OK, I am getting set to build my first workbench. For the top I am planning on using 2×4’s and squaring off the “rounded” edges. I know I really should use a hard wood for the top, but I am not in that financial place yet and this is my “first” bench so I would hate to blow money on something I would probably mess up.
Anyway, my question is regarding the benchdogs. I read the article in the issue of Tools and Shops on cutting Dado’s for the benchdogs and I like that idea. Now, which way to the bench dogs angle? I think they would want to angle at the 2-3 degree pitch toward the end vice. Is this correct?
Another question…what width are the dog holes? 3/4″?
I really like the vises that are on the workbench in the Tools and Shop issue. Anyone know what manufacturer makes those or maybe some recommendations for vises.
Thanks!
Dark Magneto
Replies
Dark M
Yes on the angle toward the end vises. Yes on the 3/4" for the square dogs. There are 5/8" available, but the 3/4" are the norm.
The front vise on the work-bench you refer to is German hardware and you build the faces. The end vise is a Veritas twin screw and you build the faces. Both are available through Lee Valley who has the patent on the twin and the German hardware is imported. Both are excellent choices, IMO as I engage the same on my bench.
http://www.leevalley.com
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
A little suggestion from another novice. I used 2X8's and ripped them in half. That gave me 2 2X4's with a square edge. A rock solid, dirt cheap place to make good lumber into firewood scraps.
Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue
Lefty,
I am also a novice and was wondering the size of your bench top? I may go your route and rip 2X8s just to get square edges. I was also thinking of using circular bench dog holes so I can drill them afterwards. I assume that you just glued them up for the top? Any pictures of your bench that you can post? Thanks...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Yes on the angle. I made mine closer to 1" square, but 3/4" is also fine. You can easily make your own bench dogs, so don't worry about building the holes to fit something you buy.
I also built my top from 2x4s and wish I hadn't. One, the wood was terribly unstable and warped all over the place. Two, the 2x4s were full of knots, which made it extremely difficult to handplane. If I were doing it again I'd buy a better grade of wood for sure.
OK, I understand the issue of the pine being unstable and full of knots. Can anyone recommend a less expensive alternative to Maple? What about Alder? That is available in my area and is pretty inexpensive. Any thoughts?
Dark Magneto
I don't know about Adler. Poplar has traditionally been a relatively inexpensive wood.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about using a real hard hardwood becasue it doesn't bother me when my workbench is dented.
I'd suggest going to a lumberyard and seeing what they have an for what prices.
Dark,
Just a couple of thoughts....remember the holes in the top have to line up with the vise....it may be easier to drill 3/4" round ones after the top is assembled.
Also, to keep cost down...either build a high quality base or a high quality top..with the intention of eventually swaping out one or the other. In your case, I'd suggest a high quality base which could be salvaged....
BG,
If I go with the Veritas vices like Sarge pointed to, I build my own wooden jaws. It will be easy to line up my dog holes in my wooden jaws with my dogholes in the top. I assume that is how most people do it...
Right now, I think I will spend the money on the vises and work with Pine 2x's. I can always take the vises off and put them onto the next bench. Plus, I feel my skillset getting better after every project. I bet I could improve the base and top on the next one...
Thanks!Dark
Just a couple of thoughts. If you are using purchased bench dogs, get them first, before you build. Ditto with the vises, as there are construction details you will want to account for from the start.
I am in the East, and alder is not common here, but I recall that my father, in the southwest, used it a bunch. Struck me as a sort of reddish tinted birch, not quite so hard, and pretty stable. Around here, 8/4 poplar, in the rough, is about $2 per BF, so a 6' x 2' top would be about 30 BF, if you have a thick front edge. Pretty good choice. I will say that I don't oft use 2x4's, but did pick up a few recently at the big box, and they were awful!!!! Can't imagine trying to build a bench out of them. More skill than I have.
Have fun with this one, because a good bench is quite a tool.
AlanAlan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Dark,
I'm fairly certain Sarge would post a picture of his bench if you asked him..
Note that his veritas vise spans the complete width of the bench....with dog holes running up both sides of the workbench....excellent idea if it works for you...
LUMBER UPDATE:
OK, I just contacted my local supplier and got the latest pricesheet. They list 8/4 Hard(White) maple at 6.15/bf but they also have 8/4 Hard(brown) Maple at 4.62/bf.
What is the difference in Brown Maple? They don't carry any softwoods so Douglas Fir is out of the question. The do have poplar and 8/4 is 2.39/bf
any ideas?
Dark
dark,
Not sure where you are...but, Woodcraft was having a sale on Poplar at $1.60 a bd ft....I think the big box stores carry the doug fir...
The Douglas fir I was suggesting you use is ordinary construction lumber, probably around a dollar a board foot. I recently picked up a few virtually clear, very tight grained 2x12's at that price at the local Home Depot.
Construction lumber always has too much moisture in it to be used straight from the lumber yard, all of the comments about 2x4's and 2x6's warping is because the pepole using them don't seem to know this. Properly dried out, construction lumber is as stable as any other wood.
John W.
Edited 2/10/2004 7:30:11 PM ET by JohnW
Poplar is awfully soft and light. My next choice would be Alder.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Lefty's suggestion of using 2x8s and ripping them in half is a good one if you want to go that route. Usually the bigger 2x lumber is better quality, since it typically has a less forgiving structural application (like floor joists, stair stringers, etc.). You can get away with defects like loose knots and bark inclusions in a cheap wall stud that you couldn't have in a floor because of the different type of loading. They're also usually SYP (which is heavier and stronger) instead of white pine or whatever.
Froed
Froed,
I noticed that 2X6's were a lot cheaper than 2X8s. How about using 2X6's? Still have the same width on the top. I'm thinking of this option...
Regards,
Buzzsaw
I agree with Sarge, that should work just fine. And if I didn't agree, I haven't made 16 benches anyway (just one so far), so I'd have to defer to his expertise. ;)
Have fun.
Froed
Pine is not unstable nor does it have to be especially full of knots, although the low grade stuff they sell at Home Depot usually is. Eastern white pine, yellow pine and Douglas fir can all be used for building a work bench although the white pine would be rather soft for a bench top. All three woods are more stable than maple.
These days, better grade white pine is as expensive as some hardwoods but yellow pine and Douglas fir are usually far cheaper than hardwood and can be found in any lumber yard. Usually the best stuff is to be found in the 10 inch and 12 in. wide stock which can be trimmed out to yield clear stock with very little waste. In Europe, by the way, Douglas fir is considered a cabinet wood, and yellow pine was regularly used in the South for furniture making.
Buy kiln dried if possible but the stock will always have to be stickered indoors for several weeks to get it down to a stable moisture content, but the same is true about hardwoods unless they have just come out of the kiln. Be sure to seal the end grain to prevent losing material to checking while it dries.
John W.
D M
Opps.... Missed one of an over-view...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
D M
Lefty has a great idea with ripping the 8" wide lumber. 2 x 4's usually have a lot of knots. I suggest you use 2 x 8 southern yellow pine and hand select them so there are no knots in the center where the rip will be made. As long as the knots are not to close to the top surface they will be basically irrelevant.
Warning!! Most 2 x 4's and southern yellow pine will have about 16% to 18% average mositure content off the rack. Pre-cut it and let it stabalize till it goes down to between 10% and 12% through-out and you will eliminate a lot of warpage that will ensue if you glue it up at 17%.
BTW, I have used S Y P on many machine bases and don't have problems if it is properly prepared by dropping the moisture content.
Good luck...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Dark,
I'll repeat Mark's and others warnings about unstable 2x's. I used 2x6's on my first and only wood workbench to date. I glued edge to edge with a 1/2" thick cdx plywood spline the full 8ft. length. 7 2x6's glued together will warp 'almost' as easy as 1 board alone or 3 boards glued together. My front and rear edges sagged and the middle (lengthwise) sagged. Significant supporting will be required from the understructure.
I lived and learned from my punch out workbench, built in maybe 3 partial days. But last summers reworking was fun too. Cheap too!
Plan well, it helps! Oh, 2x4's, are you glueing edge to edge or face to face?
Enjoy, Roy
I was planning on glueing face to face so the top would be on edge.
Dark
Sarge,
I noticed that 2X6's were a lot cheaper than 2X8s at HD. How about using 2X6's? Still have the same width on the top. I'm thinking of this option but have oftentimes seen your posts and you obviously know your stuff...Thanks...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz
You're on target and I'm old! I normally make tops about 3 1/2" to 3 3/4" thick so the 2 x 6 (roughly 5 1/2") would do nicely for a 2" to 2 1/4" top. That would be the ticket with less waste.
Just forgot (old-timers disease) to use the conversion chart to what someone else is planning as to my personal approach. Suppose those 31 years of working alone could be factored? Nah! Probably just the "Dah!!!" factor explains the whole thing.
The good news is I'm still having a good time. ha.. ha...
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Dark,
Just finished my base last weekend, I used 4x4 and 2x4 Kiln dried Doug fir, beatuful lumber. This lumber is 5.99 a ft for 4x4 and 1.99 for the 2x4s. About $110.00 but worth every penny.
For the top I'm using 2 layers of 3/4" mdf, 4 layers of 5/8" mdf and top it off with 1/4"hard board for a total thickness of 4-1/4". It will be heavy but stable. I also plan on using a Vertis twin screw end vise with 4 row of 3/4" dog holes spaced at 6" apart. Il also have a front vise on the left end. Good luck.
Dick38
Dick38,
Did you use any plans for your base?
Dark
Dark M
The poplar sounds to be the only reasonable price in your area. It will work fine. Alan had a great add by mentioning using hard-wood for the dog strips. I used re-covered Doug Fir for my base and left-over maple shorts for the top. Notice the strips for the dogs in the pics I will post.
The poplar is fine for the top. If you dent it with heavy pounding, who cares! Get pics as soon as you complete it and then "saddle up and ride her hard". It wasn't designed to be a formal dining room table. ha.. ha...
Once you figure the exact dimensions of the top and if you want hang-over on the sides and ends, you design the base from there. You can opt to use someone elses plans, but you would benefit by custom height, width and with the features that compliment your style.
Including a pic of base and bench. This is my 16th over 30 years. Eleven for others. I have used the same base I designed 20 years ago since. "Like a Rock" as it has no DNF's. (Did not finish). It won't budge even before the top is added.
Goo luck...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sarge,
I love the pics. Can you speak a little bit more about the materials for the base and the top. Maybe you already have and maybe I missed it. Thanks...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz
The bench is my 16th so we'll call it the X-16. The top is an experiment that I took on while sitting looking at a box of shorts and scraps. I work a lot with others left-overs.
The base is a re-covered single beam (about 30" long) of Doug Fir from an old "civil war era" warehouse here in Atlanta that was to be demolished. It has been ripped and sized down. The base components are re-glued to appropriate sizes from that. I designed the base about 20 years ago and have used it numerous times. It will not move even without the top on-board.
The top is made of finger-jointed maple scraps about 6" to 8" long and then re-glued face to face. I had to purchase about 30 board feet of maple for the outer perimeter and vise faces.
The front vise is German hard-ware and the twin-screw end vise is Veritas. About $280 invested with the vises being the big expense at $200. Took about a month of spare time to build. Through mortice and tenons with a few bridle joints make up the joinery and Watco with Butchers Wax is the finish.
A through discussion in a thread I started in the fall (archives.. Work-Benches--Beauty or Beast). If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hello Dark,
YesI have The Workbench Book -- by Scott Landis.He has plans for 4 or 5 benches
I think it's $16.00 at Amazon.
Have fun,
Dick38
Just to throw out another idea and perhaps muddy the waters a bit here's what I did. Taking the design out of Sam Allen's "Making Workbenches" I built The Joiners Bench (p 27). If you haven't seen this book here's a description. Top is 2' X 7' consisting of 3 glued up layers of 3/4 MDF then sheathed all round with 1/4 Masonite. For the base I used 4 X 4 straight grained fir for the legs and 2 X 4 same material for the stringers (two sets one flush with top of legs the other set about 12" off ground). Grooves were routed in the stringers to accept 3/8 threaded rod and holes drilled in legs to mate with grooves and counter bored at outside to accept 1" washer and nuts. Then the stringers were doweled and glued to mate into the legs, the rods passed through the grooves (grooves facing to inside of the carcass) and snugged up tight with nuts and washers. I used the Veritas twin screw end vice and a Record 91/2 for the face vise. Drilled a grid of 3/4" holes in top (4 rows but wouldn't do that again could get by with 2) inline with 4 holes drilled into top of moving jaw in the end vise plus drilled holes down face edge of bench top and down leg furthest away from face vise. Top is fixed to base with buttons secured in second row of grooves in top stringers and lag bolts into underside of top.
Cost of materials, excluding the vises but including all hardware, was about $90. If I recall accurately the vises were about $220 total. I use (obviously) round bench dogs and found that the brass ones from Veritas fit best. This thing is heavy, flat and stable. Took me about 16 hours to build and I did joint and plane the fir stock to ensure straightness and accuracy.
If I had the camera and tech expertise I'd post a pic but I hope this is clear.
Good luck!
Here's a link to what I think is a pretty good Popular Woodworking article by Chris Schwartz on building a workbench. Not too pricey, but it looks like a good, stable, and inexpensive design.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1069
Even with a lot of softwood in the bench, you might want hardwood at the benchdog holes.
DM,
If you still want to use 2x6 pine, find some laminated beam perhaps. I found some 24" wide and 5 1/2" thick for $7 per foot, at the local lumber yard. Nice and dry, already glued up, and ready to go. I put two together for a 4' by 7' bench. Am in the process (still) of building a big twin screw vise like Sarge's and I plan on using a mortiser to bore the dog holes. VERY heavy, somewhere in the 700 to 800 lb range with the base.
If you do decide to use construction lumber (2x) look at the grade. For example, there are 9 grades of Doug Fir, from Utility (wouldn't use it in an outhouse) to Select Structural (build a bridge with it). The better grades will have straighter grain, fewer to no knots, etc. You may have to go to a real lumber yard to get the selection, but it's worth it for the better quality (think of all the time you will have invested in the bench, then add in all the hours to "fix" the the results of lower quality lumber).
For a good introduction to construction lumber, grading, etc:
http://www.wwpa.org/pdf/A.pdf
I'd recommend against using dimensional lumber for a bench top unless you have access to really good kiln dried lumber. If you want a cheap top, use MDF or several layers of plywood. Use hardboard for the top and bottom surfaces. The "Workbench book" tells how to do this.
I'd especially recommend NOT ripping dimensional lumber. Mills aim for the smallest dimension that can be cut and not have structurally degrading knots. I suspect that they aim for 2 x 6's these days. You cannot just cut 2 x 4s into 2 x 2s because knots that are acceptable in 2x4s may take away most of the strength of a 2x4.
Also, dimensional lumber is sold wet (even the "kiln dried" stuff) and is intended to stabilize as part of a wall. The bottom plate and top plate and the fire blocking stabilize 2x4s used in construction.
Just try leaving some 2x4s or 2x6s to dry unrestrained. When the moisture content drops enough, you'll have propeller blanks!
Dark,
I built a southern yellow pine workbench a few years back and have gotten as many years of valuable and pleasurable use out of it. Though, it has it's advantages and disadvantages, it has served well as the center of my shop. I'm afraid I can't source the article, but it is a design as detailed in a magazine (maybe FWW) article that used pine for the lumber and pipe clamps in lieu of vises. With respect for the author, whom I'm sure is otherwise brilliant, it turned out the pipe clamps idea is just dumb and ill advised as well as a waste of time and money. They basically suck at being vises, and have since been replaced with some old cast iron woodworking vises that were donated to my cause by a generous friend. That was a worthy upgrade! And the pipe clamps are working much better for me in the service for which they were designed.
Anyway... if you use pine for a bench top, be prepared for the softer spring wood to have some local crushing resulting in a significantly pitted top over time. This doesn't really hurt anything for most woodworking tasks. The pits are pretty small. It's just sorta unsightly and not so fun to sit on when you're naked. ;) This is one of the disadvantages. My top is still flat - movement, warping, cupping and sagging have not been problems.
