Hi
One of my first woodworking projects was a real overreach. Before I had learned much at all I attempted the country hutch from issue #189. While the base cabinets did dry fit OK, a lot of the tenons have significant voids. Even though fairly tight now, I am concerned they will fail over time. So it has sat for almost a decade waiting to be finished.
t this point I see a few options to fix it:
- cut off the tenons and change to floating; would be a shame to loose traditional joinery though
- Flatten the tenons and glue on some shims; would this even work?
- Find an expanding glue; easiest solution though a bit of a cheat I guess, and am not sure what glue would work best
I would appreciate any opinions as to the way to go. I was lucky enough to find some beautiful cherry for this project – it would be a real shame to waste it.
Replies
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#2 will definitely work & what I do those RARE (ha ha) times when this happens to me. Then I review my technique. If you used a shoulder or rabbet block plane, I recommend putting them on the shelf and use a router plane with extended base to dial in the tenons.
#3 can work, but its kind of a cheesy way out, that said, I've done it. I use epoxy for gap filling glue.
Sawing off the tenons and starting over with floating is perfectly acceptable, too.
You'll get it!!
Post a pic when you're done we would love to see it.
I absolutely agree! I cut my tenons by hand, staying about 1/16 away from the line, then follow up with a router plane.
Also, I have cut a bum tenon or two and you can definitely glue shims to the tenon then use a router plane to get down to the correct and level thickness.
Numbers 1 and 2 would work fine.
About number 3:
Matthias Wandell has a page on his website about using expanding glue to fill a loose joint. His info comes straight from the makers of Gorilla glue.
https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/gorilla_glue.html
Here is an excerpt:
"Gorilla Glue does perform very well when the surfaces are tightly fitted - in fact, it is stronger than the other glues you tried. In the future, we recommend Gorilla Epoxy for gap filling applications, as it fills voids and bonds uneven and vertical surfaces."
Mike
I’d go with #2 and go slow to not over trim and end up loose again. Here’s pics from a Philip Lowe article on fixing joinery mistakes (FWW #186).
My tactic is to glue on shims. I then use my table saw and a miter gauge trim the tenon, gradually raising the blade to sneak up on the proper fit. It works great for me. My tenons are always straight, level and parallel with the workpiece.
Here's the technique for FWW in 2011. https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/11/03/behold-the-speed-tenon
Thanks this is very helpful.
Good to know any of the fixes will work. I have decided to glue on shims so that the joinery will be as intended in the design -more work, but in the end more satisfying to me.
Thanks again all.
Glue on shims. Foamy gap filling glues have very little strength. Epoxy is better. But a glued shim making for a tight tenon is better yet.
I second John C2's advice. Shims to make it tight and epoxy glue forgive all sins with fit.
Not a single woodworker has over cut the size of a tenon.Glue on shimes,trim to size,if over trimmed again,go back to step one.Consider investing in the time to make Frank Klous'(sp) tenon cutter.Best jig in your shop.
Noting that the reference was to Gorilla brand EPOXY glue, not the foamy stuff. I think any structural epoxy would work. That's what I do with a loose joint, and seem to do on almost every M/T joint I've done. If its a thin gap, I've used brown paper as a shim.
I'm assuming that these joints are not glued up. If they are and they seem tight and strong, I wouldn't try to take them apart and "fix" them. Just move on to the next project. If they are not glued, as already mentioned, #2 is the traditional way to repair this kind of issue and it works well.
If you elect to go with #3, use epoxy with a filler. The filler is very important as most epoxies are glue and not intended to fill voids with strength. Sanding dust works just fine by mixing it to about the consistency of peanut butter. This is not just my opinion. The suggestion comes to me directly from West Systems. My experience bears it out.
BTW, There is nothing wrong with #1. This is a perfectly acceptable method of joinery.
I would generally use #2. Works well. First attempt that went wrong we just consider "practice".
I have found that hardware store epoxy (that comes in two joined tubes) does a great job as a gap filling glue. It has a filler added to the catalyst so that the two tubes put out equal volume. The West System epoxy I use doesn't have any filler, so as above noted, you need to add some filler for gap filling.
Here is some advice that saves me a lot of anxiety when I am gluing up a complicated piece with snug mortise and tenon joints: I use long set epoxy even tho the joints are tight. (Even tho Titebond and similar glues are cheaper.) The reason: the water in yellow glues causes the wood to swell, and things get tighter as time goes on. It is possible to break something or not get it all the way together before things stop moving. The epoxy doesn't swell the wood, and is very slippery until it sets up. You can actually pull things back apart and put them together again more easily than when you are doing your dry clamp-up before you glue (you do a dry clamp-up, of course!) A word of warning: give the long set epoxy LOTS of time to set before removing clamps, or even moving the piece, if possible, as it can creep significantly until it is completely set up. Nothing like coming into the shop the next morning to find that a couple pieces creeped out of place and the epoxy is hard. Another tip (I hope you don't ever need): acetone softens epoxy given a bit of time (as advised by the glue company's tech guy). I had to drill tiny holes into the mortise and tenon joints and inject acetone for a day or two to soften the epoxy, but I did get it back apart. Removed the old epoxy and reglued successfully. Left the clamps on a LONG time that time!
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