Replies

1. 
   RonK | Jun 17, 2008 01:30am | #1

   Attached is a link to a basic how to use the shaper video. It is probably available from several sources

   http://www.vms-online.com/Shopclass_Series__Shaper__DVD_P4596C55.cfm

2. 
   sgwilliams | Jun 17, 2008 01:33am | #2

   Hi David,

   A little more info would help. are you just putting an edge profile on?
   How many HP is the shaper?
   What type power feeder?

   Do you know how to set up a power feeder and use one?

   Shapers can be scary, but it can be done safely.
   Poplar machines well.
   You may want to check with the knife manufacture about rpm and feed rate for the cutter.

   In general, without knowing a little more, here are a few tips.

   1. make sure you have infeed and out feed support.
   2. it is absolutely imperative that you set the fences correctly and keep the stock against them. the power feeder will help in this respect (if it's big enough). use fether boards or spring guides to assist.
   3. don't try to take to big a bite, use some scrap and find out what the shaper and feeder can handle.
   4. do not let any one stand in the direct path of the out feed.
   5. if you get the feeder set up correctly your hands will come no where close to the cutter.
   6. NO loose clothing, gloves etc than can get in the feeder.
   7. use common sense

   HTH

   Scott

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/16/2008 6:34 pm ET by sgwilliams

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 17, 2008 06:51am | #3

   Scott, I've never used a shaper, only a router in a table.  But I have a question:  With the shaper, are you feeding against the rotation of the cutter, as you do (normally) with a table-mounted router?  If the answer is "Yes" would not the infeed side be the dangerous place to be? (#4:  4. do not let any one stand in the direct path of the out feed)  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   sgwilliams | Jun 17, 2008 06:59am | #4

   Hi FGIt depends on what you're doing/cutting, they turn both ways!I often strat in one direction & do a finish pass in the other.In any case, It's not a good idea to stand directly in the path.Scott

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 17, 2008 08:58am | #5

   "It's not a good idea to stand directly in the path."  Yeah, I launched a stick off the router table once, was quite glad to not be in the way!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   brad805 | Jun 17, 2008 09:30pm | #7

   Many suggest using a power feeder for climb cutting on a shaper for safety reasons. 

   Brad

3. 
   oldusty | Jun 17, 2008 05:29pm | #6

   Hi David ,

                  Will the trim you need to make be profiled on the 2 1/4" side as opposed to an edge ?

             If so and that is how it sounds to me , the cutter will be vertical and the stock will run the 2 1/4" side against the fence , right ?

            This requires not only enough spindle to fit that size cutter on but also the power feed must be turned so the wheels are facing the fence and cutter not the table so as to provide even pressure against the fence/cutter as well as the table while feeding the stock forward.

       It can be a time consuming set up but once set you can effortlessly run as much as you need to .

       The shaper is much like a larger more powerful router table and should be used with common sense and care . Take light passes until you feel confident to take the full amount in one pass if possible on this side ways type of setup .I say that because with some details you may loose the surface that slides against the fence after removing some of it . I have had to make aux fence supports to capture the already shaped wood so it stays flat against the fence .

                       dusty

    

4. 
   brad805 | Jun 17, 2008 09:55pm | #8

   I just finished some craftsman type trim with my shaper.  Do you plan to cut the stock to the final width before you run the trim and do your knives cut the full width?  If so, you will have difficulty when the stock feeds past the gap between the fences.  I cut my stock to width and the profile (1555-sm) cuts the full height.  It was a struggle to get the setup correct and in the end I set the outfeed fence back .010" for stock imperfections.  This still wastes some stock because you get imperfect cuts at the ends.  A trick I was told of after was to leave the stock wide so you can use a sacrificial wood fence (1514-sm).  This provides stock support over the length of your shaper hood.  If your profile only cuts a portion of the width, then you may only need a sacrificial fence.

   How many blades do you have on your cutter?  I used two custom blades in my insert head and fed my stock between 12 - 24fpm.   It turned out this was not quite enough cuts per inch, so now I am hand sanding all the pieces.  Next runs I will use a minimum of four cutters, but I am staining the trim so that makes a huge difference.

   Personally, I did not find Lonnie Birds book of much use.  I found more useful info on the woodweb.

