I never seem to be able to hit my tenons on the money and I think I’m wasting time on them. Is the best way if your fat to use a shoulder plane and trim it to fit or “use a hammer” as the one gentleman recommends. Even using a tenoning jig my stock never seems to be uniform enough to hit it on the the nose. I don’t have a shoulder plane but I’ll start watching on line for a used one.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
It's definately a better idea to trim it to a tight fit than to pound it in. Some 'gentle persuading' with a mallet (or hammer with a block of wood) is okay, but you don't want to forcefully ram an oversized tenon into an undersized mortise.
You won't regret buying a good shoulder plane.
Jesse David
A couple thoughts. While I think it best to cure the cause, you also need to cure the symptom to get work done.
So while working on getting a good fit off machines--which involves accurate measuring, marking, and cutting--I would use what you may already have in the shop. A wood file, coarse bastard file and or a rasp.
For trimming tenon faces, I use the above for every single tenon which needs thinned. A shoulder plane may well work well, but I never found them to work as well as the controlled thinning a file or rasp can do.
But also work on getting the fit you need from the tools you use to mark and cut them. Even to the extent of wasting scrap every once in a while for shop time when you don't have much time to actually work on a project.
An ideal tenon fits the mortise with firm pressure. Needing to hit them in with something more than your palm [and I don't recommend even that tight--it's hard on the hand] makes glue-ups that much more tense.
Take care, Mike
you can also use a block a block plane, and just clean up the 1/8" left with a chisel. accurate or not on the cleanup, an1/8 isn't going to make much difference to joint strength.
Expert since 10 am.
Jackplane,
I'm thinking about a LN rabbit block plane instead of the shoulder plane for the tennons...and thoughts?
Either one would work well, but I'd reach for the rabbett block plane- a little lower center of gravity, and a lower cutting angle for difficult woods.
Expert since 10 am.
Edited 1/16/2007 8:54 am ET by jackplane
Why not avoid the grief all together and go with "loose tenons"? Several significant advantages.
1. No having to add "plus tenon lengthS" to the visible length. One less source of error, measuring or cutting.
2. No futzing with shoulders, you cross cut what would normally be the tenoned part to the "visible length" and route a mortise in its end grain as well as the cross grain part.
3. You can make up a foot or two of loose tenon stock and cut off what you need. You can use scarps to make them or ply which is more stabile and often stronger than solid wood.
4. you save some of the "good wood" - the stuff that shows. Think about it - on a table apron for example, you've got 8 tenons - at 3/4" long each that's 6 inches of the good stuff. On a full project it can add up.
charlie b
Hi Charlie,
I too use loose tenons when for a given reason I want to.
But I wouldn't say there is less measuring/cutting source errors. Same and different errors can occur.
Take care, Mike
[Plus I hate plunging into end grain. Well, actually I hate routers. So take the router comments in that context.]
If I'm making mortises with power tools, I usually use the two outside blades from my stacked dado set with spacers between them. I made a bunch of spacers out of ply, hardwood, sheet metal and plastic of various thicknesses. Through a little experimentation, I have learned what combination of these spacers fit a given mortise width. With all the work being done up front, I know exactly how to set up the blades/spacers for a given mortise. Then, the only hard part is getting the tennon centered exactly. To do this, I'll mark the workpiece with a guage to get the settings close, then dial it in on scrap using calipers to tweak to the final setting. Even so, I always cut all my pieces with the outside to the fence, so if they are off just a bit, it won't cause misalignment.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike,I use a tenoning jig to cut tenons. To center them (unless I need them off center) I cut with only one blade by first cutting one side then turning the piece around in the jig. I can also adjust for a very fine fit of tenon to mortise this way. It is great for multiple parts. Recently made 6 chairs and a desk which had 64 M&T joints in it.My tenoning jig holds the workpiece securely. How do you hold yours to feed it along a fence and get an accurate cut? Cadiddlehopper
Cadid,