One of the brilliant suggestions in the article was about how to maximize the use of pine in this service. The author suggested making the top all vertical grain which I think is vitially important. Stability is then not an issue. I can't imagine how a flat sawed pine top would wear. I'm guessing really poorly in spots. The local crushing could easily become "regional" crushing - lol. I'm not sure if you're planning on using those 2 x 4's on the flat or edge ways, but I'm guessing on the flat with a top that's 1 1/2" thick nominally. Mine is that thick. So here's the deal - as the article suggested and as I did - You can buy wide #2 southern yellow pine lumber - 2 x 10's or 2 x 12's and rip clear vertical grain 2 x 4's off the edges. Ok, maybe 2 x 3's, but those will work just as well. A quick browse of the lumber in the rack will reveal that this is a cinch, so select your lumber accordingly. The "waste" center rip will be flat grain and the part that contains the knots. But it's not waste at all. Most of it will still be quite suitable for the understructure of your bench. I had hardly any waste and there was nothing overly special about the lumber I bought. So if you're leaning toward a pine top for economic reasons, after having done this myself and seen the efficiency of it, I recommend you consider it.
One day, I still hope to upgrade to a real bench, but for now, my pine bench is serving me well. And it's right on the verge of being "rock" solid.
Just don't let anyone talk you into pipe clamps. Boy, that's like a bad joke! Don't believe everything thing you read.
jdg
jd
"The pits are pretty small.... it's just sorta unsightly...."
Wood filler sanded out... at my age I can't see it anyhow!
"and not so fun to sit on when you're naked".
What are you doing on your work-bench when you're naked? Well, never mind..... ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'm kind of slow responding to you but I'm afraid I don't have pictures. It is fairly ugly to look at. My dog holes are 1/2" and I use 1/2" bolt for hold downs. They are spaced at 6" intervals from the end vice. I also mounted several tools on extra pieces of 2X8 and drilled the lumber at 12" or 18" so I can mount my metal vice, small drill press, bench grinder, etc. to the workbench when I need to. They live on a shelf below the bench when not in use. My bench is about 36" X 8'. It has one decent WW vice on the short end aligned with one row of the dog holes and 2 cheap Pony vices on the long side opposite the good vice. They are about 4' apart to handle edge work on long boards. I poly'ed the top with several coats using poly that was about the end of its useful life, very thick. That has made the top almost bulletproof. Nothing sticks, glue stain, grease, etc. It has a frame of 4X4's and 2X8's. Very cheap. The top was put together fast and cheap by adding one board at a time with glue and 10 pennies, no clamps needed. The 2 boards with dog holes were drilled on the press before installation.I hope this explains it a little. Its not pretty but it beats the sawhorses and plywood that it replaced.
Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue
Hi Dark,
I'm designing my first bench as well and am deciding what to do about the top. I thought of making it out of some kind of softwood but I would much rather have a hardwood top. I am not set up to mill the maple required and then laminate the whole thing, so I started looking into buying some maple butcherblock. I found a company (I think mentioned here somewhere) called PerfectPlank. They make edge-glued maple butcher block in several thicknesses and lengths. They sell it with one side clear -- or, furniture-grade. Or two sides furniture-grade(for 20% more $). I looked a little closer and they also sell it with no furniture-grade sides for 20% less! The blutcher block comes unfinished, which I think may be one reason it is cheaper than what I've seen at other places. A top out of their maple "wildwood" (which means lower grade material than the pretty stuff you see on countertops) 1 7/8" thick by 17" wide by 48" long would cost $53 and would cost about $30 for shipping. That just sounds amazing to me! They offer it up to 3 1/2" thick.
The website is http://www.perfectplank.com
I'd be curious to know what others think. Have you bought from them before? Does it look legit?
Good luck!
Mitch
Mitch
Take a look at the Lee Valley web-site bench-tops. Read the description carefully and you will note their bench-tops are also finger-jointed. They may even get them from Perfect-Plank. Who knows (Rob Lee probably does.. he..)
I see no problems with it as the experiment I ran with finger joints has held almost 3 seasons with minimal warpage. If you are without equipment or facilities to make your own, why not? I like the urea water-proof glue they use.
If you have the "Work-Bench Book" glance at Ian Kirby's section on his work-bench. He does not build his own top. He buys them to save time and because he feels that the pre-manufactured ones are glued up better with the urea glue.
Maybe someone else could comment on that as I am not a chemist by a long shot. My take on that is not a qualified one. But I bet that Lee Valley has few returns on their finger-jointed tops. Just a guess, though! ha.. ha..
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
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