   The safety is fairly straight forward once you add a power feeder.  Double check the nuts on the spindle, make sure your fence is properly attached, free spin the spindle to make sure there are no restrictions, if using insert knives make sure all the set screws are properly secured, and make sure you have set the rotation speed correctly for the cutter being used. 

   Brad

   
1. 
   oldusty | Jun 17, 2008 10:07pm | #9

   Hi Brad ,

            On your molding couldn't you have slowed the feed rate or raised the spindle speed to create more cuts per inch . I use collar knife heads with two cutters and never have experienced too few cuts per inch .

           Since I grind some of my own steel knives , Sometimes I only run one knife that cuts the other is there for balance , on smaller details this can work but not so on large profiles .

           The box has some of my steel collar knives .

                regards              dusty

         

   
1. 
   brad805 | Jun 17, 2008 10:55pm | #10

   I was already maxed out on the speed.  That cutter is rated for 7000rpm and I was at 7200.  I think I probably used 24fpm most of the time and I will admit that was too fast.  When I get running profiles I like to get it done, and in this case that was short sighted.  I hadnt exactly planned to stain the cherry trim, and they would look look fine if only a finish were applied.  Some friends convinced me to stain to match the room finishes.  After sanding for four nights now, I think they were just messing with me.  I had Weinig cut the profiles and can have them cut a couple more for my next runs.  I will have to pickup another insert head.

   Brad

1. 
   oldusty | Jun 18, 2008 07:36am | #11

       Brad ,

    Can you use the same head for other cutters ?

           Running at a slower fpm rate will certainly take longer to run especially on a very long run of 1000s of feet but in most cases the smoother result will mean little or no sanding or cleanup is required .While eliminating the chatter or ripple effect caused by too quick of feed rate .

        As far a climb cutting on a shaper goes , I have never felt the need to do it .

         Occasionally while hand holding a router I will climb cut then go back over to usually give a nice cut .

            dusty

1. 
   brad805 | Jun 18, 2008 08:04pm | #12

   Yes, I can have blades of many shapes made for this insert head.  Using the 5/16" thick corrogated back allows a max blade projection of around 30mm.  Weinig has a catalog (now online) of about 1500 profiles they offer for moulder heads.  These fit many different insert heads.  If you do ever order from them you do have to pay attention as they are moulder guys and do not deal with many shaper customers.  The corrogated back knives are not as easy to setup since the move freely up and down, but with the Aigner Distometer it is pretty easy.

   The more I have thought about my trim setup, I think I was getting a lot of chatter.  I had to set the PF pressure quite low so the stock would not hit the outfeed fence.  With the Western Roller wheels you can get away with lighter pressures than if using the stock PF wheels and the stock still feeds perfectly.  The next runs I will leave the stock wide so I can use a tall sacrificial fence and then the stock has support between the infeed and outfeed fences.  I used the sacrificial fence when I made my flooring for the back relief cuts and the cut quality was better.

   I agree with you on the climb cutting.  I rarely do.

   Brad

2. 
   oldusty | Jun 18, 2008 09:08pm | #13

       Some collars have sort of a worm gear screw that advances the knives equally . Then set screws lock the set up in place so you could leave it set but take it on and off the shaper .

          Something to try , depending on the detail sometimes a piece of the same or similar detailed molding tacked to the outfeed fence can act as support , so you can have pressure on the outfeed end as well .

         The detail just needs to support the stock not match exactly .

     This may help eliminate some road rash and deliver a more better result .

         The multi head molders are so much more machine then I really need , and with some of the short runs I do it is less practical .

                    dusty

3. 
   brad805 | Jun 18, 2008 09:53pm | #14

   What, you dont have 100amps free, three phase power and a spare $50 - $100k kicking around for a moulder?  Oh, and thats right then you probably need a straight line rip too :)  I mentioned the moulder heads only because you can use many of their profiles with the corrogated back insert head and the shaper.

   None of my cutters have a worm gear adjustment.  I have been buying Garniga cutters for the most part and I dont think that worm gear would meet Euro safety rules.

   In my case the trim height equalled the cutter blade height so I didnt have many options between fences.  Leaving the stock wide is no problem in the future because I have a whole host of narrower profiles to follow the craftsman style.

   Sorry to the OP if the topic was highjacked.

   Brad