I use exactly the same approach to tenons that you do. It works for me too. Tenoning jigs are fun and easy to make.I used to think that M&T and dovetailing, etc were difficult. Then I tried them. I have found ways to really make M&T fail miserably -- by not dimensioning my lumber well!!!!When it comes to thinning a tenon that is too thick, I have had a good deal of fun by trying different ways to fix them. They all worked for me. I used a file and a rasp. The dangers are obvious, but if you are relaxed and careful, it works beautifully. I have used a rabbet plan, and a number of months ago, I bought an old Stanley Router Plane. They both worked also. I find that no tool works for me until I spend sufficient time in learning to use it.When I hear someone say that their tenoning technique or their dovetail jig isn't working well, I am reminded of the guy I bought my first guitar from, when I was about 14. I was trying to make up my mind between two guitars, one in each of two shops. I finally decided on one of them, and I told the shop owner that I selected his because it stayed in tune so well and so long. You see, the store owner would play the guitar for me each time I visited the shop. He looked at me and laughed. He said that the guitar didn't stay in tune any better than any other guitar. He said that I never noticed that he was tuning it as he was playing it. AHA, says I -- It aint the tool, its the skill in using it!!!!!Have a good day.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
It aint the tool, its the skill in using it!!!!!Mel,That is exactly my experience.Cadid
Yep. Cutting a tennon with one blade will leave it centered, but not necessarily a uniform thickness. When I do it with one blade, there's way too much trial & error (mostly error <G>) for me. I'd rather hit the thickness on the money and approximate the centering. When you reference everything off one face, centering is not critical.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
"not necessarily a uniform thickness" can be true if your stock is not a uniform thickness. I haven't had to do more than sand or file a bit to get good fits. The tenons seem to be more consistent than the mortises which have rough walls sometimes. When making several dozen joints, having to nurse each fit is the pits. I've been through that phase. I make my setups with more tedium than before.Cadiddlehopper
Beadlock jig will solve some of your problem. Are you doing all your measuring from the same side of your piece, when you do your cutting? It sounds like that might be a part of your problem when you speak of variations in your wood thicknesses.
It would depend on how much erroer you have in your parts. A sanding block will bring your tennon down if it is close enough to tempt you to "just pound it in".
If it is tight on your dry fit, it will slide in a whole lot easier when lubed up with your glue.
If it is tight on your dry fit, it will slide in a whole lot easier when lubed up with your glue.
I find precisely the opposite to be true. The moisture from the PVA glue causes a slight swelling that can seize up a tight fit part way in.
In response to the query about the LN rabbet block, I find it excellent for fitting tenons, though rasps, files, and chisels can work great too.
upstate,
A methodical approach will go a long way on sizing tenons. Getting out an extra length of stock (or saving that longer off-cut) is helpful to use for setting up, especially with complicated (angled, or compound angled, for instance) joints.
You mentioned a lack of uniformity in your stock. Machining all the parts of a project at the same time, so that all the aprons (for example) are sent thru the planer at the same setting is a good idea. Another thing that helps is using the same face of your stock for referencing both sides of the tenon. Even if the tenon is nominally in the center of the stock's thickness, referencing off both faces will put any variations in stock thickness right in the tenon, where you don't want it. So lay the joint out, and make both set-ups from the face of the stock (if you can); any variations will be put to the back, where they can be ignored, or flushed off after assembly.
I've used both rasps and planes for fitting tight tenons. Both will work, you have to be aware of the potential for rounding over with the rasp, and of the plane's blade taking off a shaving of unequal thickness across or along the tenon. Plus you have to decide whether the front, back, or both cheeks need adjustment.
Regards,
Ray Pine
I second Mr. Pine's observations. I find with tenons (and indeed all joinery) that marking and working from the same face is key. I like to mill my stock in two stages- rough and then a final pass after stickering for 4 or so days (I am an amateur, so time pressure is not a problem for me as it would be for a pro). I use the same planer setting at the same time to do the final milling on all pieces.I favor the use of a shoulder plane to fit the tenon rather than a rasp, but that is more a personal preference than anything else.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
My tenons started going a lot better when a FWW article suggested a slight chamfer all around the end. That gets me into the mortise enough to check for tight spots with pencil lead. The chamfer also prevents the sharp leading edge from taking all of the glue to the bottom of the hole with it. Maybe this is common knowledge, but it opened doors for me! Also, I use an old Stanley No. 78 to trim things up.
-Regards
I'm building a pair of spindle sided Morris chairs with matching footstools, which require about 150 tenons all together. My daughter bought me a LN Rabbit Block Plane for my birthday and using it on all these tenons has made fine tuning a snap. I tried using the rasps and files, but keep coming back to the LN. A fine tool worthy of anyone's shop.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled