool came along?
I don’t think the poster named Kaitlyn is a guy, and there’s something called amazon.
And I’m making a more general comment on the fact that people sometimes seem to go to the end of the universe to develop a solution to a problem that’s really rather simple. I guess if you have that luxury of time and want to spend you life on that more power to you. I understand the reluctance to buy specialized tools. I am a professional carpenter and I really try to limit my kit to the basics, and pride myself on being able to do more and better with less tools. That said, sometimes I have to balance whether it’s worth it to by an off-the-shelf jig to mortise hinges or spend time (which is not free) to make one myself. I also get that a professional makes different decisions from an amateur, economics and the value of time are much more foregrounded. I guess what I’m reacting to is those who want it all. I want free plans on the internet and to be able to build my project without buying everything, on yeah and I basically have no experience building. Just saying seems like something has to give on one of those fronts.... we all have to start somewhere. Don’t want to buy Kreg jig, fine, maybe start practicing your hand chiseling for some mortise and tenon joints. My post is not trying to disparage the original poster for her efforts to begin in the craft, hats off to her. I’m just commenting more generally on a pattern I’m seeing.
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